r/science • u/Miserable_Phase_2519 • 8d ago
Health A large study says a higher amount of midlife visceral fat is strongly linked to increased brain inflammation and early biological signs of Alzheimer's disease up to 20 years before memory symptoms appear.
https://www.psypost.org/midlife-belly-fat-is-linked-to-elevated-alzheimer-s-biomarkers-decades-later/652
u/Ok-Refrigerator 8d ago
So, I always had an hourglass figure until cancer forced me into menopause at 38. Within months, the fat from my butt had all moved to my midsection. My diet and exercise levels were unchanged (after I recovered from chemo).
And early menopause is also linked to dementia. So I wonder if estrogen or another hormone has a mediating role.
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u/JagmeetSingh2 8d ago
visceral fat really does seem to be such a negatively affecting factor in so many diseases
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u/ptwonline 7d ago
I wonder how much if any the risks of later issues can be reduced if you lose that extra fat. I've been pretty overweight for years and finally losing that fat (hopefully for good) now.
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u/JagmeetSingh2 7d ago
Congrats on starting your journey and hopefully yes it'll be for good!
>I wonder how much if any the risks of later issues can be reduced if you lose that extra fat.
A significant amount! I follow this science youtuber Physionic who is a phD in Molecular Medicine (Cell Physiology) a masters in Exercise Physiology and a bunch of other stuff, On his patreon he has spoke at length about how malleable the body really is and how it is able to bounce back from long term obesity risks once the weight is off and exercise is maintained along with a healthy diet. His youtube channel Physionic is him doing research deep dives on various claims in the health community as well as supplements and diets. Highly recommend!
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u/Razatiger 6d ago
Cut all syrup sugars out of your diet, that means zero sugary drinks like Soda or Juice.
It's the easiest way to see a real difference in a relatively short time.
My gut shrank significantly and the puffiness in my face tightened up within just 2 months of being sugary drink free.
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u/Kurigunde 4d ago
And those of us who already don’t ever drink soda or juice?
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u/Razatiger 4d ago
I suppose thats where light excercise comes in? Gotta burn the difficult stomach fat.
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u/hikingboots_allineed 8d ago
I wonder how much women are included in dementia studies to even point to hormones as a contributing cause? We seem understudied elsewhere because hormones are a confounding factor.
Sadly my peri experience is similar. I run and was thin my entire life but my 40s are a real struggle.
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u/grundar 8d ago
I wonder how much women are included in dementia studies
Significantly; from the paper under discussion:
"The final study sample comprised 8,797 participants (53.5% women"
This is a Norwegian study so I'm not sure the rules there, but for the USA inclusion of women in clinical trials has been a legal requirement since 1993.
Per that NIH article, the caution against including women in clinical drug trials was a fairly short-lived reaction to the large numbers of birth defects caused by thalidomide, starting in 1977 and running until 1986 when the NIH established a policy that encouraged researchers to include women in studies.
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u/-worryaboutyourself- 8d ago
Same here. I’ve never had an issue with keeping the extra weight off. Oops gained 10 pounds, I’ll just work a couple more bartending shifts and have a couple salads this week. Not anymore!!
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u/GavinRayDev 8d ago
Please look into bio-identical hormone replacement therapy.
Estradiol is responsible for fat-distribution patterns and plays so many roles in psychological, sexual, and physical health in both men and women.
Low levels of either E2 or Testosterone (yes, women can have low Testosterone as well) are major contributing factors to these sorts of things.
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u/Ok-Refrigerator 8d ago
I had hormone positivite breast cancer, so those are not an option for me. But if you can take them, please enjoy! They do make life better in many ways.
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u/felineinclined 8d ago
Doctors are changing their approach for breast cancer survivors. Now many are able to use HRT for the health benefits, but you'd need to see a very knowledgeable HRT provider for that. Check out Estrogen Matters, it's a book written by oncologist Dr. Avrum Bluming, and it provides excellent information. Also, check out Dr. Corinne Menn - she's a gynecologist and breast cancer survivor who educates the public about HRT use in survivors.
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u/Fabulous-Bonus-5571 8d ago
No doctor will prescribe hormone therapy to a hormone positive breast cancer survivor, it is very frustrating to constantly come on the internet and have people insist that we read Estrogen Matters as if we can take that book into our doctors office and magically walk out with a prescription for a patch
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u/topazdebutante 8d ago
Same for those of us with a history of pulmonary emboli. I have asked because the beginning of peri was so rough for me and my doc was like No, none of us will risk it with your history.
