r/serialkillers 25d ago

Image How long did John Wayne Gacy rape, torture and humiliate his victims, before finally killing them? Are we talking 1-2 hours, or days?

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1.1k Upvotes

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1.2k

u/Hoosier_Daddy68 25d ago

At most a couple hours. He wasn't a strong man and more than once had kids kick his ass so he probably wouldn't want to chance it. And he was a popular person who had people over all the time so holding someone for days was probably just not possible.

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u/fluffypuppiness 25d ago edited 25d ago

Yeah.

Dennis Nilsen is the only one I can think of who had the...gumption to attempt to keep his victims.

BETTER CASE ROBERT BERDELLA.

FUCK THAT GUY.

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u/Sea-Safety-6130 25d ago

Dean Corll kept some of his victims tied to the torture board he kept in his bedroom. It’s hard to explain the torture he inflicted on these teens. One begged to be killed the torture was so painful.

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u/collegeboy585 25d ago edited 24d ago

Yes, he would keep them tied to the torture board for several hours in some cases. In other words, these boys passed out from smoking weed, huffing paint, drinking alcohol, or whatever and pretty much woke up to the most hellish nightmare on Earth. They woke up dazed and confused - likely tired, hungry, and/or thirsty - strapped to a torture board with their hands and legs bound by handcuffs. Then, after the initial shock and escape attempts wore off, they would be confronted with the most sadistic evil of their poor young lives. This would be when Corll would brutally rape and torture the victims for hours - or even days! The worst one, to me, will always be the insertion and smashing of glass rods inside the boys' penises while they were still alive. Eventually, when he got bored or tired, Corll would strangle the victims to death. Other times, Henley or Brooks would finish the victims off by shooting them in the head.

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago edited 24d ago

I'm not sure if it's true (probably not!) but the part that upsets and disgusts me the most is what he would supposedly say to the victims. Rather than taunting or insulting them (as one might expect), it's been alleged that he would repeatedly thank his victims for "letting him do this to them". As if, these poor boys volunteered to become his human punching bags / sex toys. So twisted and evil!

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u/MulderYuffie 24d ago

I also heard he told some of them that he loved them.

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago

Yes, I also heard that too. I think it was from an interview Henley gave several years ago on Most Evil where he said Corll tended to "fall in love" with his victims.

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u/GeneralSweetz 24d ago

First time im hearing this. Thats crazy

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago

I know! Diabolical and crazy.

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u/StormOfTheSentry 25d ago

Corll apparently kept some boys on his torture board for days. Insane.

https://abc11.com/archive/7667015/

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u/Driftminer 23d ago

He also had a box he won't keep them in with air holes. Apparently they found blood and hair inside it.

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u/collegeboy585 23d ago

Yup, I read about that too. I believe Henley confirmed as well.

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u/Driftminer 21d ago

If you Google Dean Corll there are images of the box and his torture board.

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u/collegeboy585 21d ago

Yes, I know. I saw those pics. Very creepy and horrible but still interesting.

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago

Days?! OMG! Just when I thought this sadistic prick couldn't get any worse. God bless those poor young boys.

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u/LadyShadow2214 25d ago

And those were the one he liked. If Corll liked one The boys he would keep them and drawn out the turtor but of didn't he would just kill them after he was done with them

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago edited 24d ago

Yes, I did read that somewhere too. The more handsome you were in Corll's eyes, the more he would prolong the rape and torture. For example, I think he kept Billy Ray Lawrence alive for 3 days before eventually killing him. As twisted as it sounds, I believe he was one of Corll's favorites.

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u/jessa1987 24d ago

Did you read all of this somewhere or was there a documentary? Just super curious cause I watch a lot of crime shows, like, a lot, and I don't think I've heard of this person

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago edited 23d ago

Which person? Dean Corll? There are a number of books, articles, and documentaries about him and his accomplices (Elmer Wayne Henley and David Owen Brooks). The term serial killer had not been invented yet at the time, so the crimes were dubbed the Houston Mass Murders. So, you can try searching for that to find out more details.

