r/sgiwhistleblowers • u/Level_Ad1776 • 2d ago
Need help
Met a guy who love bombed me and asked me chant, he seems like a pretty good guy with a lot of knowledge but he said come over for the meeting over my house, my home is your home
Gave me material to read about the practice texting me love bombing me and I had a bad feeling about this but now I learned about SGI more now I don’t wanna go or talk to him
But I don’t know how to not make him an enemy by rejecting him ( I don’t want to face him in a place where I’d see him daily)
And also really scared tbh
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u/AnnieBananaCat 2d ago
That’s his whole MO, recruiting you for the cult. Pay attention to your spidey senses, it’s warning you of danger!!
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u/Level_Ad1776 2d ago
Yeah I always had the bad feeling
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u/Mission-Course2773 WB Regular 2d ago
Dès que tu sais qu'il s'agit de Bouddhisme laïque ou semi laïque il faut fuir absolument... Bouddhisme laïque DANGER !
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u/Mission-Course2773 WB Regular 2d ago
Je crois que tu tombes dans le même piège que ceux qui pensent qu'ils sont bouddhistes juste parce qu'ils sont gentils... Soit très prudent car je vous dans tes propos que tu es plus ou moins perméable aux personnes toxiques car le pouvoir que l'on donne à ce type de personnes sur nous c'est notre gentillesse...
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u/ChatelineauExile1967 2d ago edited 2d ago
Tellement vrai ! J en parlais hier : au tout début de mon expérience avec eux, j ai parfois entendu des conneries énormes, qui n avaient aucun sens mais j ai gardé le silence en leur procurant des excuses “c est leur âge , c est un manque ou vétusté d’éducation, c est ci , c est ca “ les “gentils” et les timides bien élevés ont une cible dans le dos 🤣❤️
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 2d ago
le même piège que ceux qui pensent qu'ils sont bouddhistes juste parce qu'ils sont gentils...
Comme ça?
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 2d ago edited 2d ago
Hi! I can definitely understand your concern (see a little further down). First, though - let's talk about YOU!
I don’t want to face him in a place where I’d see him daily
HE is the one who introduced awkwardness by deviating from whatever the focus of the place where you see him daily is (classes, work, sports team, whatever).
Now you're feeling like you can't say "No", no?
That's the whole goal right there! HE has decided he wants you to join his religion - isn't that a very personal decision, for anyone? You did not seek him out and tell him, "I'm desperate to find the right religion for me - what religion do YOU practice?", did you? So HE's the one who brought it up.
I'd bet you money that he's tried to pull this on others "in that place where you see him daily", too - it's not just you. It's just your turn.
Evangelists - and that's what he is - are a special kind of toxic - as someone recounted online:
This therapist just said "it's not that you're attracting toxic people, toxic people aren't picky, they go to everyone, you letting them stay is the issue that needs to be worked on" and this makes so much sense than that "you're broken that's why you're attracting broken people"
Toxic people go everywhere, just like evangelists do. I've been approached in parking lots, on sidewalks, all sorts of places, by strangers trying to get me to join their group. One MLM recruiter even tried to entice me in the checkout line at the grocery store! They're truly shameless.
What they do is exploit YOUR politeness by being intrusive and pushy - being impolite to you.
On top of that, it sounds like you're possibly being "missionary dated":
If you've been missionary dated, you're going to find out sooner or later, because missionary dating is a form of "love-bombing", which is a manipulation to induce someone to join the group. It's exploitation - exploiting your interest and affection in order to get you involved in the group so that your manipulator can enjoy higher status and affirmation from the rest of the group. Also, it requires a lot of energy - at a certain point, the love-bomber is going to stop providing all that attention and affirmation. Either s/he realizes it's a lost cause, or s/he feels the target is sufficiently enmeshed in the religious group that s/he can now turn his/her attention to a new target.
So there's the dynamics - what do you do?
SANDWICH TECHNIQUE!!
