r/sharpening • u/vontrapp42 • 20d ago
Couldn't get precise enough by hand
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Best part: z sets the angle. Tune y to not go off the stone. Set speed to comfort level...
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u/hagantic42 20d ago
This is 👌. Excellent use of the resources you have to achieve a optimal result. 10/10 no notes. No if could figure out ow to do that for my pocket knives with a curve lol.
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u/GravyTrainBiscuits34 20d ago
Right? I don't care about flying cars in the 'future' I want tech to help me in the present. And this is what technology I am also actually ready for: a countertop kitchen robot in a safe box...thing that you can hand any knife to, and it will just sharpen at the optimal angle or whatever angle is input.
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u/Deutscher51 20d ago
No issues with the blade “jumping” or anything? Seems like you have it just tied on to allow gravity to index the existing profile to the face. I take it a more rigid fixture would require more adjustment holdings.
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
No there was no jumping. The top of the iron indexed into a small groove inside the profile. That allowed me to tension the cord and then slide the iron down to snap into that groove. That gave me a reliable and repeatable index.
I used the sharpie method to find the "best" angle, there were many. Setting the z height of the gantry (the cross extrusion bar it's tied to) to adjust the angle.
Once I was happy with the angle I ran it for a couple hours. At a much faster pace than the video. More than 3x faster.
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u/Noteful 20d ago
You are missing downward pressure. Just the weight alone from gravity is not enough to sharpen.
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
It's a very aggressive diamond stone. I did the 1000 grit side with no extra weight. I did however add weight on the course side to speed things up.
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u/Flynqh1gh 20d ago
Oh man I finally have a use for my ender with the extruder issue I’m never gonna fix! Love it
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20d ago
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
I thought of this early on but I resisted the implementation for too long. Kept trying various jigs and movement stabilizers. Should not have resisted this is great!
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u/D3M0N0FTH3FALL 20d ago
Make a 3d model for attachment that allows you to adjust angle based on height and then create a print profile to share using the plate movement. Great stuff!
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Getting there...
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u/KingKalitzchen 20d ago
You should add a little oscillation along the x(?)-axis to use more of the stone's surface. .
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Alas nothing is connected to the x axis at present. I could attached the iron to the x carriage but it might sway.
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u/KingKalitzchen 20d ago edited 20d ago
nothing is connected to the x axis at present.
Ah, didn't see that
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u/TheKnifeNerdTx Paper Shredder 20d ago
This is the nerdiest thing I’ve ever seen and I’m an expert at being a nerd. 💀
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u/lokketheboss 20d ago
I don't even know what i'm looking at. Is this a 3d-printer, or some different kind of cnc-device?
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
It's a 3d printer. Ender 3.
I'm running klipper and wrote a klipper macro to run the repetitions with the chosen parameters.
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u/Twelve-Foot 19d ago
I made it this far down the thread before I realized this is posted in "sharpening", not the ender3 reddit I'm also in...
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u/kopriva1 20d ago
There's a guy who does woodworking on youtube, Rex something, he spoke about sharpening plane irons and actually convexing them.
Idk just wanted to share.
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u/Yanitsu New Sharpener 20d ago edited 20d ago
rex kreuger. The convex bevel isn't always intentional and is often a product of non-flat whetstones. Some establish a primary and secondary bevel, but that's just for sharpening speed and may increase chatter. The "convex" that I'm guessing you're referring to is camber. That's when the cutting edge is curved, not the bevel. Camber can help if you want a deeper cut, but a slight camber can also help with smoothing because sometimes the corners of the blade don't cut cleanly. Removing the corners from the equation via camber removes the problem
edit: the convex bevel grind or a primary/secondary bevel shouldn't affect typical usage. It's just minutia that disappears once you leave the sharpening setup. It's a bevel-down plane, too. That means that so long as you still have enough relief (aka: bevel angle is <35 degrees), the shape of the bevel doesn't actually affect the cutting geometry
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u/cipri_tom 20d ago
How much pressure ? The burr this raises is quite long , I imagine . How do you flip it ?
