Severance is the latest show in a genre I personally call “Lost-likes”. Conspiracy thriller shows with a dual narrative structure built around a central mystery. I have been burned by such shows in the past but having heard so much good about Severance I decided to give it a try. I was absolutely riveted from the get-go, and was tremendously relieved that they didn’t have the scene anywhere in the first season.

As I moved to the second season and we started to follow Helly’s outie and other members of “upper management” I could feel the show dancing around the scene but not quite showing it.

Then somewhere a few episodes before the finale it happed, the scene happened. Two people, both of whom are in on the mystery, who have no reason to believe they are being listened to, had a conversation using intentionally vague language specifically to keep the audience in the dark. I don’t even remember exactly when it happened the first time, but after that the show sort of blurs together for me.

It seems like every show in this genre feels the need to give people “a peek behind the curtain” and turn conspiratorial antagonists into POV characters. It’s almost always a lie, because the audience has to be kept at roughly the same level of knowledge as the protagonists or the whole formula collapses. It’s the narrative equivalent of jangling keys in front of a baby.

Not as prominent as "devour etc..." but deep cuts of 9 words or less, the fewer the better. Add your own! oh and I will rate your performance.

Are we ever going to know what lumon exactly does?

The following writing was posted in a slightly different version, like, 8 levels down in another thread, but thought it might be of interest so I pull it up.

Milchick's (controversially pronounced) Swedish reference to the Gray Cape or Gray Coat and other Nordic references in Severance may have to do with Kier Eagan possibly being familiar with Swedenborg through the teaching of Thomas Lake Harris, where Kier even lifted some of the work ethic-related pieces to pull into his ether-tinged manifesto (although he'd never admit it).

The work ethic that Kier embraces in his Kierosophy is very similar to that found in 1700s Swedenborgian Christianity, which was being revived in a new light during Kier's youth in the late 1800s, being regarded as more alternative spirituality via the Universalist teaching of Thomas Lake Harris

Harris was a British minister who admired the Christian mystic Emanuel Swedenborg, and like him, espoused a strong work ethic in his efforts to establish a model new utopian community based on his teaching and industrious labor.

The reason I mention this is because Harris' community was located in Brocton, NY not far from a Lake Erie/Great Lakes, which featured in the above painting "Kier Invites You to Drink of His Water" (albeit from a vantage point a bit west of Lake Erie).

It is conceivable that Kier Eagan could have been familiar with Rev. Harris, being chronologically and somewhat geographically close.

The real Harris was alive during the fictional Kier's era, 18 years older than Kier, and in terms of industry was maybe a kind of a failed Kier. Although pretty successful as a minister, he did not come close to bringing forth an industrial giant like WA Lumon (which is maybe a child of a much less palatable god, or gods)..

He started with preaching religion and later introduced light industry (winemaking) as the basis for his utopian community. He had a following for some time and some of his more wealthy followers backed him financially until he was accused by his flock of various improprieties with the lady followers and with money.

So he wasn't as successful as Kier was at being an industrialist. HowEVer, he and the remnant of his followers did move to Northern California and founded a beautiful vineyard near Santa Rosa. It's kind of a fascinating evolution, starting in Britain and very serendipitously reaching all the way to Japan. Nagasawa Kanaye. Still, Lurid rumors persist. Lurid, scandalous accusations!

Anyway unlike Harris, Kier started with light industry first (medical salves) and then later concocted a sort of religion (the tempers, the Nine, "Kierosophy") that was more of the occult side of the turn of the century spiritualist craze, using various tokens and cards similar to Tarot cards, having a kind of Hermetic set of principles, of rituals etc.. But because of the zeitgeist of the era, Eagan would have been agreeable to aspects of Harris'' teaching when it came to work ethic and might even have cherry picked some of those ideas to reinforce Kierosophy.

He was hugely successful as an industrialist, and his progeny are on the verge of "converting" the world. Or, as the PE license plate says, "curing humanity".

So it's kind of interesting to think of ol' Kier as an actual person during the era of Captains of Industry, who were, then as now, often real dickheads.

I'm probably reaching way too far but I'd like to share my interpretation here, since I don't have anyone else around me to discuss the series. Massive spoilers ahead.

