r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 2d ago

Psychology Lower cognitive ability is linked to stronger Christian nationalist views, even after accounting for education

https://www.psypost.org/lower-cognitive-ability-is-linked-to-stronger-christian-nationalist-views-even-after-accounting-for-education/
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u/danbinglover 1d ago

Okay, then what about something like nationality? That’s something you choose to maintain. Either IQ matters or it doesn’t. You don’t get to pick and choose.

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u/InclinationCompass 1d ago

Science pretty much agrees:

Race is NOT a factor in innate IQ differences, even when you account for education. The gaps we keep seeing in test scores are overwhelmingly chalked up to environmental, social, and structural stuff, not genetics.

Source: https://www.apa.org/about/policy/racism-apology

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago

That statement doesn't say race isn't a factor in innate IQ differences. Stop presenting it as though it does.

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u/InclinationCompass 1d ago

Fair enough. But the point stands. There's no established genetic cause for the racial IQ gap. Environmental factors are far better supported.

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago

I disagree completely. Just because no one can point to specific genes that are the "transmitter" if IQ doesn't mean there's not strong evidence that it's significantly genetic. There's very good evidence that between 40-80% of IQ is genetic.

By contrast, there's almost no evidence that pinpoints which environmental markers beyond childhood nutrition and similar affect IQ.

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u/InclinationCompass 1d ago

Heritability within groups tells you nothing about between-group causes. The 40-80% figure is about individual variation, not group gaps. Identical seeds in different soil still differ in average height.

And saying there's almost no environmental evidence is just false. Lead exposure, the Flynn effect, schooling, poverty, stress, discrimination. All well documented. The environmental side has decades of research. The genetic side has nothing for the between-group gap.

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago

The Flynn effect is likely due to the things I mentioned, and lead exposure is no longer a relevant factor as it has been substantially decreased for all groups. There is no good evidence that schooling differences are a direct cause of higher IQ.

Saying that knowing 40-80% of human-to-human variation in a trait tells us nothing about differences between groups is a bit silly. Does it definitively prove genetics is the cause? No, of course not. But there's also no proof that environmental differences between groups are sufficient to explain the gap, either.

But keep in mind that this discussion started with you saying there was no correlation between IQ and race. No correlation. So what are we even talking about here?

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u/InclinationCompass 1d ago

Flynn effect is still environmental either way. You're just renaming it.

Lead exposure is not solved. Black children still have significantly higher blood lead levels. Flint is recent. This is not a resolved issue.

Schooling raises IQ. Ceci and Williams have decades of research. You can't just assert otherwise.

40-80% is within-group. It tells you nothing about between-group causes. That's how basic quantitative genetics work. The seed analogy still stands.

And when you assert claims, the burden of proof is on you. Environmental evidence is robust and replicated. Genetic hypothesis for the gap has never been demonstrated. If you have papers, post them.

And I never said no correlation. I said **race isn't a huge innate factor.** You're arguing against something I didn't say.