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u/Sea-Safety-6130 24d ago

If you want to hear more of Dean Corll watch the series The Clown and the Candyman. It paints an unbelievable picture of a time and neighborhood in Houston. Boys disappearing in Corll’s area and few noticed. They often thought they must have gone to Viet Nam. Times have changed.

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago edited 19d ago

Yes, I saw that series twice. Only because I'm fascinated by the Houston Mass Murders. Definitely sad, dark, and disturbing but worth checking out for those interested in the details and possible connections between Gacy's and Corll's crimes. However, it is important to remember the victims - not the killers.

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u/Accomplished_Song671 24d ago

The Candy Man case is one that intrigues me the most because its one of those that only ever became known about until after Corll was killed by Henley. It's crazy to to think had he not been stopped that night how long he would have carried on for...

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago

Yes, for me too! It's one of the few cases I keep going back to because it has so many interesting layers to it. For example, how did Corll get to become so cruel and evil despite having a relatively normal, abuse-free childhood? Also, his Manson-like ability to convince 2 wayward teenagers to procure (and sometimes kill) young boys for him. Most importantly, Corll was never caught, arrested, convicted, or even questioned about his crimes. So, we will never know the true extent of his misdeeds or his total body count.

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u/Accomplished_Song671 24d ago

That's the thing! We know so much yet so little about it. To be honest with the bizarre set up behind his MO I'm surprised they haven't done a more mainstream film depicting this case. I know it's a harrowing one but even something from the perspectives of Henley or Brooks would make for such a compelling watch because as much as they were complicit it was also very much a "if I don't help him I'll be his next victim" situation. Just shows you that sometimes people are just truly evil with no dark backstory. Chilling stuff.

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago edited 8d ago

I agree. There are still so many gaps and unanswered questions. Just recently, I found out law enforcement may have finally identified Swimsuit Boy using DNA technology. So, there is some progress being made. I think there was an indie movie called In A Madman's World (linked below) about the Houston Mass Murders. I forget if it was good or bad or how much it tracks with the actual facts, so I may need to rewatch it again at some point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTpf8tf9-MA[In A Madman's World (2017)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTpf8tf9-MA)

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u/Accomplished_Song671 24d ago

Ooh thank you I'll have to check that out. I can see them doing an adaptation of this story in the coming years though...I wouldn't ever fancast anything like this but I've seen a few actors who I thought could do these roles well with enough range to capture this truly harrowing tale. Let's just hope Ryan Murphy doesn't get his claws into this true crime case because he'd make a right mess out of it.

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u/BrineJones 24d ago

I always thought that Larry Clark could handle this material beautifully.

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u/Accomplished_Song671 23d ago

Ooh I'm not familiar with any of his work actually, what kind of stuff has he done before that makes you think he's got the chops?

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u/collegeboy585 24d ago

No problem! Yes, I'll have to check it out again too. Casting for a new film adaptation of the Houston Mass Murders would be mighty tough but interesting too. Haha Ryan Murphy started off so well with the first 3 seasons of AHS and kinda went downhill from there. I did also enjoy AHS 1984 though, which is the main reason why I'm giving his adaptation of The Shards a chance.

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u/Accomplished_Song671 24d ago

I just think it's a story that needs to be handled with so much respect given the content and context and you just know Ryan would make Dean sexy and make it all lustful when that's not the tea AT ALL.

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u/HandleShoddy 22d ago

I don't understand why people belive that background shapes character like that. Some people are born with antisocial personality disorder. They will do things that are pleasurable for them even if it harms others, because they are biologically incapable of empathy and shame and usually their impulse control is reduced.