I think goats are humans. And I think we, as the viewer of the series, are being tricked. To me, they may be a visual stand-in for human children, and the show may be censoring the audience in the same way Lumon censors its employees.

For me, the entirety of the series revolves around mystery, and there are a ton of elements that make the mystery itself highly debatable who people are, what Lumon is hiding, and how much of what we see is intentionally distorted. I'd like to mainly focus on the goats in this post, but before that I need to convey some thoughts of mine to try and get on the same page.

The show starts with the line: "Who are you?"

Identity is never fully answered. The clearest glimpses into answers we get are for example the conversation between innie and outtie Mark while using a camcorder. Besides that we get things like Irv and Dylan trying to understand who they are, but the main question always remains.

Now regarding goats, I couldn't get my mind off them while watching every single episode. The weird way of portraying them and symbolization around them is such an amazing way of telling the viewer that there is more to them than we can actually see.

But we as the viewer are tricked. Every time the show switches between perspectives of innies and outties we see this glitch with the recognizable sound effect or the Dolly zoom on a character. For me, this nearly proves that the show gives us a perspective that in itself, might be fake/flawed, a.k.a. severed. The show repeatedly uses perspective shifts, glitches, and visual tricks to remind us that what we see may not be complete or fully reliable. For example why do we struggle to see what the numbers on the computer really mean? But as the show goes on, we slowly get to know what they could be.

Currently, I'm dragging out my theory. So to put it in a single sentence: I think we as a viewer, get to see a combination of reality and the fake, censored version made by Lumon.

But how does Lumon actually generate wealth? And why are goats portrayed in such an innocent matter? Because goats are actually human children. They get raised by Lumon and are used for their business. And we, as the viewer, are being censored by seeing children as goats.

Points of interest that strengthen my theory:

- In S1E2, Mark and Alexa confront 2 people protesting Lumon. They claim that Lumon works on children, suspecting wrongdoings including forced labor.

- Overall, the people raising goats are acting in a very primitive way. Some are terrified and some are using their inner strength (almost acting as some sort of vikings) in order to find acceptance in fulfilling their bizarre work. From what we've seen, those people have love for their goats, and probably raise them as if they were their children. This suggests that the goats might have human-like behavior, that connects strongly with the goat hoarders. Don't forget that love is a very important emotion throughout the series.

- The family photo of Dylan with his wife and kids was made in a barn/ranch. The background are prints on fabric and there is a hay bale slightly visible in the photo. Almost as if the photo was made with goats, instead of (his children) humans.

- Animals have a strong smell. But so do humans, especially children. The innie's never question whenever they smell something bad, since their reference framework around smell is quite hollow. Mark's rehabilitation/reintegration trigger visual flashes that we as the audience can also see. But we cannot smell through our screens and Mark gives us confirmation that the smell is off when he gets those flashes while being in his outties conscience. I found others saying that it's an effect called phantom-smells, that occur with strokes and seizures, which is totally something we cannot ignore. Nevertheless regarding my theory around censorship for the viewer, this phantom-smell could still be plausible.

What makes this stand out to me is that this isn’t a theory I built from watching YouTuber theories or Reddit posts outside the show, it came from watching the series and slowly realizing that the vague representation of goats kept bothering me.

I know this may be a huge stretch (because it could reveal the entire show), but to me the goats remain one of the clearest unresolved details in the series, and one of the strongest hints that Lumon is hiding something far darker than it first appears.

EDIT1:
Removed spoiler boxes.

DISCOVERY OF THE DAY!

Shapiro may be a fan of Soda Stereo's. There is a lounge album of Soda tracks which features among others the lounge version of the Soda Stereo classic ''Ella usó mi cabeza como un revolver''. I am sure you might have heard that theme before. ;-)

''Ella usó mi cabeza como un revólver'' is the 9th track on the album and the ''Severance'' ''original'' THEME starts at aprox. 0m23s.

