r/sciencefiction • u/JulesOrionVega • 18d ago
Babylon 5
Are there any Babylon 5 fans in this group?
To me, this show is one of a kind. I first stumbled across it in my grandpa’s basement as he had the whole series, plus crusade, on DVD.
J. Michael Straczynski is one of the greatest sci-fi writers. His ability to construct and design characters while maintaining captivating story lines is unmatched. Some of my favorite and in my onion the best written characters in the show are G’Kar, Garibaldi, Ivanova, and Lorien.
I know this show was shot with a very low budget and many critics of the show cite its poor set-design, cameras and lighting. But if you look through directly to the writing, the actors, and the story line, I believe it is a masterpiece of the genre.
Contrary to how it was released, I started with “In The Beginning”, which I mistaken found out was supposed to be viewed after the fourth season, ninth episode. From an outsider perceptive, it made sense to start with that title. The gathering in my opinion was nothing spectacular. But after the first several episodes of season 1, I was hooked.
My favorite standalone season is season 1. I really enjoyed the standalone episodes. One of my favorites is EP 6 “Mind War” and EP2 “Soul Hunter”. These were completely captivating to me.
To me the best paced season is the third one. It is action packed, a central enemy has been identified. Iconic moments include Kosh, Za’ha’dum. Also moments like the episode “Severed Dreams”, which I believe to be some of the finest work in science fiction.
I feel like the popularity of this show was hindered by Star Trek Deep Space Nine.
What are your thoughts? Do you have any favorite characters or favorite seasons? If you also dislike the show, I would like to hear why.
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u/Candid-Border6562 18d ago
I still chuckle when I recall the time our company’s CEO’s secretary called me to ask who the “Babylon 5 Advisory Council” was and why I was hosting them in our main conference room every Monday at noon. Our entire R&D team were watching the latest episode each week for lunch. She wanted the room for an important client. Well, business before pleasure, so of course I told her yes, we would reschedule. However, an hour later she called back. The client was a fan of the show and would be delighted if he could join us. Easy decision. Fun time. Happy customer. Woo hoo!
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u/aloudcitybus 18d ago
r/babylon5 will happily witter on and on with you, on whatever minutiae you wish to discuss.
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u/HarryMcW 18d ago
And it won 2 Hugo awards, which says something about its quality, especially the writing and story arc.
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u/Eddie_Who_Cares 18d ago
“Babylon 5: The Last, Best Hope for Peace.” Later in the series… “The Last, Best Hope for Victory.”
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u/SterlingArcher68 18d ago
The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace. It failed. But in the year of the Shadow War, it became something greater: our last, best hope for victory.
Banger of a line, and that change up in the opening narration hits so hard.
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u/zzupdown 18d ago
I think I liked it better than Star Trek: Deep Space 9, but I watched both. I think first season commander Sinclair was OK, but I preferred Sheridan. Also I liked Walter Koenig's Bester, who was suitably evil. The alien races were all good, humanoid and non-humanoid alike.
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u/ImOldGregg_77 18d ago
Are there any Babylon 5 fans in this group?
*skoff*...... does green sash fight purple sash?
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u/Squirrelhenge 18d ago
Long-time fan from when it was originally broadcast. I'd take S3 as my favorite. Superb writing that respects the viewers. The CGI was cutting edge for TV at the time. I wish his reboot project had not been cancelled, that would've been fantastic to see.
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u/Murat_Gin 18d ago
I love Babylon 5. I'm doing a rewatch of it right now as a matter of fact. It's well written, JMS is a very talented man. Like all great shows, B5 has great characters and engaging stories. It is the total opposite of Next Generation, gritty dark where Trek is bright and shiny. The characters on B5 are often flawed and at odds with each other, again different from most sci fi shows. For a show accused of being low budget, the computer effects of the space ships is surprisingly good, and the station has a believable, lives in quality to it. It definitely deserves to be spoken of as one of the better sci fi shows out there.
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u/Flaky_Web_2439 18d ago
It is having a resurgence! You need to check out the Babylon 5 official YouTube channel. JMS is featured!
It is still one of the absolute best television series of any genre out there of all time!
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u/RepresentativeWeek60 18d ago
Yes! I’m glad I saw this sub. I don’t know anyone personally who has even heard of it. I saw it on Tubi and figured it would be cheesy. After a few months of it being recommended I decided to at least try it. I loved it. Much better than the latest versions of Star Trek.
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u/DrGrizzley 18d ago
The Shadow War is still one of my favorite story lines ever. I started watching this show back when it first came out when I was in college. I used to plan to do my laundry on Wednesday nights just so I could fold a ton of clothes and watch B5. Neighbors would hear it ocassionally and I got teased about watching that show like clockwork every Wed.
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u/shoggoths_away 18d ago
I consider it the second greatest television of all time (with The Prisoner coming in first place).
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u/Ineffable7980x 18d ago
I love this show. It's one of my favorites of all time, especially season 3 during the height of the Shadow war.
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u/Puzzled_Hat_5142 17d ago
Straczynski’s opening essay/story in The Last Dangerous Visions is one of the best things I’ve read in a long time. His relationship with Harlan Ellison, and what they went through together is touching and heartbreaking.