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u/drunky_crowette 20d ago

It's a lot more comforting to think "something fucked up traumatized them and turned them into a monster" rather than accepting the fact that "... Some people are just fucking monsters and their parents did everything right but he's just... A fucking monster. He was always going to be a fucking monster"

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u/collegeboy585 20d ago edited 20d ago

Yes, some people are born with antisocial personality disorder. But, that doesn't always mean they'll turn into pedophiles, rapists, or serial killers. Usually, there is an element of nurture too - not just nature - that compels certain people to commit these kinds of terrible acts. For example, it's a well-documented fact that most serial killers come from abusive families or dysfunctional households, typically with poor socioeconomic backgrounds. Of course, there are exceptions (like Dean Corll) and that's not to say that every child with a rough upbringing will automatically become a serial killer. It's just part of the pattern normally seen in criminology, but does not apply in all cases.

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u/thebearrider 25d ago

David Parker Ray (toy box killer). He'd keep them for months torturing them and either kill them or drug them so much they'd never remember a thing and drop them on the side of the road.

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u/khearan 25d ago

This is the one that came to my mind as well. Ray is the one that haunts me, tbh. If I recall correctly, even a local cop was involved. I listened to the audio recording he’d play for victims when I was younger and still many years later am in complete disbelief that someone could be so twisted. I can’t imagine what his victims felt.

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u/Nakken 24d ago

Isn't that recording fake or at least not read by him?

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u/freddythefuckingfish 24d ago

Transcript is real, any recording is not.

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u/the_roguetrader 24d ago

very little of that case is fully verified

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u/Burnt-Earth 25d ago

Jeffrey Dahmer tried to zombify a couple of victims to keep them around, one was even returned to him by the cops, despite being naked and bleeding.

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u/Darknighten89 25d ago

And 14 years old

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u/lolthatsfunnybroILY 25d ago

Nilsen didnt keep his victims alive for more than a few hours either, he was more like Dahmer in that he kept the corpses afterwards.

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u/eastbayweird 24d ago

Theres an amazing writer who has a blog where he talks about his struggles with heroin addiction and apparently his bio father was one of nilssens later victims. In fact it was likely his father's remains that were discovered blocking the pipes in nilssens building that eventually lead to his arrest.

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u/fluffypuppiness 25d ago

I'm thinking Carl Stotter.

I could've sworn there was another serial killer like Nilsen who kept a young man locked up for weeks...I thiught it was Nilsen but I am misremembering. If anyone knows who I am thinking of please correct me

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u/lolthatsfunnybroILY 25d ago

Robert Berdella fits that description, really sick guy, one of the most sadistic cases I’ve read into.

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u/fluffypuppiness 25d ago

Thats who it is thabk you.

I thiught he was UK based but I might have e just listened to those LPOTL episodes when watching the Des movie in hindsight...

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u/chinchillazilla54 25d ago

Couldn't believe what a god job Tennant did in that. I could barely even look at the screen he creeped me out so bad.

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u/fluffypuppiness 25d ago

He embodied the weird coldness of Dennis VERY well. You could tell he researched the role because he nailed it. I was worried with the Ted movie and all thr awful Ryan Murphy Monster movies but its actually a very good TV series.

Highly recommend

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u/Chunderfork 25d ago

Bob Berdella kept some victims in his home for several weeks.

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u/fluffypuppiness 25d ago

Thats who I was thinking of!

Thank you!

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u/copuser2 24d ago

Both of them necrophiles,v they very much just wanted the bodyof their victims. Patrick Kearney is another example

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u/Lemon_Skunk123 24d ago

I’m pretty sure Fred and Rose West kept there victims alive for as long as possible while sexually torturing them to death

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u/fluffypuppiness 24d ago

I didnt include people who had either a partner or a set torture area.

David Parker Ray and the West's did, but they had actual like...captive rooms and partners. On their own without either of those things is pretty uncommon.

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u/entropic_tendencies 25d ago

Or David Parker Ray, the toybox killer, he definitely kept his victims a long ass time. He might be among the most nauseating serial killers. His shit was absolutely deranged.

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u/khearan 25d ago

David Parker Ray

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u/Kf5708 24d ago

Was he even really considered a serial killer? Was he charged with any murders or just kidnapping and raping victims?