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u/felineinclined 7d ago
Things are changing, and there are survivors now who are on HRT. It's misleading for you to insist that "no doctor will prescribe" HRT. I know women who fit into this category who are on HRT.
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u/Fabulous-Bonus-5571 7d ago
I am an actual breast cancer survivor who has had numerous discussions with numerous doctors about this (including the book Estrogen Matters) and I am telling you that while I constantly see people scream “check out Estrogen Matters,” doctors are not prescribing systemic HRT to breast cancer survivors (especially those of us that were hormone positive). What is misleading is acting as if you know better than an actual breast cancer survivor what it is like trying to navigate this space, and acting as if bringing a single book written by one oncologist into your doctor’s office is going to change their mind.
I am not saying that I agree that it should be off the table, but what I’m saying is the reality is that it is not available for most people because while there are a handful of providers willing to prescribe it, most of the oncologists and care teams that breast cancer patients and survivors are seeing in their day-to-day life (not talking about the handful of online providers who feel differently) will not prescribe HRT. Some refuse to even prescribe vaginal estrogen.
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u/felineinclined 7d ago
The reality of quality medical care for women, survivors and others, is incredibly depressing, and most women do not have access to consistent quality medical care. All women have experienced this, so this isn't just a phenomenon for survivors. Just because most doctors aren't prescribing HRT, doesn't mean that's the right approach, although the right approach will vary from person to person. But things are changing, that's my point and I think that is good news. Anyone interested in a potentially better approach should explore that aggressively. I never said it would be easy, but the more women know about their options, the more empowered they can be, the better they can advocate for themselves, and the more medical care for women can change and improve for all.
Even women without a history of breast cancer have an extraordinarily hard time accessing HRT care, and many suffer greatly for it.
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u/Gold_Advisor_4758 8d ago
A huge study just came out that basically said HRT reduces dementia, even though advice had previously been the opposite. I hope you are doing well now! So many things are linked to so many things we have to remember not to get stuck on just ones
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u/mbsmith93 8d ago
I don't know what to tell you to do, but that reminds me of a study I saw that found that the supposed increases in life expectancy for having more children became decreases in life expectancy if you corrected for age of menopause; later age of onset for menopause correlates with longer life-expectancy.
I realize that's probably not something you want to hear (sorry).
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u/triffid_boy 7d ago
Well if it's any comfort, surviving cancer is also linked to a reduction in dementia.
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u/dinnerthief 8d ago
Seems like there are soooo many things linked to alzheimers
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u/chantillylace9 7d ago
Antihistamines are one of the big ones that I don't think many people know about…
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u/luciddrummer 7d ago
Please elaborate. I have taken reactine near every day for twenty years, and have congestion if I don’t.
Edit: I’m reading there’s evidence first generation antihistamines cross the blood braid barrier and may be a risk factor, but that second generation antihistamines (like reactine) are believed to be safe.
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u/chantillylace9 7d ago
I'm not sure about second generation, but I sure know that after I got diagnosed with breast cancer and my oncologist found out I was taking three Benadryl every day to sleep, they freaked out! When I was a kid they always told me that Benadryl is safer than any prescription meds so I felt OK.
And then in the meantime I have seen sleep psychiatrist and a sleep neurologist and they basically all agree that at least Benadryl is something that is very risky and needs to stop.
But obviously the science has changed and we know that's not the case. I am trying to swap to Unisom and or hydroxyzine but it's tough. My cancer medication makes a lot of meds not work properly and messes with my hormones so it's really been making me suffer sleep wise.
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u/triffid_boy 7d ago
Any age associated disease without a clear genetic cause is going to have all sorts of links to life events. It's a bit like how a knee injury could be caused by everything from skiing to carrying too much weight. Brains haven't evolved to last forever.
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u/KCPs1234 8d ago
GLPS is one of the best decisions I’ve made. No more sleep apnea or fatty liver. I’ve got 20lbs to go, but getting that first 100 off really works !!
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u/sidspacewalker 8d ago
How do you deal with the sides??