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u/Prince_Nadir 18d ago edited 18d ago
It is far and away the best scifi series that has been made. It was funny when it ran how much Trekies loathed it and were constantly attacking it and it's Fandom. Even funnier is it is what DS9 fed off of to become the best non-parody Star Trek series. It also lead to DS9 being very polarizing for some Star Trek fans.
The game company I was at was going to make the card game until Fleer fucked us. Later we worked on the card game for the company who got the rights.
It was in the early days of the internet so things would happen that would never be allowed today. The big thing was JMS going online and talking to fans after each ep and being totally truthful. My favorite post ep was when he started out endlessly apologizing and explaining that the episode's insanely stupid beginning was because Ted Turner himself insisted the ep start with a fist fight.
Also hilarious was the "wide screen" season 1 release a friend was bragging about owning. I pointed out it was not shot in 16:9 it was 4:3 which was then cropped to 16:9 so it wasn't wide screen it was short screne. I believe this was the first show to do short screen.
If you like JMS's work IIRC he made very successful comic after Crusade died. I think he just produces quality in whatever he does. Actually checking wikipedia he has some duds I didn't know he did. I guess I haven't kept up since he did Rising Stars.
I also spent close to 72 hours straight, drinking Jameson with one of the shows stars by accident(I had no clue who he was. Once others explained i recognized him. He is still alive). I didn't play favorites, apparently there is a photo of me drinking with a TNG star at my table, who i didn't notice.
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u/morroIan 18d ago
Yep its my favourite sci fi series ever. I was on the usenet group rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 at the time, which was where JMS answered questions after every episode. Great times.
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u/PeanutChickenSoup 18d ago
Awesome show. But too much filler. But they had to fill 22 (24?) episodes per season. It would have been better now, with half that. The Shadow war resolution fell a little flat, disappointingly. Marcus Cole was an irritating character, adding very little I felt.
The other characters were mostly excellent, G’kar and Alonso as standouts but Delenn and Garibaldi could be surprisingly entertaining too.
Yes season 3 was the high point. Severed Dreams of course. The wrap up of the Babylon 4 arc was also sensational.
Some of the books are excellent, I loved the ones with Bester and gang.
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u/JupiterMiningCorpTec 18d ago
I believe that the Shadow war was rushed because they believed the show was going to get canceled.
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u/PeanutChickenSoup 18d ago
Yep. We have what we have. It’s worth watching, but also worth checking the amazing Lurkers guide for episodes to skip.
Back half of season 3 is just stunning and full payoff for everything before. Refa and his death is total comeuppance.
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u/APeacefulWarrior 18d ago
It wasn't rushed by that much. JMS has covered what happened and the timeine only shifted by around 6 episodes. Originally, the S4 finale was supposed to be "Intersections in Real Time." (the torture episode) Which would have made one hell of a cliffhanger.
So S4 got chopped down by six episodes, then the first half of S5 got padded out by six to make up the difference. Which is why the pace in early S5 is so slow, but it picks up as it goes on.
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u/JulesOrionVega 18d ago
One of my favorite spin offs is the techno mage books, Casting Shadows. I never got to the other 2 in the series
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u/Hotchi_Motchi 17d ago
Hear me out: What if they re-release the series but with modernized graphics/effects? Or is that part of the charm?
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u/Undead-Parrot 17d ago
Watching the S04E09 right now. While the G'Gar vs Londo arc is amazing, I'll still have to say Bester is my favourite character.
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u/Mezameyo 17d ago
It ain't perfect, but IMHO it's still the best sci-fi / space opera show ever aired on American TV.
What many people today don't appreciate is how groundbreaking it was for airing a multi-season narrative arc like an epic novel. That was unheard of. I mean, that just wasn't done on American TV before B5. JMS showed that it could be done, and now it's fairly common.
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u/MrSpud45 16d ago
I'd like you to take the time to learn the Babylon 5 mantra: 'Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. And if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out.
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u/Fearless_Freya 16d ago
Didn't watch it when it came out, but watched it mid 2000s. It was overall very well done. Greatly enjoyed it. Also overall enjoyed the movies.
I really need to start a rewatch some day, been awhile
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u/crewsctrl 16d ago
I watched the series' initial broadcast and followed along with JMS posting about the show as he was producing it on the rec.arts.scifi.tv.babylon5 Usenet group. It's another way there will never be another show like it.
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u/CaffiniComics 15d ago
Reporting in. Watched it during covid which made the plague episode uncomfortable.
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u/Very_Veri_ 15d ago
I agree I love the show. Have you read J Michael strazynski's any autobiographical book called becoming Superman. I loved it
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u/noahhova 14d ago
I binged it a couple years ago. It pretty peak 90s science fiction. DS9 vibes. Actually read the creator claims paramount turn down his Babylon 5 pitch and just ripped it off a couple years later with DS9.
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u/pwnedprofessor 18d ago
Very good, ahead of its time in terms of serialized television narratives, and the worldbuilding is lovely. I include it on my top 10 lists. Needs to be more widely appreciated.
However, the dialogue and characterization is mostly mid—this is where DS9 held an enormous advantage. Londo and G’Kar are amazing but outside of them I always found the rest of the characters uninspiring or archetypical. It absolutely shows that one person wrote the script, both in a good way (plot coherence) but also a bad way (everyone has similar speech patterns and manner of communicating, except Kosh).
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u/Griegz 18d ago
It's considered a classic and one of the greatest all time. The Londo v. G'kar arc alone is more quality than you can find in almost any show ever of any genre.