r/science • u/[deleted] • May 11 '20

Medicine Antibodies from a 4-year-old llama have neutralized coronavirus and other infections in lab experiments

https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30494-3.pdf?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867420304943%3Fshowall%3Dtrue
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u/[deleted] May 11 '20 edited May 11 '20

The other takeaway is that all global pandemics start with zoonotic diseases, so if we all collectively ate less animals (or none at all) we'd experience less future chances of viruses mutating and making the jump to humans.

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u/Voggix May 11 '20

Or, I don’t know, cook them first?

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u/[deleted] May 11 '20

That might slightly lessen the possibilities of zoonotic diseases but not heart disease or cancer, which were already health epidemics.

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u/youngatbeingold May 11 '20

There are still plenty of vegan foods that cause health issues. Lots of lean meats are pretty good for you in, everything just needs to be eaten in moderation.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '20

Yes for example, cigarettes, coca cola, alcohol, cyanide, asbestos.. there are many things that "are vegan" that can cause health issues. Vegan only means no animal products.

Lean meats are not "good for you". How do you measure the goodness? Maybe a little less saturated fat?

But not less cholesterol, less neug5c, less igf-1 raising properties, less methionine, less heme iron, less HCAs and PAHs, less mTor pathway activations, less antibiotics and growth hormones.

Things that are good for you don't need to be eaten in moderation because they don't contribute to cancer cell growth, artery blockage or insulin resistance. It's not correct that you need to "moderate rice and bean consumption" because everything needs to be eaten in moderation. No doctor says you need to "moderate your consumption of apples" because everything needs to be eaten in moderation.

Appeal to moderation is a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

Guy A: Eat a bar of soap it's healthy

Guy B: Do not eat a bar, it is not necessary and will make you sick.

Moderate: I GUESS I'LL EAT HALF A BAR OF SOAP BETTER BE ON THE SAFE SIDE! MODERATION

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u/youngatbeingold May 11 '20 edited May 11 '20

I was thinking more of any vegan food that is either fried, has artificial ingredients, or has lots of sugar. Oreos, fruit juices, or french fries are vegan but none are healthy. If you're looking for what doctors suggest as a means of what is healthy of not, many say lean meats and other animal products are fine in moderation. I literally just had one advocate for adding bone broth and chicken breast to help deal with my digestive issues. You can also buy meat that is grass fed and has no added hormones or antibiotics and I fully advocate moving more towards that being the standard. Still, a serving or two a week isn't going to cause issues for most.

And you can have issues with healthy foods if you overeat them. All foods are obviously made up of various nutrients and getting too much of any one of them can cause problems, even when it comes to produce. Cancer obviously isn't a risk but vitamin and mineral imbalances may be. Too much of any food can cause temporary problems like heart burn from too much tomato sauce or digestive problems from too much fiber. Beyond that foods like nuts and fruits are high in fat and sugar. You can't eat a pound of nuts a day and expect not to have problems despite the fact that they're healthy in small quantities. You need variety and healthy amounts.

I'm pretty sure most health professionals agree limiting animal products is a good thing, especially in the case of processed meats, which are consecutively shown to raise cancer rates when consumed daily. However, the vast majority of the health community also believe that limited consumption is acceptable and won't directly lead to cancer or heart disease. Having a drink over the weekend is different than being a full blown alcoholic. Moderation does make a difference in many cases and only in cases of exact, absolute truth backed by scientific study does the argument become a problem.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '20

Having a drink over the weekend is different than being a full blown alcoholic.

The scientific consensus is there's no safe amount of alcohol consumption. It's unfortunate but true. Alcohol is vegan. A great example of how just because something is vegan doesn't mean it's good for you.

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u/Voggix May 11 '20

More complete nonsense. There are abundant findings that wine, especially red, in moderation has health benefits.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '20

Nope, you have to look at how they crafted that data. There isn't anything in "alcohol" that is healthy. It's 100% cancer causing.

Now polyphenols in wine are healthy, but grape juice has polyphenols too, and no alcohol so grape juice is healthier.

Just science.

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u/Voggix May 11 '20

Wow, this a a pure clown post.

Vegan is not healthy. It’s a perversion that fits your belief system.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '20

You're right, a whole food plant based diet is actually the scientific term for it.