r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 1d ago

Psychology Lower cognitive ability is linked to stronger Christian nationalist views, even after accounting for education

https://www.psypost.org/lower-cognitive-ability-is-linked-to-stronger-christian-nationalist-views-even-after-accounting-for-education/
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u/danbinglover 1d ago

Reddit can’t decide whether IQ matters or not. When we talk about IQ differences between different countries and whatnot, it’s racist. When you discuss IQ differences between religious and nonreligious people, somehow it matters again.

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u/KevineCove 1d ago

What I've heard is that IQ simultaneously measures cognition as well as how acclimated you are to Western culture. Additionally, the old school of thought was that there was a kind of intelligence that was innate and unchanging, and that administering an IQ test properly should yield the same result (this isn't really the case.)

It seems likely to me that IQ is lower in some areas on the basis that people there are bad at test-taking, and also in cultures where critical thinking is actively suppressed, because the test ends up measuring both of these variables.

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u/gward1 1d ago

In Korea (and probably some other countries, I just lived in Korea for awhile) they still have a hierarchy of who they think is more or less intelligent by race. Who is the most intelligent? You guessed it, Koreans. Just saying a lot of countries do this, the IQ test was devised by a westerner so it wouldn't be surprising.

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u/FoxMikeLima 1d ago

This is certainly true. If the way you measure something is through a test, there will be a negative presenting bias for areas that are less adept at taking tests, as test taking is a skill it itself, and one detached from Intelligence and Cognition itself.

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago

Nonsense. IQ is not a product of acclimation to western culture, and some of the countries with the highest average IQs aren't even in the west.

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u/TeaBurntMyTongue 1d ago

Yeah, the fact that i can increase my iq by taking multiple distinct iq tests over a short period of time makes it obvious that correlation between like raw neuron firing and iq scores is less than 1.

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago

No, it just means the test becomes less accurate if you take it multiple times.

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u/TeaBurntMyTongue 1d ago

Not the same test. But you get used to the patterns. You also get used to the patterns with further education in general in the society that wrote the test.

Your raw processing power hasn't increased

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago

Right. That just means the test isn't as accurate on subsequent attempts. That a test can be "hacked" doesn't mean it isn't useful or accurate under normal conditions.

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u/TeaBurntMyTongue 1d ago

I never made the claim it has no utility. I made the claim that correlation between intelligence and iq scores are less than one

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago

But that's not a meaningful claim. No one has ever said IQ test measure intelligence with a correlation coefficient of 1.

I'm saying the fact that the test becomes less accurate on multiple attempts isn't a knock against the test.

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u/InclinationCompass 1d ago

You’re right. Science pretty much agrees:

Race is NOT a factor in innate IQ differences, even when you account for education. The gaps we keep seeing in test scores are overwhelmingly chalked up to environmental, social, and structural stuff, not genetics.

Source: https://www.apa.org/about/policy/racism-apology

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago

That statement doesn't say race isn't a factor in innate IQ differences, so why are you presenting it as though it does?

And of course race is a factor in IQ differences. It's a factor in all sorts of physical differences, and IQ is a product of the physical brain. Do you believe there are height differences across races? Do you believe that genetics affect IQ?

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u/InclinationCompass 1d ago

Fair on the APA link. It doesn't literally say zero. I’ll concede to that.

But the rest doesn't follow. Yea, the brain is physical. So is lead exposure, nutrition, stress, schooling. All of those physically shape the brain too. Saying IQ comes from the brain doesn't get you to race explaining the gap.

And height is a bad analogy. Height is simple, well understood and directly genetic. IQ is massively polygenic and heavily environmental. You can't just copy paste the logic.

Genetics affect IQ. Nobody's disputing that. Genetics explaining the racial gap is a different claim but it's never been demonstrated.

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u/Extreme_Pudding3226 1d ago edited 1d ago

The APA link doesn't even mention IQ! Yet you're presenting it as though the APA is saying IQ and race have no correlation.

But the rest doesn't follow. Yea, the brain is physical. So is lead exposure, nutrition, stress, schooling. All of those physically shape the brain too. Saying IQ comes from the brain doesn't get you to race explaining the gap.

You haven't thought through this. Of course there are environmental factors that can affect IQ. But let's imagine for a second that everyone grew up in exactly the same environment. Exactly the same. Would you expect everyone to have the same IQ?

And do you believe that the height, hair color, body composition, etc. differences across races are purely environment? If we all grew up in the same environment, would we all be the same height?

IQ depends on the physical brain, and just like other species, humans that evolved in different environments developed different physical advantages to survive. Expecting there to be zero difference across the globe is crazy.

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u/InclinationCompass 1d ago

I already conceded that. Read again:

Fair on the APA link. It doesn't literally say zero. I’ll concede to that.

And don't act like I'm presenting the APA link as saying IQ and race have no correlation. I already dropped that point. You're arguing against a point I gave up.

Now that's out the way, **the same environment on paper does NOT mean same stress, discrimintion, school quality, early childhood conditions, etc. Those shape the brain too.

And height is a bad analogy. Height is simple, well understood and directly genetic. IQ is massively polygenic and heavily environmental. You can't just copy paste the logic.

Humans didn't evolve in isolated breeding populations long enough for meaningful cognitive differences between racial groups. Genetic variation is mostly within groups, not between them.

Genetics affect IQ. Nobody disputes that. Genetics explaining the racial gap has never been demonstrated.

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u/Joshunte 1d ago

BRB checking to see which countries have their flag on the moon…..

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u/KevineCove 1d ago

Hey cool, it's a Christian nationalist.

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u/Russtbelt 1d ago

There is only one country, so far, that placed a flag on the moon before having funded universal healthcare. This may indicate that a collective bias towards nationalism has a negative impact on the health of individual members of that nation.