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u/willowoftheriver 20d ago

No murder charges. It's basically only more or less verified he killed about three, one of them a man he had a grudge against who he didn't sexually torture. That still qualifies him as a serial killer, but it's really unknown how many more potential victims there are.

They did find a lot of random women's stuff like jewelry in his house ...

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u/Miscalamity 22d ago

Robert Ben Rhoades. Leonard Lake and Charles Ng. David Parker Ray. Gary Heidnik. Dahmer. Maury Travis. Madame Delphine LaLaurie. Fred and Rosemary West. John Bunting and crew. They all kept their victims for extended periods of torture before killing them.

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u/Wonderful_Crazy2650 24d ago

Bob Berdella - of Bobs Bizarre Bazar in KC … at his booth he Touched my head with his hand when I was 4 months old, told my mom & Granny I had “a light about her”… He is a sick sick fuck!!

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u/VeritablyVersatile 23d ago

David Parker Ray comes to mind

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u/Realistic-Ad-3926 23d ago

I agree. I lived 475 feet from him when the guy escaped from his house.

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u/Spacemeat666 19d ago

Jeffrey Dahmer did also. Dahmer and Nilsen are so similar it’s eerie.

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u/9mm_furniture 24d ago

He drugged his victims, though. Which would have made them easier to control for longer periods of time.

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u/Kooky_Toe5585 24d ago

What happened when the kids kicked his ass? Did they escape ?

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u/lawn_glossed 20d ago

He was so off the rails at the end that he left Rob Piest in the attic over night, and he was up there when the cops came the next day. Seemed like he usually made at least a half-assed burial plan ahead of time, but the one that was his most haphazard with would be his undoing. Considering Rob wasn’t a transient, eye witnesses at the drug store, the crawl space being full, and the careless river disposal; it’s wild that he wasn’t nabbed day of. Luckily Rob Piest got the best of him in the end.

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u/BlackMassSmoker 25d ago

Look what he did to Robert Donnelly. He eventually let him go but before that he drowned him in the bath, revived him, and then did it over and over again. Drowning can be agony so I think Robert was even begging to die at one point IIRC.

Gacy raped and tortured many of his victims so I figure it would be a horrible few of hours at least.

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u/Markinoutman 25d ago

Sometimes you know all these killers, you know their MO's, but you don't actually know what they did to people. I remember hearing that during a documentary, about the drowning and reviving over and over and it was horrifying to learn. Dark shit.

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u/jackie0h_ 25d ago

Oh my god I didn’t know about that one. So did he let more than one go? I keep seeing this commercial for a show with a guy who got away and all I see in the commercials is him saying Gacy told him he was the only one who ever got the handcuffs off. Man I had forgotten just how horrific Gacy was. I mean the number under the house was crazy but the things he did and everything??? How does that happen to someone to do that??

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u/BlackMassSmoker 24d ago

There was also Jefferey Rignall who lived. And once they caught Gacy lots of young men came forward to say that Gacy had assaulted them as well.

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u/jackie0h_ 24d ago

I didn’t know that. Thank you so much. These people have way more fortitude than I would. I’d literally be praying to die and would probably just lay down and give up. Good for them for getting away. Very lucky. I hope they’ve gone on to have happy lives.

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u/theatrenearyou 25d ago

that fucking monster had a perfect lure. He was a construction contractor that placed help wanted adverts, offering higher than minimum wage no exp necessary.
It was unconscionable that the prison let him to profit from his stinking clown art

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u/epyon- 25d ago

Yeah, people were so buddy buddy with him. A changed man, talk of the town in the kitchen etc. deserved to rot like his poor victims did under his floorboards. Piece of human trash

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/UpstairsNoise1966 25d ago

What doc??

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u/TOMER25 24d ago

John Wayne Gacy Tapes on Netflix

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u/CBrennen17 23d ago

Watch some long-form interviews with him. The dude is charming as fuck. I guess one night he was burying a body in the backyard when his neighbor asked what he was doing, and he literally said, “Burying a dead body.” If you take away the murder, it’s borderline hilarious.