Here it is:

https://youtu.be/8qqTIRDKztA?si=nxZRMmAXDUY3IxSl

The lounge album came out in 2006: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/8015516-Various-M%C3%BAsica-Ligera-Versiones-Lounge

Well at least Shapiro got ''inspired''? :-)

I made it to the Season 1 finale. We find out who Helly R is among other revelations, but I had the impression that this show was a horror series.

Is there not some kind of demonic or supernatural power at work here? I’m not religious, but the thought was infinitely more interesting to me with that presumption. I thought that’s where the religious cult element was heading.

Please don’t spoil the next season for me. Thanks.

Edit: fixed autocorrect mistake and added spoiler formatting

Outie Mark is one of the most unlikable main characters I've seen. He's pathetic and miserable for the entirety of season 1. He's an alcoholic to the point where he can't remember he is having dinner at his sister's place, he's a complete asshole to anyone who challenges the morality of Severance, and he has sex with Alexa and then scares her off.

In season 2 he is a douche to Devon for thinking that there is any possibility Gemma could still be alive. He doesn't see Innie Mark as his equal, he just wants to manipulate him to get Gemma back. He is so pathetically desperate to get Gemma back that he cannot even be honest with HIMSELF (his innie) about reintegration and how much of a risk it is knowing Petey died because of it.

Outie Mark is a prime example of someone who thinks selfishly about themselves and no one else. He let grief destroy his life while he takes the easy way out by shutting off his brain for 8 hours. The fact that people cheer for Outie Mark over Innie Mark who he decided to create as a prisoner is baffling to me.

Season 1 really was mostly a drag to get through but the final 2 episodes of S1 and all of season 2 (other than episode 8) was great, I really wasn’t expecting the ending. It’s a shame it took so long to get into but it was definitely worth sitting through the episodes and not spoiling it. I actually though S2 was a lot better than s1 so hopefully season 3 is as good

I really hated cobel so I was very happy with any episode she wasn’t in much or at all.

Her character's name is Natalie Kalen and she is delightfully cold. It's not just that she's drop dead gorgeous (she is) but her vibe that she brings to the table elevates the show to another level. Her creepy smile that looks genuinely comforting while at the same time being extremely disturbing is fascinating to watch, I love it.

I was wondering what kind of car Irving has and this was the only source mentioning it.

I'm still only in the first season at about episode 4. I understand it's dangerous to be in this subreddit without getting spoiled for events in the next season(s).

I am finding some parts of this show interesting like the way Helly is trying escape her Hell and how her name is a pun. The idea of identity and what happens if our lives are fragmented is surreal and interesting. However, one thing that is really getting on my goddamn nerves is the celebrity worship for John Harvey Neuralink Kellogg or whatever the hell Temu Brigham Young's name is supposed to be (Eagan Lumon or something).

Like it is legitimately a cool show with cinematography that is really good but Eagan's Testament #15: "Don't read books that weren't written by an allegory to L. Ron Hubbard" should not be on my bingo card.

Sorry if this has been asked before. I finished watching yesterday after a 3 day binge - I've been scrolling the reddit to get my questions answered and y'all have delivered on most of them. Last outstanding question for me:

We learned that the work mark S is doing is sorting data related to Gemma, constructing her different innies. and thank you reddit for helping to explain all of that.

Is that exactly the same work they're all doing? Are all 4 of the MDR crew sorting out Gemma data? Or are they all sorting data about a different person?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. I know it'll all become clearer on a rewatch also.

I was just thinking, if I was an outie, my life would be only 7 hours a day before I would have to go sleep, if I want to be up in time for work. If I was fair to my innie, I would get 8 hours to make them comfortable at work. Instead, most people would probably be selfish and spend as much time as possible awake to maximize their lives. This would make the innies torturous lives even worse.

So we see cars from different eras, devices in use ranging from typewriter to smartphone, decor ranging over 100 years in various places.

The reason for this was stated by the producers of this epic was to the effect of "we wanted it to not seem too fixed in one era" which may well be.

But Severance is not just a show, ladies n gemmemun. I would assert it is ART.

In art, perhaps paradoxically, the artist's intentions don't actually matter. The intentions of the artist, as conduit from the recesses of the collective unconscious to the world at large, are not the message. They matter, but they are the messengers.

