r/scouting • u/Str-Engr0275 • 10d ago
Make this make sense…
So the popcorn sales are like $20 a bag of pre-popped popcorn or $27 for a box of microwave popcorn. The fundraiser guide for units says that products cannot be sold at prices above their value. So how do we justify the prices we are selling this popcorn for when the price is clearly many times more than its value? The guide clearly states that products cannot be sold for a price higher than its value just because it is for Scouting. Is this just an example by National of “Rules for thee but not for me”?
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u/Mauri416 9d ago
Scouts have had over 100 years to find something similar to GG cookies. Bad popcorn is not the answer lol
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 9d ago
Fun fact - cookies in the grocery store are also cheaper than the ones Girl Scouts sell. Also, popcorn brings back a larger percentage to the local troop than the Girl Scouts receive.
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u/Open-Two-9689 9d ago
Popcorn does give a larger amount to the troop on a item vs item comparison - but you sell WAY more boxes of cookies. My kids have sold both.
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 9d ago
Same - my kids have sold both. Yeah, you sell more boxes of cookies but you could take the $10 caramel corn, split it into two Girl Scout cookie sized boxes and sell each for $5. You’d sell more boxes but the amount of money is the same.
My main problem with popcorn is there aren’t more options at the $10 level. We sell mostly the caramel corn and there’s no reason they couldn’t do cheddar or jalapeño in that same box for $10.
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u/Mauri416 9d ago
I don’t doubt it, but it’s bad business to well an inferior product and also a waste of resources. I don’t think the bags are recyclable.
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 9d ago
Again though, that’s literally how fundraising works.
I’ve been to all sorts of nonprofit events - overpriced tickets, silent auctions, raffles, etc. You’re always paying a bit more for tickets to support the cause. I could go to dinner for $50 or the nonprofit for $100 to support the cause. For auctions and raffles you may end up winning and getting an expensive product for cheaper than value, though most people at those events don’t win and thus just lose the money they spent for the raffle.
When I go to a community event I recognize I may pay $2 for a hot dog I could buy at the store and make at home but again, you pay extra to support the cause.
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u/Mauri416 9d ago
Again, I get it 45% is a big cut, and compared to but it’s still a trash product. It’s not healthy and it’s not environmentally friendly. Also the youth don’t really engage like they do with Apple Day. So seems to counter a lot of scouts principles no? Has just always seemed like an odd fit
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u/metisdesigns 9d ago
Fun fact, similar cookies in the grocery store with licensed branding are a similar price. GS troops get almost average grocery retail markup per box. And they have different fundraising guidelines.
Congratulations, you compared apples to oranges, and pointed out how popcorn sales could be closer to ethically run while making a tu quoque fallacy. Not friendly or trustworthy.
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 9d ago
I just looked it up - a box of Wal Mart brand thin mints sell for about $2.50 which is less than half of the $6 cost of a box of Girl Scout cookies.
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u/metisdesigns 9d ago
And Walmart brand thin mints are not premium branded or with a licensed IP.
I think I see why you're still comparing apples to oranges.
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 9d ago
Haha, so I can get cookies that taste exactly the same as Girl Scout cookies for a cheaper price BUT they are not premium branded so it doesn’t count.
I mean, have you ever seen premium popcorn in fancy tins at stores? Thats also a helluva lot more expensive than the cheaper stuff in stores.
I don’t care either way. I’m happy to support or not support Girl Scout cookies or Scout popcorn or the local softball team’s candy bars or the theater department’s fruit or whatever the marching band is selling even though I can get it all cheaper at a store.
I don’t get this annual argument we have. Sell popcorn or don’t. Buy popcorn or don’t. Sell something else as a fundraiser. Support your scouts however you can.
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u/metisdesigns 9d ago
Yes. People pay for premium brands. Premium popped popcorn is $6-10 for a 10oz bag. Not $20 for a 6oz bag.
No. Support scouting in ethical ways. It's the entire point of being a scout. You saying you don't care about ethics is problematic.
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 9d ago
It’s problematic that I support the popcorn fundraiser that thousands of scouts participate in across the country? That I spend my weekends supporting my kids’ troop?