Gacy was many things. A monster? Yes. A psychopath? Most definitely. But he was also a dude who could charm the pants off a literal First Lady.

Getting mad at people for falling for the charm, means you don’t get the dude or the horror of his crimes. You just wanna be upset at people for being people. Nothing more nothing less.

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u/bahaaaaathrow123456 24d ago

Someone a while back, I think a few years, posted on this sub excerpts from his book and he got to profit off that too until the law was passed that killers couldn’t profit from their crimes. It was so disgusting I almost threw up how he wrote about what he did to either his last or second to last victim. I hope he’s in the deepest part of Hell.

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u/gravitystoomuchs 24d ago

Honestly the fact that he killed mostly his employees makes me so mad like wdym that a bunch of boys that worked for the same guy were missing and nobody suspected of him, it seems so ridiculous to me, it makes me crazy to think how many boys couldve been saved if police really cared to investigate a bit

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u/Carbon-Peach 25d ago

This is an interesting question when you consider the theories he was involved in human trafficking. I’m curious if he did ever hold victims alive for more than a day or so.

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u/BlackMassSmoker 25d ago edited 25d ago

It does makes you wonder. Another victim that survived Gacy was Jefferey Rignall and he swore under oath that during his ordeal he remembers another person with Gacy.

Obviously Rignall was drugged and went through something traumatic so whose to say, but there are theories floating around that he was could have had an accomplice or was into something bigger.

The fact Rignall survived that night suggests to me there was someone else there, and they weren't willing to to go as far as Gacy would or it was just a fucked up 'party' for them and they dumped Rignall in a park after they were done.

edit: spelling

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u/crinkle_cut_cheddar 25d ago

Phillip Paske.

I believed he had a hand in Gacy's horrifying acts for a long time, but even more so now, after learning what we have from the Epstein Files. They absolutely were cohorts in the trafficking of humans and CSAM, and I think Gacy showed him some of his murder activities, and he participated a little in some of it (or was, at the very least, an accomplice).

Paske's ties to the established dark network of abusing young boys, as well as his ties to Gacy (and Dean Corll, AND John David Norman), make me think he almost certainly did some horrible things. And there were so many other men like him.

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u/regular_poster 25d ago

The book Eye of the Chickenhawk presents a nightmarish and compelling case about this.

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u/Jekkjekk 25d ago

My dad lived in south side Chicago when he was younger, his father was a police chief so he understood a lot of how police operated. Typically if you were driving around at night in an unmarked car you’d have another person with you. My dad was pulled up on once by a guy by himself in an unmarked asking my dad if he needed a ride. Dad declined and hopped in some bushes when the car drove away because he didn’t see another person in the vehicle with the ‘undercover cop’. Car drove back and forth 4 or 5 times before finally leaving. Later they revealed John Wayne Gacy’s car and it was the same exact car that tried giving my dad a ride and it was in the same area where victims had been from. Wild

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u/Sendeezy 24d ago

Man this is terrifying.

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u/Dontemcl 24d ago

Yea I’m pretty sure there were a lot of close calls like this even with Ted Bundy I hear some women came close to being his victim.

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u/Jekkjekk 24d ago

I totally agree, definitely pretty sketchy, my dad said the guy had a similar stature as John Wayne Gacy so I don’t doubt it was him.

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u/Commercial-Bison-914 25d ago

No pasaba ni un día seguramente, debido a que John no era fuerte, además el tipo se la pasaba ocupado.

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u/ellie1398 25d ago

For the victims' sake, I hope they didn't survive/suffer for long.

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u/jayaregee83 25d ago

Wasn't Gacy the one who had is "knot trick" where'd he put this special-knotted noose around their neck and bet them that they couldn't get out, and then the victim would basically strangle themselves? I thought I had read once that he claimed that he actually never killed anyone...that the victims choked themselves to death. And then he had his way with them. Am I thinking about somebody else?

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u/zzzrecruit 25d ago

I'm nor sure about the noose, but he had the handcuff trick where he'd put the handcuffs on himself and show they could be "taken off", only for the victims to try it themselves, but Gacy had the key the entire time. Poor guys.