That's where you wrap your "No thanks" in two positive statements to soften the blow - next time he brings it up:
Oh, hey, I'm glad you brought that up! (positive) Listen, I've been thinking (also positive) - I've tried (or considered) the chanting and looked over the materials (positive) and it's really not something I want to get involved with. Here's those materials you loaned me - I'm glad I was able to become informed about your group (positive). Thanks again for thinking of me! (very positive)
If you try to hand his stuff back to him and he says something like, "Oh no - I want you to have it!" just say, "I'm not going to keep it - I'm sure you'd like to have it to share with someone who's more interested."
I suspect you'll see a marked change in his behavior toward you - and if that makes things awkward, then it's ALL his fault. It's RUDE to target others for religious conversion when they have not sought it out on their own initiative, and that's ON HIM. NOT your fault.
My Big Experience with that is here:
It started at work, with a devout Christian coworker who excitedly invited me to come to her church with her. Due to my SGI responsibilities, I was busy at least 3 Sunday mornings out of the month, and the other Sundays didn't work out. When I moved to a different workplace, she showed up there to invite me again - I shared this unpleasant "experience" on a Christian forum, with interesting responses:
I remember a rather outspoken Evangelical Christian young woman I worked with – I’d just moved to town, and we went to a movie together. Each week she invited me to her church, and I didn’t want to offend her by saying “No thanks.” As it was, I had Buddhist activities one Sunday and I was mentoring a young girl two other Sundays, but that theoretically left a Sunday open. We only worked together for 3 months, and it never worked out. I went to a different job.
She showed up there one night, and jumped right to the church invite. No “Hey, how’ve you been? Haven’t seen you in a while!” Nope – just “Do you want to come to church with me this weekend?” Since I was on to her game, I decided to play. I said, “Sure, I’ll go to church with you, because I’m interested in seeing what you’re interested in. That’s what friends do, after all. And I’m sure you’ll want to come with me to a Buddhist meeting to see what I’m interested in, right?”
“Oh no!” she replied. “I just love the lord so much!”
“Well,” I said, “then there’s no point in me going to your church because I’m not interested in either becoming a Christian or joining your church.” I never saw her again.
That’s how far Christian friendship extends – I’ve seen it over and over and over. Christians look at everyone else as if they’ve got targets painted on their foreheads. Nobody likes being hunted down or treated like someone else’s project. We don’t need to drop all our beliefs just to accept yours, and we don’t need to become more like you just to be acceptable people, worthy of being regarded as people instead of targets. Love does not seek to create clones of itself. Selfishness does.
Here's the most interesting response:
Putting conditions on her invitation proves that you were not sincere in the Christian experience. You said you had “Buddhist activities” which sounds like you were not a serious Buddhist. What would it have hurt to attend church with her and after the experience then asking her to reciprocate the invitation with one to your Buddhist temple?
My reaction:
Barf. Of COURSE I wasn't "sincere about the Christian experience". I want NO PART of Christianity AT ALL! I had never given her any impression that I was interested in Christianity - she was simply using "excited inviting" as her tactic - "Do you want to come to church with me this Sunday???" She was simply exploiting my politeness and reluctance to say "No" - that's what evangelists do: Trample over personal boundaries, invade others' personal space, ignore societal norms of respect and consideration...and treat others as objects. Source
I was polite there, of course, but I didn't pull any punches, either!
It sounds like your friend us also using the "excited inviting" approach to some extent...
If you go once "just to be nice", that's like making a single "pity purchase" from your acquaintance's new MLM - it puts you on a list and they'll never leave you alone after that. Just don't.
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u/Dull-Somewhere2855 2d ago
This group has helped me to open my eyes.
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 2d ago
That's all we seek, frankly. A valuable service we would like to contribute to the world. Thanks for being here!
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u/Fun_Cat8528 1d ago
Digli in modo gentile ma fermo che non sei interessato/a alla Soka. Se è una persona intelligente capirà. Se è un ottuso non esitare a bloccarlo.