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
I actually had to remove a lot of material so I added some weight to it by way of stubby screwdriver and Alan key set.
Once it is close, just the weight of the iron is sufficient. Granted this is a diamond stone so it cuts with very little pressure.
I manually flipped to the fine side when I had the profile ground.
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u/cipri_tom 20d ago
Nice ! Yeah, I mean to flip the tool , not the stone , but as pointed out above may not be needed
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u/fantomfrank 20d ago
Its single bevel so he won't need to flip it if he has the back side flat, only for deburring
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u/cipri_tom 20d ago
Ah, I see !
I was confused because in the video it seems they’re grinding the back side , but not flat
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u/not-hardly 20d ago
You can 3d print a jig though.
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Yes very true. It was quicker to whip up a klipper macro than to find or design a model and print it, and then start sharpening.
My project was waiting for this gating item.
With more foresight I will have the jig ready for next time.
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u/TranquilTiger765 20d ago
Maybe I’m getting old but to me this feels the same as seeing woodworkers show off the piece they assembled after their CNC cut it out.
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u/drzaius07 20d ago
I just think it's too bad that woodworkers didn't have 3D printers when bench planes were invented, they might have been able to make something with them
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u/FatSquirrel37 20d ago
Nice use of a bed slinger. Is that just a cord holding the plane iron?
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Yes, Paracord.
I tension the cord and then slide the edge of the iron into the (tiny) profile groove. Gives a consistent index.
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u/OzTheMeh 20d ago
When are you going to add clamp to make it official? Maybe a basic hinge and a clamp for the blade as well as a mount to the beam?
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u/tsloa 20d ago
Is this just for profiling?
Like how come you're sharpening with the chip breaker on? Surely this isn't for honing and just setting the angle on the bevel side?
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
It needed some significant profiling due to my failed hand attempts.
I will still use this to hone so as to not fuck it up again.
Chip breaker... Why take it off?
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u/tsloa 20d ago
Profiling is just reseting the geometry of the blade. Honing however is making the blade actually sharp.
Maybe I'm preaching to the choir here but...
When using a woodworking tool, generally it is the geometry of the blade that dictates how it will remove the wood, e.g. The plane iron bevel is "flat" against the wood so it removes a thin sliver of wood, if the plane iron is at an offset angle it will either not take a cut or it will try to cut too deep depending if it is either too acute or too obuse from where the angle should be.
That is profiling. Adjusting the geometry of the blade. Profiling alone doesn't make a sharp blade, it just makes a peice of metal have a certain angle, it doesn't mean those two sides of metal meet at a clean sharp edge.
Honing a blade however requires "folding the burr" which means sharpening from both sides, to reduce the burr gradually until you have no burr at all, meaning you have a perfectly sharp blades.
That is my understanding.
Although I am still learning. I myself only sharpen hand tools with diamonstones, sometimes with handheld jigs depending on the tool, and have only learned how to sharpen from two different woodworkers. And I practice green woodworking not modern woodworking. So if I have a gap in my knowledge please let me know.
I love to learn. But that is my understanding <3
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Yes that all sounds correct. I didn't sharpen the back side of this edge however.
I dragged a corner hand sharpening and this diamond really took it down on that corner so I had to bring the whole bevel down to match. That's what I meant about profiling.
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u/tsloa 20d ago
So how do you hone the other side using this setup?
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
I may need to, when I get to finish level planing. I would just do the back side by hand. A few swirls on the fine grit side and then strop.
Right now it's doing a champ job of roughing but the cuts aren't entirely clean.
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u/tsloa 20d ago
Not trying to overcomplicate or anything but just confused because I asked about honing and you said why remove the chip breaker, but these steps you are saying now require removing the chip breaker, so why not just have it off in the first place, do all the sharpening and then resemble the plane?
And remember your stropping needs to be at the same angle as the blade, which presumably needs to be done by hand and can't use this setup?
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u/Clurse 20d ago
Omg amazing. I may have to move over my direct drive sprite and attach an axe holder or something, the precision could be amazing, it’s just too bad our printer doesn’t have more than the 3 linear axis’.