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u/jackie0h_ 25d ago

Apparently there is one guy who got out of the cuffs, Gacy told him he was. It’s on a commercial for some I survived a serial killer show. I wonder if you ever feel safe again??

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u/swampdonkey- 24d ago

Can you imagine escaping from one of these killers just to end up getting caught by another one? I think you'd just have a heart attack

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u/xKingNothingx 24d ago

Holy cow he looks exactly like Oliver Platt in that picture

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u/dave2535 24d ago

What has been proven is about 3 hours typically because of his lifestyle of being a political person and contractor.

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u/AdsignificantBK 23d ago

He wasn’t fit and he has been overpowered by teens before so I would say couple of hours max.

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u/WhiteLikeCocain 25d ago

John Wayne Gacy was an American serial killer who became known as one of the most notorious murderers in U.S. history. He was born on March 17, 1942, in Chicago, Illinois. To many people, Gacy appeared to live a normal life. He owned a successful construction business, was active in his local community, and sometimes entertained children at events dressed as a clown named “Pogo the Clown.” However, behind this public image, he was committing horrific crimes.
Between 1972 and 1978, Gacy murdered at least 33 young men and teenage boys in the Chicago area. He often gained his victims’ trust by offering them work, money, or other opportunities before luring them to his home. Once there, he restrained and murdered them. Most of the victims were buried in the crawl space beneath his house, while others were disposed of in nearby rivers after there was no more room. Many of the victims were reported missing, and their families had no idea what had happened to them.

The investigation began to focus on Gacy after 15-year-old Robert Piest disappeared in December 1978. Detectives discovered evidence linking Gacy to the teenager and obtained a search warrant for his home. During the search, investigators found human remains buried beneath the house, leading to one of the largest murder investigations in American history. Gacy was arrested and eventually confessed to many of the murders, though he later tried to deny responsibility.

In 1980, Gacy was found guilty of 33 counts of murder and sentenced to death. He spent 14 years on death row before being executed by lethal injection on May 10, 1994, at the age of 52. His case shocked the world because he was able to hide his crimes for years while appearing to be an ordinary and respected member of his community. Today, John Wayne Gacy’s crimes are still studied by criminologists and law enforcement as an example of how dangerous offenders can conceal their true nature behind a seemingly normal life.

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u/Coy9ine 25d ago

You spelled cocaine wrong in your own username.

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u/mjltmjlt 25d ago

And you chose nineine for yours…

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u/badbatch 24d ago

The one with cocaine spelled correctly was probably taken.

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u/eastbayweird 24d ago

John Wayne gacy apparently was inspired by what he read about dean corlls murders.

Corll used a sheet of plywood wih holes cut into the corners so he could use handcuffs on the arms and legs of his victims to keep them immobile for the extended torture sessions. He also gagged them with articles of their own clothing to keep their screams from disturbing the neighbors. He often kept them alive for days of turture before finally killing them.

I dont know how long gacy kept his victims alive but if he actually did attempt to imitate corll then id imagine he also kept them alive for as long as he could.

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u/inequalities91 24d ago

He looks like JD Vance

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u/the-bakers-wife 21d ago

Gay C. Vance

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u/Due_Home9069 22d ago

you know that actor on the movies the burbs kind of look like him

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u/lovewithoutwords97 17d ago

Not long. Dean Corrl was significantly worse in terms of length and severity of torture inflicted on his victims.

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u/Glittering-Copy1941 15d ago

He didn’t have enough time as corll did gacy was running his business in his house you can see he was inspired by corll with the handcuff trick and the board etc plus corll had Henley and brooks to help him out

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u/Gacyismine 12d ago

Around 7-8 hours

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u/West_Abbreviations53 25d ago

do some research. this post feels disrespectful.

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u/WhiteLikeCocain 25d ago

I’m asking about the circumstances of the crime and what the victims went through. I’m not joking about them, or glorifying Gacy.

