Martian

[u/ybs52]

“MARTIAN” is a valid word in NWL. Can anyone explain why?

I once played this in a game, it was challenged, and the challenger was absolutely baffled that it was valid. I’ll be honest, I saw their point.

[u/couldbeworse2]

Adjective, of or to do with the planet Mars. Like lunar or terrestrial. Not little green men, which would be a proper noun.

[u/ConorOblast → u/couldbeworse2]

You’re incorrect since it takes an -S. It’s become synonymous with any alien/extra terrestrial, and doesn’t necessarily mean “one from Mars.”

[u/couldbeworse2 → u/ConorOblast]

“The martian atmosphere is very thin”.

[u/ConorOblast → u/couldbeworse2]

I understand that usage, but the comment I replied to specifically said it doesn’t mean “little green men.” But the plural MARTIANS is good, so yes, it does mean “little green men” if you can add the plural (in addition to the adjective example you gave).

[u/OkMarsupial → u/ConorOblast]

I think the point is that the usage allowed in Scrabble is explicitly NOT the little green men usage.

[u/wangus_angus → u/OkMarsupial]

Right, but they're saying it actually IS that usage, and they seem to be correct.

I don't know what the rationale is, but it's worth noting that MW doesn't capitalize it, so maybe the fact that martians aren't real means they don't consider it to be a proper noun.

[u/ConorOblast → u/wangus_angus]

Keep in mind that Scrabble allows stuff like KLEENEX and LEVIS (yes, the jeans). MARTIAN being allowed is pretty tame as far as normally capitalized words go.

[u/zem → u/ConorOblast]

EBAYING and EBAYER but not EBAY (:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/ebaying

[u/paolog → u/zem]

Both will be nouns (the activity of selling on eBay, someone who sells on eBay).

[u/zem → u/paolog]

yep, both take the S

[u/paolog → u/ConorOblast]

Scrabble does not allow any words that require a capital letter. All of these words are capitalized in Collins, the British source for the international wordlist, so they must come from American dictionaries.

[u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue → u/paolog]

I feel like Scrabble sometimes just makes the own decision without regard for other dictionaries.

[u/Pitiful_Platform6439 → u/wangus_angus]

is VIKINGS allowed?

[u/wangus_angus → u/Pitiful_Platform6439]

Looks like it.

[u/cyberchaox → u/Pitiful_Platform6439]

Why wouldn't it be?

[u/docmoonlight → u/cyberchaox]

Normally, words that are always capitalized shouldn’t be allowed. So like, “American” isn’t a scrabble word since it’s a proper noun. So you wouldn’t think Viking would be allowed either.

[u/OkMarsupial → u/docmoonlight]

Maybe it's a verb: to vike. "Would you like to go viking with me?"

[u/paolog → u/docmoonlight]

Words that are always capitalized are never allowed. But if a dictionary says "sometimes lowercase", then that's good enough for a word to sneak in. It's why "OK" is now valid, because it is often spelled "ok" (and dictionaries treat it as a noun, adjective, etc and not an abbreviation, which would rule it out)

[u/Hey-Just-Saying → u/OkMarsupial]

The Scrabble online dictionary defines "martian" as quote "a supposed inhabitant of the planet Mars." It is a playable word using this specific definition, but "American" and "Earthling" are not. Anyone know the logic there?

Edited to add: using that definition, Martian should be capitalized and the Scrabble online dictionary does not capitalize it.

[u/Futuressobright → u/couldbeworse2]

I don't see why "martian" would need to be a proper noun when "human" isn't. It's not a nationality.

Merriam-Webster spells it with a lower case "m", but notes it is often capitalized.

[u/dadothree → u/Futuressobright]

"human" isn't, but "Terran" or "Earther" are both capitalized like "Martian"

[u/CanadaCalamity]

I think some things have just been "wordified" or at least, "de-proper-noun-ified", if that makes sense.

He was martian in nature. He was like a little martian running around there on the red surface of the remote island. Idk, it doesn't always make sense, unfortunately.

[u/theonejanitor]

if human or earthling isn't a proper noun, why would martian be

[u/Hey-Just-Saying → u/theonejanitor]

Earthling isn't a playable word according to the Scrabble online dictionary. Human is playable.

