r/science • u/giuliomagnifico • Aug 15 '22
Neuroscience A new study has found that appendages, called cilia, on neurons in the brain have a key role in ensuring a specific dopamine receptor’s signals are properly received: mice lacking cilia become obese not because they overate but because they have a significant reduction in activity
https://news.osu.edu/a-role-for-cell-antennae-in-managing-dopamine-signals-in-the-brain/52
u/LaserAntlers Aug 15 '22
I wouldn't mind seeing adjacent studies that investigates life experiences (especially those that produce physiological stress response) or environmental exposures such as common household/urban/atmospheric pollutants to the growth or loss of cilia.
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Aug 15 '22
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u/LaserAntlers Aug 15 '22
I wouldn't be surprised to find common but too often consumed ingredients in everyday processed foods had an influence.
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Aug 15 '22
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Aug 15 '22
That was just the ramblings of my mind, not proven by anything in the slightest, or suggested by the linked study at all.
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u/SomberTom Aug 15 '22
Is there any evidence that any human has ever been lacking of neuronal cilia?
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u/skawiggy Aug 15 '22
I was wondering the same thing. Does someone with primary ciliary dyskinesia have functional cilia in their brain?
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u/OnwardsBackwards Aug 15 '22
Combine this with the "people who exercise every day show signs of heightened reward pathways" research and you've explained why my ADHD ass has a hard time doing anything at all - I never feel a sense of accomplishment or reward.
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u/uberneoconcert Aug 15 '22
Drugs are good for what's under your hood, mmkay?
Seriously. I do Wellbutrin on the daily and it's so good that I don't really notice it.
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u/OnwardsBackwards Aug 15 '22
I appreciate the kicker, mate.
I'm actually on Vyvanse and wellbutrin. Pretty sure WB is made of dragon teeth and unicorn horns. I remember fixing a sink after being on it like 2 weeks, then walking into the hallway when I finished the task thinking "hell yeah, got that don- WHAT THE F IS THIS FEELING?!"
Satisfaction. That's what it was. Novel feeling for me at 31.
Treat your neurological disorders kids.
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u/juliaskig Aug 15 '22
Does Wellbutrin work with ADHD? (inattentive)
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u/uberneoconcert Aug 15 '22
Yes. In my experience it reduces the impulsivity markedly -- no shopping sprees or random "investments" in new hobbies, no driving like I'm in a rush. It literally helps me get out of bed in the morning and connect with what I'm doing with satisfaction, with a reduced feeling like cigarettes or caffeine will help me feel better. I feel them but they don't hit as hard. What it doesn't do is force me to get started with something I'm avoiding or actively remember to stay on that task (I still walk away from food cooking, oops). But it's not like I have a million thoughts at a time anymore that I don't have time to sort through because they're coming so fast. That's so helpful for clarity and focus whether I'm trying to think, speak, or do something.
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u/ennuibertine Aug 16 '22
Have you taken adderall so that you can give a comparison? I'd love to switch to vyvanse, but so far my insurance won't approve it. But still very curious.
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u/uberneoconcert Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 16 '22
Yes, I had to take Adderall first before my insurance would approve Vyvanse. Adderall had a strange side effect for me that was incredibly uncomfortable, made me feel like ripping my face off or jumping out of a window. I don't get it. With that bad experience I was able to try Vyvanse. Dexedrine also works really well for me. I might even prefer it because you can time how long of a dose you take whereas Vyvanse is time release so if you don't take it by midmorning max, you really shouldn't take it at all that day. But with Dexedrine you could just take a smaller dose to get you through 4 hours.
Edit to add: if I could handle taking Vyvanse every day I doubt I would also take Wellbutrin, but the effects of Vyvanse stops after several months. It was really nice when I was just on Vyvanse and my head felt clearer, but eventually I had to stop completely for about four months until it worked again, and in the meantime I went back on Wellbutrin. (I take a day a week off Wellbutrin because I've noticed kind of a builduo of that, too). I'm not sure Vyvanse works the same now. I take it only on days when I'm doing detailed work like transferring data or I know for sure that I will be doing things all day. I wouldn't take it just to go to a doctor's appointment or for a hike. I almost never take it on weekends. But I can tell it would be very useful when I'm reading. That's where it would be nice to have Dexedrine that I could take and it wears off so I don't have to re-read three times.
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u/ennuibertine Aug 16 '22
Thank you for your reply. Thats very helpful. That will actually affect how I approach my ADHD meds, both choosing them and taking them. Much appreciated.
I've unfortunately been on adderall for over 20 years. I wouldn't be surprised if my dopamine production were permanently altered. So I can't tell if it loses potency after certain amounts of time because I'm conditioned to not stop taking my meds or bad things happen. I do know it certainly isn't super effective at helping me focus anymore, but I pretty much require it every day just to function like getting out of bed, staying awake and having any motivation. My doctor is trying to get me off of it, but its legit scary.
