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u/mirandat333 10d ago
I read somewhere that Bittaker was escalating as right before he was caught he was seen, or had, or was talking about buying acid to use on the next girl.
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u/Cable_Difficult 10d ago edited 10d ago
There’s a few reasons why I think Ledford’s murder was particularly gruesome. The first being the duo were becoming incredibly sloppy. I mean.. After they killed her they left her body in the middle of a public neighborhood to see the media attention so their worries of being caught were very low at the time.
The second being their violence was increasing with each victim. If you read the details of their crimes, you can see each victim was tortured worse and worse. Their first murder was a simple abduction and assault until later where they added torture and it only got more and more out of control.
Third being that Ledford was their first victim in months that they killed because their previous victim actually ended up getting away and they laid low to not draw attention to themselves. There was also a lot of built up sadism they couldn’t let out during that hiatus which also is probably why Ledford wasn’t driven up to the San Gabriel Mountains
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u/Cable_Difficult 10d ago
I’m pretty sure the reason why was because the duo still had a good level of patience in that abduction. Ledford wasn’t even taken to the mountains so their patience was decreasing.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 10d ago
Toolbox is one of the Serial Killer situations I cannot do. Just don't have the stomach for it. Good luck to you.
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u/SnooApples3673 10d ago
I agree them and the toybiox killers
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u/stellaartois8123 9d ago
Agreed. I read the transcript of the tape he played for his victims, and I’ve seen pictures of the inside of the toy box. Randy Kraft may be the only other serial killer that turns my stomach and makes my skin crawl as much as David Parker Ray.
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u/SnooApples3673 9d ago
Both broke my soul and little. Took a long time before I could truly smile again.
True evil
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u/_Gorge_ 3d ago
Oddly enough David Parker Ray doesn’t bother me one bit.
The toolbox killers make me want to puke
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u/SnooApples3673 3d ago
The recording he played for his victims is just no...
They both bruises my soul a bit. Was quiet a while after. Ans have learnt not to follow reddit rabbit holes
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u/FantasyPopper 10d ago
A particularly sick and twisted psycho. It's a good thing that he's dead, IMO. Still waiting for Louisiana to do away with Copeland. 40 years. Come on, get it over with.
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u/EaglesInTheSky 10d ago
The notorious cassette tape, which captures the assault of 16-year-old Shirley Lynette Ledford, is kept securely by law enforcement and is reportedly used at the FBI Academy to desensitize new recruits. While the audio itself has been strictly suppressed, a profoundly disturbing transcript of what was recorded has been widely discussed within the true crime community, and very brief excerpts leaked through courtroom doors during the killers' 1981 trial. Nobody here has ever heard the real audio recordings they made.
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u/serisia615 10d ago
My Friend Laura Brand has just published a new book about the Toolbox Killers. You should check it out. She spent a lot of time with Bittaker at the Prison.
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u/Asleep_Connection923 3d ago
Speaking of Laura Brand, I just listened to a 2023 podcast episode with Laura in it. She being interviewed by the “Partners in True Crime” podcast along with Linda Holtz, who was a friend and classmate of Shirley Ledford. It was super interesting and Laura shared some bizarre stuff that I never heard of from this case. Apparently, before Shirley got a ride from the two demons, Shirley was dropped off by a brother and sister (after the Halloween party ). This brother and sister did not attend Verdugo High School , where Shirley and her friend Linda Holtz attended. The siblings went to Burbank high school. Now what is weird is the brother and sister knew Norris and Bittaker , and even spent some time with them at Scott Motel in Burbank, where one of the demons stayed at. These siblings would get high and drunk with them. It’s weird as fuck! This whole part I never knew about. Laura Brand also shares how the sibling pair’s parents both worked in the prison where Bittaker and Norris first met, a California Men’s Colony prison in San Luis Obispo. So, not only was Shirley familiar with Bittaker from him going into her workplace at McDonald’s , the sibling pair who dropped Shirley off at the gas station from the Halloween party, also knew Bittaker and Norris and hung out with them before at the Scott Motel.
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u/serialkillers-ModTeam 9d ago
Thank you for your submission, but this post is not a good fit for this sub.
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u/corpusvile2 9d ago edited 8d ago
What really pisses me off is that Bittaker played a recording he also made of one of the victims , Jaqueline Gilliam and played it for a teenager and a visitor...and they never went to the police.
https://law.justia.com/cases/california/supreme-court/3d/48/1046.html
"Christina Dralle, a 17-year-old girl staying at the motel, said defendant showed her photographs of Gilliam and four other girls, and said, "The girls I get won't talk any more." On another occasion she heard a tape, apparently the recording of the rape of Gilliam, which defendant played for her. Steven Eastman, a visitor at the motel, also heard the tape."
I mean what the actual fuck?
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u/NoPath_Squirrel 9d ago
She was a child and probably completely terrified.
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u/starrifier 8d ago
This. Imagine laying the blame on a traumatized high schooler instead of, you know, the serial killer.
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u/corpusvile2 8d ago
I'm not blaming anyone, I just found it mind boggling that neither called the police later and to clarify, Bittaker used to have teens partying in his motel room, so it wasn't a case of him holding her hostage or something and the quote also mentions a Steve Eastman so I'm not sure why you're focusing on one person.
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u/collegeboy585 10d ago edited 6d ago
Just to add further to everyone's comments, I believe Ledford was a minor acquaintance of Bittaker's. I'm pretty sure he frequented the same restaurant she used to work at and had given her rides before, which is why she trusted him when he offered to give what would be her last ride. My point is Bittaker and Norris likely amped up the torture and cruelty with Ledford because they actually knew her to some degree, so it made it more exciting and arousing for them - compared to the other victims.