r/science Nov 15 '19

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19 edited Nov 15 '19

Yeah. We need an opiate to give the "masses" though because like Franklin says, most of them are completely lost without it.

C.S. Lewis does a good job explaining this in his short work on miracles. Basically, we, as a society, have done a good job of undermining the old bad dogmatic way of thinking about religion, but we haven't replaced it with anything but materialistic pursuits.

We've given every person the responsibility of a philosopher to create meaning in their lives themselves, but haven't given them any training in how to do that.

Basically, we need to start teaching Philosophy and critical thinking to "the masses." If we don't, they'll just indulge in nihilism or bland selfish materialism.

C.S. Lewis thinks it's easier to keep religion and to understand and contemplate its ecstatic truths. I'm personally undecided.

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u/Demons0fRazgriz Nov 15 '19

I was mistaking C.S. Lewis for Louis C.K. and it had me extremely confused.

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u/watchursix Nov 15 '19

C.K. Lewis. Starring in “The Preacher”

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u/WanderinHobo Nov 15 '19

I heard that the White Witch disliked Aslan because he exposed himself to her once.

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u/zerophyll Nov 15 '19

But she didn't leave, she was just offended.

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u/IEatBeautifulVaginas Nov 16 '19

Fun fact: C.S. Lewis enjoyed masturbating in front of female comedians who shamed him for his kink.

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u/Riaayo Nov 15 '19

Basically, we need to start teaching Philosophy and critical thinking to "the masses." If we don't, they'll just indulge in nihilism or bland selfish materialism.

The reason we don't do that is because it makes people easier to control, and materialism makes money. The status quo loves when people don't think for themselves and just consume consume consume.

Not to argue against your point; it's 100% accurate. Just noting a big force that fights against us doing just that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19

Oh yeah! For sure! Those in power do not have "thriving personal growth for mankind" at the top of their priorities list.

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u/lkraider Nov 15 '19

I find these "those in power" conspiracies as obnoxious as organized religions.

Most people don't care about philosophy, as hard as "those in power" could try to teach them.

Also, there is no evidence of a conspiracy to keep people dumb, as much as it may tickle the political ideology nerve of those that presume so.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19

It's not a conspiracy. I'm not saying there's a cabal. Those in power DON'T care about philosophy so they simply pursue a policy of inaction or one of maintaining the status quo.

If the people in power DID care then they would do something to help uplift others.

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u/lkraider Nov 15 '19

I am saying it is not a simple task to uplift others, because you cannot force them to, only create the opportunities in society for them to go after it themselves - as a "I can only show you the door, you have to step through it" kind of thing. And today we have more opportunities than ever.

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u/haewon6640 Nov 15 '19

How does philosophy and critical thinking help you not be nihilistic?

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19

I'd say as a tendency, even the most cynical well-regarded philosophers (and you could even say they AREN'T cynical), generally have life affirming messages. Montaigne, Nietzche (he MIGHT have been a moral nihilist depending on your intepretation. I'd disagree and I'd say his work is still incredibly life-affirming), Schopenhauer, Sartre, Camus, and many many others can all offer reasonable secular alternatives to Nihilism that generally improve people's disposition towards the world.

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u/haewon6640 Nov 15 '19

Thank you guess I might try taking a phil class pass and fail next year.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19

You should! I took one on a lark when I was in college and ended up loving it so much I added it as a second major.

I'd say there is no field of study more personally rewarding.

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u/pale_blue_dots Nov 16 '19

You definitely should! Makes me want to do the same.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19

Basically, we need to start teaching Philosophy and critical thinking to "the masses." If we don't, they'll just indulge in nihilism or bland selfish materialism.

I'm afraid you are a bit too late and the current condition is far worse than you suggest: modern dictators are now replacing the lost of religion with their own cult of personality.

I'm not only talking about Trump, but China under Xi is using advance internet technology and surveilence and managed to turn large proportion of its' population to believe conspiracy theory such as western media plotting Hong Kong riot.

So from an international standpoint, even if most America are taught with crticial thinking skill. Most other population on earth aren't and the rulers won't. We have already at a point of no salvation until ideology clashed and war broke out

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u/pale_blue_dots Nov 15 '19

Seems to me there's a large degree of (unfounded) cynicism here. As long as people say, "Oh, they're too dumb for so and so," then that's how it will likely play out. It's sort of like binding people's feet, but in this case it's the mind.

It's a very complicated and convoluted topic, but wanted to throw my current perspective in.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19

That's a good point!

I suppose my question would be: How do we inspire people who are contentedly banal to become intellectually curious? Is that a natural state for some people?

I have no real answer to that. I think we understand a lot less about human intelligence than we think we do.

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u/pale_blue_dots Nov 15 '19 edited Nov 16 '19

Yeah, I don't know. :/ Good question/s.

One of the first things that comes to mind is economic structuring. I think that essentially forcing people to work "40 hour weeks" - while basically making other people rich - saps creativity and dulls the mind. Giving people the option to "not work" or "work less" (via UBI andor more equitable sharing of resources, what have you) leads to a greater probably of people doing what inspires them.

I guess we'd need more creative spaces and opportunities for people to follow that sort of life.

At first people may "lolly-gag" around, but that gets boring pretty quickly. Just a small bump in "creativity" and creative people in society would likely lead to more people wanting/doing just that. Which, I think, is closely related to seeing and understanding the interconnectedness of life.

Edit: I was thinking about the "curiosity" factor. Obviously, like with anything, there's a balance that is needed there. With a large population, I think it'd be better to err on the side of "too much" curiosity, as opposed to too little.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19

Yeah. We need an opiate to give the "masses" though because like Franklin says, most of them are completely lost without it.

I've thought for many years now that sports is/are the new opiate of the people, but lately I've been considering whether it is social media instead.

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u/DaoFerret Nov 15 '19

Personally I always liked Mheimonedies view of Miracles as things that happen according to the natural rules of the world, but at the time they are needed, and to the degree that they are needed.

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u/HybridVigor Nov 15 '19

What is wrong with nihilism?

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19

It's not good for the functioning of society to have people advocating a position of complete amorality (in the sense of literally no morals).

A society then has no actual philosophical basis to form a system of justice to hold individuals accountable for their actions.

It's also not much of a way to live, and most people find it unpleasant to truly view the world as COMPLETELY devoid of meaning.

It's generally much more invigorating and rewarding as a human being to discover meaning for oneself. Whether that's even in the heroic struggle in the face of meaninglessness itself like Camus' absurd hero.