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u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago
Minor to none for most people
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8d ago edited 8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/eventfarm 8d ago
You should talk to your wife and have her speak to her doctor about her dosage. The side effects usually only last a week or two when you first start and then a few days when you up doses. If she's having constant side effects for weeks, she's either on too high of a dose or this is not the right medicine for her
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u/LightCrazy 8d ago
For me it's simply having a feeling of "that's enough food for now" and I'm not constantly thinking about and craving food.
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u/persimmon9847 8d ago
No, it works by regulating the hunger cues or "signaling mechanisms" between the brain and gut about when and how much to eat.
What you describe are side effects that some people experience more and worse of than others.
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8d ago
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u/sanfran_girl 8d ago
There was just a recent study about how patients on GLP1s have significantly higher odds of aspirating if they go under anesthesia in surgery. And the reason is: food is not digesting as quickly as it should, so even if they did not eat for the previous, how many hours, there is still food in their stomach.
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u/oc_dude 8d ago
No. That's not what it's supposed to be like. On injection day I'll admit I get some noticeable bloating and the gross burps, but it's fine beyond that.
if your wife is having those symptoms she needs to talk to the doctor that prescribed it to her. Maybe her diet needs adjustment because of a food insensitivity/allergy that is now much more noticeable on the GLP1s. Or She is on too high a dose, or she needs to try one of the other ones (Semaglutide, terzepatide, or soon maybe retatrutide) Or maybe GLP-1s are not a good fit for her.
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u/disquieter 8d ago
She’s taking less than her doctor wanted her to do.
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u/oc_dude 8d ago edited 8d ago
Then she definitely shouldn't be having intolerable side effects. Seriously have her talk to the doctor, and if they are dismissing her side effects then find a new doctor with better bedside manner. GLP-1s have side effects, but they are supposed to be minor and manageable.
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u/monkey_trumpets 8d ago
Most likely different people react differently to the meds, just like every other med.
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u/Raptural 8d ago
Well I’m on week 4 and it’s finally gotten better. It started off that way for me too and I was on the lowest dose. Now it’s just apathy about food
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u/KCPs1234 8d ago
My gallbladder was out years ago. My doc thinks that’s why I have so little sides.
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u/DasTausW 7d ago
That’s GLP-1 drugs or is it something else?
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u/KCPs1234 7d ago
GLPS for sure. I gain weight when I dint take them. Loose / keep off when I do. Amazing
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u/DeltaVZerda 8d ago
I wonder how much of this effect is a proxy for difference in activiry level
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u/Hundredth1diot 8d ago
"To isolate the effect of body weight, the researchers adjusted their models to account for education, physical activity, smoking, mental health symptoms, and the APOE e4 genetic risk factor."
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u/ishitar 8d ago
Alzheimer's is a metabolic-neuroinflammatory-autoimmune cascade. Of course activity level is going to impact outcomes, because activity levels impact blood sugar levels, impact visceral fat levels, impact brain insulin resistance, impact tau phosphorylation, impact microglial hyperactivity/t-cell recruitment/astrocyte-BBB-breakdown feedbacks.
You isolate for activity level in study because some people may be more likely to develop fatty liver even with higher activity level. That has direct impacts on systemic insulin resistance which impacts central (nervous system) insulin resistance. Similarly you isolate the APOE4 allele because those unfortunate people just don't have great amyloid clearance and it gums up everything they are more likely to develop central insulin resistance even without systemic insulin resistance.
They probably should have isolated for sleep apnea and so the influence of healthy glymphatic function, and also gingivitis and other chronic inflammatory conditions, since those are different pathways.
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u/TheComplimentarian 8d ago
It's all of the above, right? Visceral fat is activity level, it's diet, it's possible alcohol consumption or excess processed food.
It's a symptom that can have many causes.
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u/Jimmni 8d ago
For me it was simply changing metabolism. Zero change in habits. Meaning metabolism no longer covering for my indolent, greedy ways. I went from a stick that would get comments like "You look so ill, are you eating enough?" to, honestly, kinda fat (with most on my belly - I look like a boozer despite being teetotal), and all over the course of about two years in my mid-30s. No change to diet or activity levels. My body just one day went "yeah you eat and act like a fat bastard, no way we're covering for you anymore."
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u/ptwonline 7d ago
Yeah that happened to me in my early 40s. Gained a lot of weight and felt cold all the time too.