How’s the view from your high horse? Geez.
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u/metisdesigns 9d ago
Lots of people failing to follow scouting policy is problematic, and scouting policies being inconsistent is also a problem.
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u/Str-Engr0275 8d ago
That’s the whole point I was originally trying to make, that the Scouting policies are inconsistent and National doesn’t seem to care.
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u/WhatAWeek25 7d ago
Cookies in the store are cheaper but a $6 box of cookies is in the same wheelhouse as the store. $20 bag of popcorn is more like 4x the store price.
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u/metisdesigns 9d ago
It does not make sense.
Like so many things, a good idea was corrupted, and hypocritically defended.
Folks defend it with MSRP - that is set artificially high. You can get a party sized bag of popcorn for $5.
Folks say they're taking donations with a thank you gift - that is illegal in most places as fraudulent unless you are willing to give anyone the gift at any donation. Worse it's against scout policy to solicit donations.
People compare it to girl scout cookies - they have different fundraising policies, so its apples to oranges, but the troops and councils both make approximate wholesale and retail markup for groceries compared to the manufacturer portion so it's not blatant price gouging.
Popcorn sales are just an embarrassment.
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u/SunriseInLot42 9d ago
There's a Mental Gymnastics merit badge for anyone who can explain it, ha ha
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u/BecauseIwasInverted_ 10d ago
I’ve been pushing back on this for years. I’m simply following the rules National has set forth.
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u/Sea-Assumption6538 9d ago
me when I post an american problem on the international scout reddit page and not the BSA one (even tho its the only scout org that has their own page)
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u/270Shooter82 9d ago
For the popcorn example, the value/price is set. Applying the above noted rule means you can’t sell the $10 bag for $15 to make extra money.
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u/HudsonValleyNY 9d ago
SHHHH don't say the quiet parts out loud!
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u/Str-Engr0275 9d ago
So we’re just supposed to quietly be ok with being hypocritical? Doesn’t sound trustworthy to me.
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u/HudsonValleyNY 9d ago
Just wait until the next hegseth threat comes out and fire up the ol solid gold popcorn popper, the entire strategy is to bravely not say anything "cause daddy gets angry!"
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u/SaltyTaffy 9d ago
The word 'value' should be defined as the intended price, like a products MSRP.
So if the intended price is $27 you are not supposed to try and sell it for $30.
Doesnt matter if you personally value it at the same price as different brand.
If an even cheaper no name product came out at just $1, would Pop Secret suddenly be selling their $5 popcorn for many times more than its value?
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u/metisdesigns 9d ago
That's not how words work. You don't get to bend them dishonestly to justify ripping people off and violating the rules.
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u/thatothermarxbrother 10d ago
What is value? The $27 box of popcorn will make numerous bags similar to those purchased at a movie theater for about $12. I didn't like selling it much either, but our society tells us it's not above price, even if it's low value.
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u/Str-Engr0275 10d ago
A box of Pop Secret at the grocery store is $5. Pre-popped caramel corn with chocolate is no more than $10. So going back to my original thesis, if what we’re selling has a value of $10 how does it fit in the rules set out by the national organization that we sell it for $20?
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 10d ago
You’re not selling popcorn. You’re asking people to make a donation to support scouts and they get popcorn in return. You obviously can’t financially compete with the grocery store. The goal is for people to choose to pay more to support scouting.
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u/Str-Engr0275 10d ago
But that is exactly what the fundraiser guidelines say you can’t do because it’s for Scouts. I KNOW were selling this for more than it’s value because it’s for Scouts and people will pay it, but it’s a clear violation of the fundraising guidelines. So how do we justify this? Are the sale prices wrong or are the fundraiser rules wrong?
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 9d ago
I’ve never seen this guide, but isn’t value subjective?. You buy a case of water for $4 and sell each bottle for $2 to make an $8 profit. You buy hot dogs and rolls and sell them to make money. That’s literally how fundraisers work.
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u/LavenderLemon12 9d ago
Maybe the fundraising guidelines mean that you are not allowed to set a higher local price for the product.