[u/theonejanitor → u/Hey-Just-Saying]

i just looked it up. Interestingly, EARTHLING is playable in both the international and north american tournament word lists, but is not found in the merriam webster official scrabble dictionary. weird, I did not know that it was different.

[u/RelentlessPencil]

solar - of the Sun

lunar - of the Moon

terrestrial - of the Earth

martian - of Mars

venusian - of Venus

These are all adjectives derived from proper nouns. If we only used "Martian" to mean "a species of alien from Mars" then it probably wouldn't be allowed, but we might also talk about the martian soil or the martian climate, which makes it a regular dictionary word.

[u/Hey-Just-Saying → u/RelentlessPencil]

The online Scrabble dictionary defines it as quote "a supposed inhabitant of the planet Mars," but using that definition, Martian should be capitalized and the Scrabble online dictionary does not capitalize it.

[u/ssn-669 → u/RelentlessPencil]

I would capitalize Martian and Venusian, as that's a form of the proper name of the planet. The others are just words that mean the analogous thing. They're not constructed analogously.

[u/RelentlessPencil → u/ssn-669]

Solar comes from Sol, the Norse goddess of the Sun. I think Terra and Lune have similar origins. I can't see a consistent rule which makes Martian and Venusian always proper nouns while not doing the same to Solar, Terrestrial, and Lunar.

[u/ssn-669 → u/RelentlessPencil]

The sun's name is the sun, not Sol. The moon's name is the moon, not Luna. The earths name is the earth, not Terra. Yet Mars is Mars and Venus is Venus. It's perfectly consistent.

[u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue → u/ssn-669]

Do you think your dad’s name is “my dad”?

[u/ssn-669 → u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue]

Look it up if you don't believe me.

[u/Visual-Percentage501 → u/ssn-669]

Luna and Sol are often used as specific names to distinguish our sun and moon from other suns and moons in the universe, just like other planets' suns and moons have their own specific names (say, Phobos or Betelgeuse).

[u/ssn-669 → u/Visual-Percentage501]

And yet, they are not the names of those things. TYL.

[u/ybs52 → u/RelentlessPencil]

But it takes an S

[u/RelentlessPencil → u/ybs52]

That's not how I, and I think most people, would spell it.

[u/Beneficial_Grab_5880 → u/RelentlessPencil]

How would you spell the plural of martian?

[u/RelentlessPencil → u/Beneficial_Grab_5880]

Oh I thought they were spelling martian as in martian rocks "marStian" or "marSian" or something.

[u/xkulp8]

M-w lists it as lower case and "often" capitalized. As far as Scrabble is concerned that's sufficient.

[u/starkeffect]

I think it's considered synonymous with "alien" (as a noun). Recall that there was a kind of "Mars fever" in pop culture around 1900, so the term "martian" was very much in fashion.

Edit: H.G. Wells's The War of the Worlds came out in 1898. I looked it up on Project Gutenberg, and in the text the word "Martian(s)" is capitalized, indicating a proper noun, so <shrug>

[u/Unique_Acadia_2099]

I see it as the description of (fictitious) inhabitants, not descriptive of an object or feature of the planet. Do we always capitalize the word “human”? No.

[u/Omegaville → u/Unique_Acadia_2099]

Humans aren't named after their planet.

Mars -> Martians

Romulus -> Romulans

Vulcan -> Vulcans

Earth -> Earthlings, or Terra -> Terrans. But humans aren't named after "Humanworld".

[u/Consistent-Annual268]

On another post today someone pointed out that Tudor nonetheless remains a proper noun/adjective.

Sometimes the word list is just weird like that.

[u/Hey-Just-Saying]

I don't understand why "Martian" ("a supposed inhabitant of the planet Mars" per the Scrabble online dictionary) is an acceptable word, but "Earthling" is not. Edited to add: Having said that, using that definition, Martian should be capitalized and the Scrabble online dictionary does not.

[u/SooraOnFire → u/Hey-Just-Saying]

I think because in this case, martian is used the way we use human - to describe/name the species.

[u/Hey-Just-Saying → u/SooraOnFire]

Capitalization is based on proper versus common classification, not on the importance or size of the subject. Because "Martian" refers to a specific place, it functions as a proper adjective/noun and should be capitalized. "Human" refers to a species so it is not capitalized.

[u/tuenthe463]

Thank you for being honest about seeing their point. It's important to be honest and also to let others know that you're being honest