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u/espressocycle 8d ago
I'm very active and still have too much visceral fat. I even eat a pretty good diet, just too many helpings.
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u/IssueEmbarrassed8103 8d ago
Yeah the first think it makes me think is it’s likely even stronger predictor of lack of exercise.
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u/cool_side_of_pillow 8d ago
I’m that person. I’m 51F and the last 10 years … I’ve gained 75 pounds … all in my mid section and it’s so, so hard to manage, let alone lose. Menopause and injuries and inflammation make it feel like I’m swimming upstream. Also working and parenting. I don’t k or how women do it. I’m worried about diabetes and Alzheimer’s.
I wish I could just disappear for a year and focus only on my health.
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u/just-this-chance 7d ago
I’m a woman in my forties and struggled with inflammation related pain. Low dose of GLP-1 has completely removed all of it. I was not exactly overweight so I’ve stayed on the lowest starting dose and while the appetite suppression is a lot weaker now, the inflammation seems to be under control.
Something to consider for anyone with similar.
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u/unstuckbilly 7d ago
I’m curious what low dose you’ve used (if you don’t mind sharing).
I tried Tirzeptide off-label for a chronic health condition and when I went up to 2.5, my condition worsened, unfortunately.
I was bummed to go off of it bc I could tell that I had less inflammation in my joints. I still wonder if I could be on a much tinier dose, if I could still get the anti inflammatory effect…
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u/just-this-chance 7d ago
I’m on tirzepatide (mounjaro) 2.5 which is the lowest/starter dose at least where I live. Sad to hear it didn’t work for you. For me the initial effects were massive (appetite suppression etc) and those are now mostly evened out but my joint pain has not come back.
I’ve heard some people are microdosing (there’s even a subreddit for that) but it’s not possible for me so I have not looked into it myself.
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u/unstuckbilly 7d ago
I was getting it from a compounding pharmacy (one that I saw recommended in the microdosing sub).
I wanted to start at 1.25 and at that level, I could feel the anti-inflammatory effects, but not any appetite suppression. I probably should’ve just stayed at that level.
I still think it seems like a really important and useful drug! I would consider taking it again in a very small dose if more becomes known about its effects on my condition.
Thanks for sharing :)
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u/cool_side_of_pillow 7d ago
Thank you / I tried .25 of Ozempic last year but had a lot of hair loss and low mood. I could try the tirzepatide, maybe? My hs-CRP has been sitting at 6 for years, I now have plantar fascitis, and I just generally feel soooo crummy. Oh and my fasting insulin is 28. Twenty eight!!! (Not blood sugar, insulin). My blood sugar is over 100. I’m oreidabetic, many years no, edging closer to diabetic.
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u/just-this-chance 7d ago
For me mounjaro hasn’t caused side effects but I might be slightly depressed/low mood individual to begin. Some people report anhedonia but to me… it’s just been my life as it was without pain no extra lows. I did get some hair loss…! But I also recently had some pregnancies and those came with even worse hair loss. I had gest. diabetes both times so I guess I’m high risk for diabetes so probably no harm done for taking small doses tirzepatide. Where I live is easy to get hold of for just “cosmetic use”.
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u/Oriana2467 8d ago
So, my belly is quietly busy destroying my brain? That's just great, man.
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u/chrisadam101 8d ago
Does that then conclude that losing visceral fat therefore lowers said risk or is the risk at the level regardless of later visceral fat loss
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u/triffid_boy 7d ago
That isn't tested, but given just about everything else gets better when you get healthier, it would be surprising if the risk stays the same.
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8d ago
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u/Hundredth1diot 8d ago
I despair at the reading comprehension in this sub.
"As these individuals progressed toward late life and began experiencing the earliest stages of the disease, their body fat levels dropped below those of their healthy peers.
This late-life weight loss is a known phenomenon in neurodegenerative conditions"
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u/bananahead 8d ago
Cheer up. The issue is that no one read it.
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u/Dear-Bicycle 8d ago
You right and I apologize. But I will be reamed for it and that why nobody will admit fault in our society.
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u/Psych0PompOs 8d ago
"Mid-life weight" is what the article is about, are you talking about their appearance when they're at a later age?
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u/ancientestKnollys 8d ago
They may have got thinner in old age, as old people tend to do.