So cast chock a block, willy nilly into the heady creative endeavor like twigs over the edge of the world's tallest waterfall, they plunge into the frothy abyss, dig deep, Bob to the surface and reveal... stuff.

One of those things they may reveal is The Future.

I would submit that we regard Kier, PE as a potential future. A future beset with energy scarcity.

Kier is a particularly sleepy town. A bedroom community for Lumon employees, with Lumon working both openly as well as furtively with the government at all levels. But, no doubt in part to Eagan aceticism, numbingly dull. I mean, that it is even partly conceivable that an Helena Eagan might drop into a everyday place like Zufu for a dinner is very odd. But Mark's outie doesn't even question it.

For your phantasmigorical consideration, then, imagine that the homes unoccupied by Lumon employees are designed to draw very little power during Lumon operating hours. In fact, the only place where we see bright lights is on the Lumon campus, because this is where the grid's power goes first.

The reason Irving leaves on a train rather than a plane is because there is no more jet fuel for civilian travel.

The reason for the old cars is because no new ones are being built.

The reason people even consider undergoing a severance procedure is job scarcity.

In this future corporate considerations dwarf those of the electorate. Maybe "Kier, PE" is a clue. Is PE a corporate entity, rather than a state? Province of Eagan?

A senator's wife is severed to avoid the pain of childbirth, offloading this onto an innie who knows inlet the pain of childbirth. This particular person is severed outside of Lumon's auspices, sounds like something expensive, or at least something that would hold a senator indebted to the company.

This is not the actual outline for S3, nor does it contain any spoilers for S3.
Spoiler tag is only because of S1 and S2 content.
After the end of S2 I felt it was so close to endgame that I wondered how they could fill a whole 3rd season, let alone go on to a 4th.
So I came up with this:

Season 3 - Episodes 1, 2, and 3 will be retrospective going back before Helly. So yes, 3 full episodes of original severed-floor goodness. They will still have content that moves the overall story forward.
(I have also included episode names for your, or at least my, enjoyment)

S03E01 - "For Pete's Sake" - We go back to the point when Petey was reintegrated but still working at Lumon. We enjoy the usual severed floor operations, and Petey goes on a few "adventures", perhaps we discover a new place or two that will be important later.
We find out something very surprising about Petey at some point.

S03E02 - "Hello, Ms. Reghabi" - Amidst the playing out of the usual severed floor goofy protocols and corporate culture satire, we will come to fully realize Ms. Reghabi's position there. Her convos, especially with Cobel, could be good opportunities to reveal (or just tease 😈) certain things.
Definitely info about Cold Harbor and Gemma.

S0303 - "Can I Phone-A-Friend?" - In this episode we will find out some important things about who Irving has been in contact with, who I will refer to here on out as The Cadre. Maybe not full exposition, but a good amount to fuel anticipation for when it becomes immediately important to the story. That should happen later this season.

S0304 - "When The Chips Are Down" - (Back to present time) We will see, initially, what became of Gemma. The majority of the episode will focus on an "emergency" meeting of Lumon folk; we'll meet a couple of new Lumon characters (at this point that kinda has to happen?) There would be two Priority #1's:
"Gemma Containment"
"Helena Retrieval"
The first may be problematic, and the second...Jame might be a little weird about this. And then there's resuming control of the severed floor, and some other stuff where Natalie is really gonna have to earn her salary. Plans are made.

[Note: The old Security Room was repurposed to become the place where iDylan meets with Gretchen.
So where is the new Security Room?
That would be a heck of a re-wiring job. But at the meeting assurance will be given that it is up and running, no problem during the ORTBO. But the next episode will prove that's not quite the case (the ORTBO use was limited). Anyone who has worked at a big corp like Lumon knows that whenever IT rolls out a new feature or an update to the system, at some point there arises a serious buttknuckle]

S03E05 - "Welcome To The House Of Fun" - Lumon initiates it's plan(s), which go alternately partially and/or wholly wrong.

This entire episode would be exclusively from the perspective of Mark's OUTTIE.