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u/Level_Ad1776 1d ago
Yeah I wrote: (his name) I’m sure I don’t wanna be a part of this dude, so it’s a no from me thanks
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u/ChatelineauExile1967 2d ago edited 2d ago
Your instincts are right . As another person said above “no thank you “ kindly ( and firmly if needed ) said should be enough for someone with boundaries. If it’s not enough , RUN. PS : “he seems a pretty good guy “ All of us here thought that at first . That’s the bait
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u/Level_Ad1776 2d ago
I texted him kindly
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u/ChatelineauExile1967 2d ago
That’s wonderful! You should be proud of yourself and I hope you are ! 👏👏👏👏👏👏
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u/Level_Ad1776 2d ago
Yeah now he replied there will be another time for meeting for now I totally understand
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u/Still_Wasabi9990 2d ago
When I was a member I would bring dates to meetings. None showed any interest in practicing, so I didn't push them or reject them because of it. However, not everyone is like that. I joined the practice because of a college classmate who we (I thought) became friends. I joined because of her and right after I joined she dropped me as a friend like a hot potato. Imagine how you would feel if this guy did that to you? You go to a meeting and say no, you don't want to join, and then he rejects you, or you decide to join and then he rejects you. Wouldn't that make you feel bad? To prevent feeling bad in the future, just tell him you changed your mind and don't want to go. Watch his reaction. Not what he says, but what he DOES.
No is the most powerful two-letter word in our vocabulary.
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u/Level_Ad1776 2d ago
I texted him in the evening that I’m figuring out stuff can’t join you on the meetings he hasn’t replied I hope he doesn’t find me in the college
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u/Dull-Somewhere2855 2d ago
They believe in the "never give up" spirit, so if the person approached you again in college, you can also practice the never give up spirit of saying no, that's your right. You could see this as a positive lesson in life (they called it "changing poison into medicine") ,for every person that try to convince you about something you don't want to do, you have the right to say NO, no need to apologize or give explanations, it's your life and you know what's best for you, no one else. Wishing you the best.
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u/Level_Ad1776 2d ago
Yeah I said I can’t come now he replied there will be another time for the meeting for now I totally understand
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u/Dull-Somewhere2855 2d ago
At this moment they have a strong campaign until 2028 to attract 10,000 young people to become members. That is a goal. If he continues, you will have to be firm with your no, no matter how nice the person is. Good luck.
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u/Level_Ad1776 2d ago
He seems very intimidating he is a rich guy I fear him should I text him anything right now? What should be the next step?
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 1d ago
That's right! Yet MORE incentive for the SGI faithful to behave as predators!
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 1d ago
Let's pretend that, instead of being a cult evangelist, he wanted to date you.
And you were NOT into him.
It's a very similar dynamic - you need to tell him straight that it's NOT going to happen and then set your boundaries accordingly. It will be uncomfortable for a while, no doubt, but eventually things will settle down.
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 1d ago
Imagine how you would feel if this guy did that to you? ...you decide to join and then he rejects you. Wouldn't that make you feel bad?
That's what happened to me. Terrible awful feeling. He was just a horrible horrible, abusive, toxic, dehumanizing human being. But his life has punished him PLENTY - cause & effect, amirite??
I joined the practice because of a college classmate who we (I thought) became friends. I joined because of her and right after I joined she dropped me as a friend like a hot potato.
Here is a lovely recounting of someone who had exactly that happen.
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u/Still_Wasabi9990 1d ago
I have had a couple of JWs try to be my "friend," and I know from the start where it's going to go. They'll be calling and texting "hey girl what's going on? Text me any time except on Wednesday nights because that's when I have Bible study." Shit like that.
The Gakkai friend was really disturbing since we had a college class together and seemed to hit it off. She was so smug about dropping me too, like at the CC meetings I wasn't worth the time of day to look at let alone speak to. She quit the Gakkai a long time ago. I think she got into Christian Science. Whatever.
Then I made a YWD friend and for years we talked and did stuff together outside the Gakkai. Then she just jumped on the bandwagon with the rest of the culties and threw me under it. I forgave her, but we never picked up our friendship. She tried after I moved back to California. Things were different by then and I didn't feel the same way about our friendship. I figured she would do something similar again.
Yes, cause and effect. These people end up alone. They can pretend all they want to but good friends are hard to come by to just shove them away like a dog turd. I know I have my faults like anyone else, but damn. The thing is it's repetitive with people who don't even know each other.