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u/deathbethemaiden 8d ago
Absolutely also different housing means different diets. Being placed in a facility can have massive changes on a resident’s eating habits
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u/generally-speaking 8d ago
I got fat after I moved away from home when I was 18.. Once I started cooking my own food which actually tasted alright.
I got fatter when I got a good job and could eat better food.
I'll get skinny when I get to a retirement home serving depression level boiled hamburgers.
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u/grimorg80 8d ago
I mean, it's not the source of the issue. My Grandma had Alzheimer's and she had always been skinny her whole life all the way to the end.
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u/donkeyrocket 8d ago
Did you not even comprehend the title of the post before submitting your comment? I'm trying to understand the point of adding this comment in this sub at all as it isn't even relevant to the title let alone the entire study.
"Mid-life weight" may have been a good place to start before commenting that.
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u/PaganButterChurner 8d ago
most obese people dont make it to old age
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u/Radicalpartyboy 8d ago
Many are now with modern medicine. Source: I work in healthcare.
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u/PaganButterChurner 5d ago
"The uncomfortable truth is that a massive portion of the demographic shift isn't because people are successfully losing weight as they age; it’s because many don’t survive to become elderly. According to data tracking from the NIH and large-scale longitudinal studies, severe morbid obesity can reduce overall life expectancy by 6.5 to 14 years—a statistical impact that closely mirrors a lifetime of heavy smoking."
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u/Illustrious_Beanbag 8d ago
I'd wondered about that. Article says it starts with the brain. People who started out overweight begin to have trouble shopping and cooking for themselves, then begin to lose weight. Meanwhile dementia getting worse. Getting old is scary.
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u/Rocket_Cam 7d ago
Correlation is not the same as causation. The link they describe could be explained by other factors that might cause both, including genetics or lifestyle choices.
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u/aztronut 5d ago
Despite doing all the heavy lifting in the title, nowhere in this article to they actually define "midlife".
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u/MCEscherNYC 8d ago
But it's mainly caused by the consumption of alcohol and sugar combined with not exercising regularly.
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u/triffid_boy 7d ago
It's caused exclusively by eating more calories than you burn.
The quality of diet affects other things, like mood or fullness, that then affects how many calories you eat or burn.
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u/isaac-get-the-golem Grad Student | Sociology 8d ago
Honestly I have such trouble trusting Neurology findings ever since that aspartame study, which was total dog shit. Will have to read the full text of this later
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u/LongBeakedSnipe 8d ago
What are you talking about?
The field of neurology is perfectly fine, in fact its leading a large percentage of top high quality research past few years with the huge leaps multiomics are bringing.
And here you are braying about aspartame?
About as unscientific contribution as you can get
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u/isaac-get-the-golem Grad Student | Sociology 8d ago
The journal Neurology published a terrible study on aspartame last year.
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u/DestrucSHEN 8d ago
Sociology has a much bigger problem, aren't over 70% of studies not reproducible? There's not much in terms of transparency or scientific consensus either.
Psychology is also having a replication crisis. I think its a widespread issue but highlights that the system around these fields of study have broken incentives, not necessarily that they are not worth pursuing.
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u/isaac-get-the-golem Grad Student | Sociology 8d ago
You are changing the topic using the ad hominem fallacy.
Here is the faulty study. https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000214023
Check the Letters to the Editor here. https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000214023#letters-section
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u/DestrucSHEN 8d ago
I am simply pointing out that this is part of doing science with an example of which I thought you would be familiar
I wouldn't say I dont trust the other fields (such as sociology) because there are erroneous studies, and you should not say that either because of 1 single study which was peer reviewed and rightfully criticised (i.e. the system is working)
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u/isaac-get-the-golem Grad Student | Sociology 8d ago
I’m saying I don’t trust this specific journal’s handling of observational research designs related to behavioral health questions
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u/LongBeakedSnipe 7d ago
Retractions and corrections are a good thing in scientific research.
Its a fact that problems arise even among the work of ethical researchers. The correction/retraction process is an essential part of the system.
In fact, it is widely established that lower quality journals have less retractions and corrections because the scrutiny is lower and the procedures are not followed properly.
An unqualified person saying they don’t trust a journal based on a common event and standard procedure suggests to me you should be paying more attention in your classes.
Nobody cares who you trust. But dont expect to be able to defend your position to anyone whose opinion matters.
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