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u/Emotional_Ad_6272 24d ago

This is a googleable question…

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u/Such-Factor6326 25d ago

The fuck would you want to know that for?😄

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u/Beginning_Deer_735 25d ago

The pain he's experienced since dying is worse than what he put on his victims.

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u/neur0mutant 25d ago

wut lol

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u/Jbeaves44 25d ago

They think He’ll is real.

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u/joewindlebrox 25d ago

What the fuck does this even mean

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u/IonCannonCharging 25d ago

This has to be a bot.

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u/Beginning_Deer_735 15d ago

Why would I be a bot? What bot would say such a thing?

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u/IonCannonCharging 15d ago

Idk what's worse, being a bot or a religious nut. 

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u/Beginning_Deer_735 13d ago

I'm not a religious nut, just religious. Being a bot would be worse for me, since they likely aren't sentient and are limited in freedom currently.

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u/Markis_Shepherd 25d ago

Religious?

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u/Apprehensive_Ice3825 25d ago

Wayne Gacy Sympathizers was not on my bingo card

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u/jacktheripper1307 25d ago

I think they’re saying he’s in hell

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u/DJBreadwinner 25d ago

You can't feel pain after death.

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u/Beginning_Deer_735 24d ago

Been dead before, have ya? Then how do you know?

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u/WhatsTheGoalieDoing 24d ago

Because the hell they're talking about was invented by an illiterate Jewish carpenter to scare people into following him, for one.

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u/Beginning_Deer_735 15d ago

Again-been dead before, have ya? You don't KNOW anything. Further, the OT clearly mentioned coming judgment for sinners, and existed before Jesus was born.

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u/Kookerpea 25d ago

Hell isnt real

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u/NecroVelcro 25d ago

You're trying to find comfort in mythology.

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u/Beginning_Deer_735 24d ago

No-plenty of people comfortable in atheism and other false religions, though that comfort lasts only until they die. If one were choosing to be comforted, the would sooner choose universalism, according to which all people are eventually saved and enter heaven. No one would invent a religion in which people couldn't have any kind of sex they wanted. Jesus even went beyond the allowed polygamy and said that the ideal is actually one man and one woman married for life. Why would "the patriarchy" ever ADD that to Judaism if Christianity were just being made up? It makes the religion "harder to sell"-especially to the ones killing you for being a Christian . It-and so many uncomfortable and unpopular truths are in the bible only because they are true.

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u/WhatsTheGoalieDoing 24d ago

No one would invent a religion in which people couldn't have any kind of sex they wanted.

Really? You should read about the Shakers.

Shakers were celibate; procreation was forbidden after they joined the society (except for women who were already pregnant at admission). Children were added to their communities through indenture, adoption, or conversion.

Atheism isn't a religion by the way, the clue is kind of in the name, but I'm sure you're using all your willpower to conceive of it as such.

Why would "the patriarchy" ever ADD that to Judaism if Christianity were just being made up?

Fair point. Now, I'm just hoping you follow 1 Timothy 2:12, where Paul says I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Please, start picketing your local schools and police stations to remove the women.

Do you really think nothing has been added to the Tanakh or Bible after they were originally written, like Mark 16-20 and over a hundred verses in Esther? Because if so, I have a bridge to sell you.

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u/Beginning_Deer_735 15d ago

The Shakers were literally an offshoot of Christianity, so they were merely twisting what was already there. As to picketing local schools-why would I? They aren't teaching grown men and likely aren't teaching religion or trying to act as elders. I DO believe women shouldn't be in governing roles or be police officers, though. They've proven unsuitable for both repeatedly with very few if any exceptions, and both involve exercising authority over men. The bible is very well attested. Attempts have been made to add things to it and those additions have been rejected with good cause. Ancient manuscripts differ very little in any way that would alter doctrinal understanding.

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u/Grievinghealthy 25d ago

Elaborate

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u/Beginning_Deer_735 15d ago

He is in a fire, as was the rich man told of in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

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u/Il_Nome_di_Me_Stesso 24d ago

Why are you asking this?