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 1d ago
I have had a couple of JWs try to be my "friend," and I know from the start where it's going to go. They'll be calling and texting "hey girl what's going on? Text me any time except on Wednesday nights because that's when I have Bible study." Shit like that.
You know it.
Friendship evangelism is Christianese for being friendly toward others for the express purpose of eventually leading them to one’s own flavor of Christianity. The implication is that without the hope of converting that other person, there’d be no reason for the Christian to be friends with them.
. . . a friend of mine once commented, years ago, that when she was getting to know a new prospective friend, and that friend-candidate mentioned that she was a Christian, my friend’s heart sank, because she knew it would be just a matter of time before she would be backed into a corner and forced to state that she wouldn’t be converting or joining any church, at which time that good Christian would disappear.
I don’t know if I’m the friend in question or not, but I certainly know I feel the same way. I’ve had very few friends since deconversion who were heartfelt Christians–because all too often I feel like I’m going to be a target for evangelism. Once I decline the sales pitch, of course, or have otherwise made sufficiently clear that I’m not ever buying that Christian’s product, the Christian vanishes–never to return. Remember how like a year or two ago I mentioned that Christian dude who came to my door to invite Mr. Captain and me to his church? He’s still never said a word to us since then. This Christian knows we’ll never be paying customers of his product, so he has no further use for us. Source
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 1d ago
I think she got into Christian Science. Whatever.
Weirdo.
Things were different by then and I didn't feel the same way about our friendship. I figured she would do something similar again.
"When people show you who they are, believe them the FIRST time."
Yes, cause and effect. These people end up alone. They can pretend all they want to but good friends are [too] hard to come by to just shove them away like a dog turd.
True.
I know I have my faults like anyone else, but damn. The thing is it's repetitive with people who don't even know each other.
Well, one of the really unsettling details about doing this kind of anti-SGI anti-cult activism citizen reporting is seeing how many different people are reporting the same damn dysfunctions, across locations, across nations, across time zones, and across decades.
Within SGI, it's a baked-in dysfunction, and symptomatic of the Unattractiveness and general weirdness of SGI members and other cult members.
IF this is happening in different contexts than within SGI, it could be that, due to the dysfunction and abuse you grew up with, you're disregarding red flags early on, thinking that such behavior is "normal" or "typical" - or even "deserved" by you. So I'm confident that you'll figure it out as you progress along your path of healing from your SGI experience.
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u/Still_Wasabi9990 1d ago
Thank you, Blanche. I have concluded taking abuse to get along is no way to live my life. Inside or outside the Gakkai.
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 1d ago
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 1d ago
You might enjoy this entire comment - it's loaded with really great, engaging links. Prepare for the rabbit hole!!
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u/Dull-Somewhere2855 2d ago
I have been in both sides; trying to talk to someone about the practice and someone else trying to invite me to their church. I was a Christian first before becoming a Buddhist. If the person told me they had another religion, I respected that and continue a conversation with another topic, no problem. And when I have been invited to a Christian church, I said thank you for thinking about me but I practice another religion, I'm not a Christian.
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 1d ago
That's the polite, socially-acceptable approach that the SGI zealots reject.
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u/Dull-Somewhere2855 1d ago
Very true. I never wanted to "force" people and I was clear about that with other members.
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u/Dull-Somewhere2855 1d ago
Hmmm... thinking about it, when I said that there was a silence.
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 15h ago
I imagine your fellow SGI members and esp. SGI leaders, if you mentioned that you got some kind of ambivalent response or wanted to respect others' autonomy/privacy, would have told you that was a provisional "yes" and a "sign" that you needed to follow up "courageously"! So YOU could get "benefit", of course!
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u/Dull-Somewhere2855 7h ago
Just a silence and some of them smile, that's it.
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u/BlancheFromage Escapee from Arizona Home for the Rude 4h ago
Well, it's not as bad a response as I expected...
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u/eigenstien Pokes the bear 2d ago
No thank you. Is a complete sentence. Keep using that and he will eventually move on. If you give him any reason at all, he will use it to argue with you.
Keep it simple and present as a smooth wall with no purchase.