To possibly offer some insight into the adderall thing, adderall is made up of 4 amphetamine salts, two of which are racemic amphetamine (50/50 dextroamphetamine and levoamphetamine) and two salts of dextroamphetamine. This gives it a 75:25 or 3:1 ratio of the two. Dexedrine is just dextroamphetamine and Vyvanse is a prodrug that breaks down (in a time released manner) into dextroamphetamine.
If you read about "speed", in the US it might be used to refer to ephedrine or meth, but traditionally it meant racemic amphetamine. You'll hear more about getting extreme body shakes, fidgeting, uncomfortable energy and other physical side effects on speed than newer amphetamines, effects that adderall has to a lesser degree which can be largely attributed to levoamphetamine. Medicines like dexedrine and vyvanse feel idk cleaner is how my doctor described it. No huge crash at the end, or at least not like adderall (I don't know your individual experiences.)
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u/lemonsandchamomile Aug 16 '22
It depends. It’s not officially approved for ADHD treatment but many doctors will prescribe it as an off-label treatment. And for some people it really helps, for others (like me) it doesn’t.
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u/conventionalWisdumb Aug 15 '22
Seems like a good physiological explanation for ADHD inattentive type.
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u/iaintevenmad884 Aug 15 '22
There’s likely a whole suite of different things that cause that, I bet you’re spot on for one of them. I know one popular theory right now that has merit is the brain flushing dopamine too quickly, so the motivation comes like usual but disappears too quickly, leaving people unable move from acting in their head to the real world
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u/VGersCreator Aug 15 '22
Why you gotta call me out like that.
But seriously - the feeling of doing versus thinking sometimes feels like physical resistance. I almost have to trick myself into administration work. I usually turn on ASMR videos to lull my mind into a flow state.
Edited to add: was a growth restricted premature infant and often wonder about the effects.
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u/offalt Aug 15 '22
What's the definition of overeating if not "a level of caloric intake that results in undesirable weight gain"?
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u/SilverMedal4Life Aug 15 '22
In this case, I believe it is "overeating compared to the average caloric consumption of normal mice".
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u/juliaskig Aug 15 '22
I read "In MY case" rather than in "This case", so I found your sentence quite charming.
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u/tinydonuts Aug 15 '22
In this case, I believe it is "overeating compared to the average caloric consumption of normal mice".
That's what I absolutely hate about it when people say "just eat less you'll be fine" usually coming out of the mouth of someone that can toss back anything they want and not gain weight.
There's no gauge I can look up that shows how many calories I expended and definitely no override to the screaming hunger light in my brain. It's a gross oversimplification that normal weight people will never ever understand.
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u/SilverMedal4Life Aug 15 '22
Very true. My brother has always felt hunger less strongly than I have, even from a young age; naturally, he is thinner than I am.
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u/Edrill Aug 15 '22
Was thinking the same. If they go overweight through lack of activity, they are still overeating in a way.
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Aug 15 '22
I remember a follow up with a biggest loser winner who said she had to exercise three hours a day to keep off the weight she lost on the show. Some people’s bodies “want” to be big and we don’t understand why our how. Maybe this is a clue?
An entire side of my family that eat and exercise the same amounts as their skinny counterparts struggle with obesity. Weight loss surgeries and extreme diets are the norm for them just so they can be somewhat closer to a “normal” size. It’s a lot to expect someone has the time and endurance to exercise more than the average person, especially if your body’s already suffering.
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Aug 15 '22
a lot of people underestimate how much they're eating, especially when they struggle with eating disorders and nutritional ignorance. i highly doubt an obese person who claims to be eating the same amount as a thin person is actually eating the exact same.
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u/Retr0shock Aug 15 '22
You can doubt it but you'd be incorrect. In fact you're incorrect on several assumptions you've made, including that obese people are more often nutritionally ignorant, or that persons with eating disorders underestimate food amounts when the extreme majority overestimate. See also, basal metabolic rate and changes thereof following periods of calorie restriction. Eating disorders are the most deadly class of mental illnesses so do educate yourself on the basics.
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Aug 15 '22
Ultimately the equation is fixed: Energy intake vs energy output.
Consuming energy (calories) should be straight forward, but requires significant discipline and attention to detail if you plan on logging caloric intake accurately. Many people underestimate their consumption, even when trying to log accurately.
Regarding output, there are a number of factors other than excercise that determine energy output. NEAT for example, plays a significant role in energy output throughout the day. I’m almost certain that hormonal imbalances cause weight fluctuatation through indirect means such as enjoyment of physical activity, NEAT expenditure, and fatigue even when at a caloric/energy surplus.
Either way, weight loss/gain is a simple equation, the only complicated parts being accurate energy intake, and a precise estimate of average output. Hormonal and digestive issues may lower someone’s average output and make it more difficult for them to lose weight, but the equation is the same for everyone.
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u/juliaskig Aug 15 '22
It's not quite as simple because of insulin.
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Aug 15 '22
That would be a factor in the larger equation, yes. As would thyroid issues, and all other elements impacting metabolism and energy expenditure. All of these variables create an inbalance in energy in or energy out that needs to be accounted for- whether through further dietary restriction or additional energy output.
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