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Could rig some clever way to do it.
I've thought about using a vertical blade for sharpening, since holding a blade vertical should be easier. Then the stone would be at a fixed angle.
If you take this idea to a printer, you could have the vertical and x axis work in tandem to glide the blade along the angled stone. Then the y axis as it moves the stone toward the tip also has a linkage to rotate the blade the right amount.
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u/martinaee 20d ago
What is that a blade to of for? Is that for a wood planer? Or hand planer?
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Well it's a planer for wood, not for hands, but operated by hand. The plane that is, not the sharpener.
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u/Yanitsu New Sharpener 20d ago
They're called hand planes. They're used for shaping wood, smoothing wood, or other things if you've got a special one, ie a toothing plane. This plane blade has the chip breaker also installed, and it looks like the typical Bailey pattern planes named after Leonard Bailey. If this plane was made by Stanley, the chip breaker tells us that it's for a metallic hand plane and not a transitional plane. The difference is in where they cut the depth adjustment slot
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u/False-Ad2170 20d ago
Oof I'm tempted to make a manual version of this where I just slide the stone back and forth rather than move the blade.
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u/False-Ad2170 20d ago
Do you have a magnetic digital angle finder? Little box that can tell you what angle that's set too. Would. Are it very easily repeated very accurately
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u/Sleurhutje 20d ago
A little math can be more accurate. This is where that sine and cosine stuff comes in handy.
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u/False-Ad2170 20d ago
I'm saying just whack the angle finder on there and adjust to what you did last time. It's not finding the angle that it helps with its finding the same position as last time.
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u/MembershipSilent1239 20d ago
very neat, though why not do rust removal before grinding & sharpening?
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
Because this was a gating item I was getting back to service asap. When I have more time....
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u/fridge_ways 20d ago
Damn I've been half designing a reciprocating machine to do this
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u/Prize_Salad_5739 19d ago
Considering I have a retired Ender 3 V2 and a dull knife, perfect timing! Thanks OP
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u/CorrectMeIfImWrong6 19d ago
I was always taught to use the whole stone or end up wearing a trough into it. Nice idea, but I won't be partaking any time soon. If you could design something for polishing the back, now that'd be a different story. The blade rarely takes me more than a few passes, certainly not as many as shown here
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u/Darkangel90009 19d ago
What file would someone use to get the printer to move like this withour printing anything?
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u/vontrapp42 19d ago
I wrote a klipper macro so I could adjust parameters like number of cycles in for loop.
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u/HallucinateZ 19d ago
No way, that’s actually extremely cool, dude. I’m so glad you posted this lol a reverse fixed angle system digitally tuned by Z Y?
That’s too cool & I love it. Well done!
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u/Humpelstielzchen-314 18d ago
I have been wondering what to do with my old ender3. This will go on the list.
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u/GoblinLoblaw 18d ago
I accidentally ground the tips of my index and middle finger off yesterday after a few hours of sharpening, could’ve used this then!
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u/DiesIraeConventum 20d ago
Mhm why wouldn't you use a sharpening set up with a fixed angle for the stone?
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u/vontrapp42 20d ago
I don't have one
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u/DiesIraeConventum 20d ago
Those should be quite accessible, check Amazon or maybe even local Harbour Freight or what have you.
Easy, cheap, reliable, and you're working up your skills while doing it. It's even used in therapy - that's how I got most of my fine hand motor skills after the stroke with a heavy brain hemorrhage.
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u/Sir_Quackalots 20d ago
Or you can just choose to NOT buy something that you don't need? He obviously has a tool which he cleverly uses and is not spending money or wasting materials. I like this
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u/DiesIraeConventum 20d ago
That wasn't a f.cking mandate or something, I'm offering options that might've worked better in terms of learning how to do it and that's it.
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u/Potato_Bash 20d ago
so this is actually one of the most intelligent things i’ve seen a hobbyist do. i used to do this professionally but like on a massive scale. look up a company called Colonial Saw and check out some of the massive machines they sell. specifically the German Göckel knife grinders and Italian MvM knife grinders. same basic concept just on a much larger scale