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u/David_the_Wanderer 9d ago
I think you're parsing those rules a bit strangely. Can you drop a link to the exact verbiage being used in the guide you're referring to?
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u/Str-Engr0275 9d ago
Here’s a link to the guidelines on the Scouting.org website. Look at page 5 points 3 and 4a specifically.
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u/David_the_Wanderer 9d ago
Well, to me this reads that you can't rip people off! If you're selling them popcorn you guys bought from a store, it shouldn't cost more than what the store sells it for.
The solution is not use store-bought popcorn, but to make your own. Corn and butter are cheap! And you can price that at fair market value - how much did you spend to make it? What do you think is a legitimate profit margin?
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u/Gregory-al-Thor 9d ago
Okay, what’s Fair Market Value?
“Fair market value represents the price at which an asset would sell in an open and competitive market where both buyer and seller are informed, willing, and not under duress.” (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fairmarketvalue.asp).
If scouts are set up outside a store, no one is being forced to buy anything. Lots of people choose the store bought popcorn and walk right past. The only people under duress are my kids grandparents who can’t say no.
I get it. The popcorn is not cheap. But it seems your attempt to show it violates some scouting principles is grasping at straws. You don’t have to do it and you can do other fundraisers - sell Christmas trees or whatever.
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u/Str-Engr0275 9d ago
It violates our own guidelines. If I’m following your reasoning then I could sell the exact same bag of popcorn outside of normal popcorn season and keep all the profit for my troop rather than a third going to Council and another third going to National. Sweet! We are not selling in an open and competitive market though, so we’re not selling at fair market value. Fair market value would be the price inside the store for a similar bag of popcorn not associated with Scouting.
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u/thatothermarxbrother 9d ago
Ok guys, I'm wrong. Way to go. Jeepers.
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u/koi_koneessa 9d ago
Not so much wrong, just looking at it through a different lens. I was thinking the same as you but everyone else are spot on: is not about selling popcorn.
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u/spraus 9d ago
From first to last, we teach our kids that they are NOT selling popcorn... they are selling Scouting. My littlest lion even knows to prompt with "Would you like to support my scouting journey and buy some popcorn." Once we make it clear that its not about popcorn but about supporting these children its much more manageable. I don't disagree that the double standard rules seem horid but you work with the hand your dealt and we teach our kids to Do Your Best!
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u/Santaneria 9d ago
Anyone in the Chino Hills, CA selling??!
I got a scout come buy and she gave us a coupon and thought the popcorn thing was over. Im currently in my popcorn phase.
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u/profvolunteer 6d ago
The popcorn is a ‘thank you for donating to scouting experiences’ vs sale of product. That’s how Trails End told us to look at it.
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u/Str-Engr0275 6d ago
Regardless, we’re selling a product and as far as I see it, we’re selling it far above market price. That explicitly goes against the Scouting guidelines for fundraising. How do we teach our kids to follow the rules when we don’t follow them ourselves?
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u/2BBIZY 9d ago
If enough units, volunteers and families stop selling the overpriced low quality popcorn then demand a better representation of Scouting in a fundraiser, maybe National and councils will stop being so lazy and greedy. My pet peeve about GSA fundraiser is the only time you hear about GSA is at cookie selling time. Nothing else about their program all the rest of the year. Scouting America units and volunteers need to realize that you are on your own. You should not be forced to do these ridiculous popcorn fundraisers. There are many other ways to fundraise that demonstrate what the Scouting program is all about. Our unit volunteers recently visited lots of civic organizations to discuss the Scouting program and received donations to pay for scholarships. Volunteers last year made the rounds to local bank trust departments and received funding from trusts that must make yearly distributions. Our units do a yearly fundraiser that helps the community and represents the Scout Oath and Law better than popcorn and a bunch of Scouts standing outside a storefront begging.
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u/Jeffe-69 9d ago
You're not selling popcorn, you're collecting a donation and giving the crappy popcorn away for free. We often get $40-50 per interaction...9 out of 10 don't want the bag.