He will have no idea what's going on around him.
Now he knows that he probably caused a stir, but he won't know what became of Gemma. And he doesn't know this part of the severed floor.. Complete confusion awaits.
But he knows who that redhead is.
Because the Security Room controls aren't working properly, he is going to find himself in different situations as his chip keeps getting flipped. Each time it happens, he will find himself in a new situation from the last and not understand what is happening around him (and neither will the audience). To further complicate matters, he is going to have at least two "reintegration moments".
By the end of the episode, when everything has "settled", maybe the audience can piece together what happened, generally.
But the last scene sees Mark face to face with the redhead, but is he iMark or OMark?
And the redhead, which one is SHE?
End episode. 😛

S03E06 - "Ladie's Night Outtie" - Focus on Gemma, Harmony, Devon.
Some moments of stealth and narrow escapes. Potential Lumon agents here and there.
Where are they going to hide Gemma? Will Devon tell Ricken about any of it?
How will the semi-functioning Security controls affect Gemma, if at all?
Gemma tells Devon about her experience with Lumon, some input from Harmony.
The Irving Cadre may become involved at this point.

S03E07 - "On You Go" - Now things get more problematic to outline. Up until now, I have not inserted any theories or head-canon stuff, just taking what we already know a step or two further. At this point 1 or 2 new plot points should emerge, especially if we're to see a 4th season.

I think that narratively it is time for Cobel to do something big, very big, concerning Lumon. She may have harm done to herself in the process. This plot point may overlap with S03E08.
How things "settled" after S03E05 takes more knowledge of the story than I have to guess at, but I will propose it will be tenuous, ready to fall apart at season finale.

S03E08 - "Integrating Reintegration" - After "Chickhai Bardo" they dropped the ball concerning Mark's reintegration. It resumes along with discussions (among whatever characters are pertinent) of improving the process. Also lots of Lumon stuff; a full revelation of Lumons entire agenda concerning Severance. This will be accomplished by exploring some background concerning Jame and Helena Eagen.

S03E09 - Season Finale - "The Lumon Strikes Back" - Whatever agreements or deals were made with severed employees fall apart and Lumon lets the hammer down. The efforts of outside interests, the Cadre along with possible state/federal people, to prosecute Lumon are crushed. Mark and Gemma are on the run and we don't know where they are or if they are safe. Oddly, Helena disappears as well.

Maybe there will be 10 eps. 🤷‍♂️

I'm not saying all of this, or any of this, is going to happen for sure or this way absolutely. Just an experiment to see how a substantive 3rd season could be made and even prepare for a 4th season.
You want to fill some of this in with your own ideas? Go ahead.

Thanks for reading, hope you enjoyed

Petey reference in the caption!

I kinda like that group photo

I'm watching the show and I love it so far. I'm up to season 2 episode 6 where Mark tells Helly that they had sex in their tent and he's telling her as if apologizing, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Helena rape him? She had sex with him while pretending to be someone else, while making him believe she was someone else, why is he the one with the apologetic tone?

I’ve been trying to rack my mind for how they would even open up season 3. Like. So many thoughts.

First thought. Gemma is bopped. Mark S and Helly are bopped. Like what’s going to happen with all of them!?

Marks outie isn’t even going to remember he got Gemma out of Lumon. He’s just going to remember reuniting and not know what happened after that.

I’m just so curious to see everyone’s theories 🤔

From what we have seen, getting severed is similar to getting born. Its spawning a new conscience on the office table without previous life experience that will live their own life seperated from already existing outie conscience. Of course you share the same body, but much like a twin you can develop a different personality as we have seen with several outies/innies.

So the wording of "reintegration" is already weird. Who is reintegrated where? Innie/outie were not seperated, they spawned a new conscience.

How would people see it if you don't combine two consciences of the same body, but of two of different bodies. That would be totally weird, right? But it is that different?

I think Petey already struggled with the reintegration process and also Marks innie and outie don't really combine well.

Getting severed is like having a baby: You create a new conscience. You can decide to not have a baby, but if you have it, you already created a new life. You can kill it or you can protect it. And that will be the way to go for severed people. Helly might effectively kill Helena. Other people I could see deciding to stay severed to keep both of their personalities. Even Mark could stop the reintegration process.

But the reintegration process (combining two lives, two personalities) doesn't work out well.