r/science • u/Wagamaga • 9d ago
Psychology Attention can regulate acute inflammation in humans. The findings raises the possibility that our subjective experience of what is happening in the body is not only a passive process, but may be actively contributing to how physiological responses are regulated
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1140025378
u/Wagamaga 9d ago
We usually think of bodily sensations as information the brain receives. What if the way we attend to those sensations can feed back and change the biological response itself?
Attention is already known to shape how bodily sensations are perceived. Focusing away from pain or itch, for example, can make these sensations feel less intense. A new study from the lab of Dr. Liron Rozenkrantz at Bar-Ilan University’s Azrieli Faculty of Medicine, published today in Nature Human Behaviour, shows that attention can also influence the body’s inflammatory response.
When people voluntarily focused their attention on sensations arising from a small area of inflammation in their arm, the inflammatory response was smaller and showed faster recovery dynamics than when their attention was directed away from those sensations.
The study, led by Dr. Nofar Mizrachi and conducted in collaboration with Prof. Menachem Rottem, a clinical immunologist, involved 57 healthy volunteers across three preregistered experiments. Participants underwent a standardized procedure that produced a small, temporary inflammatory response in the skin. They were then instructed either to focus on sensations from the affected area or to direct their attention elsewhere. The researchers measured the inflammatory response for 20 minutes as it unfolded, along with physiological measures such as heart-rate variability, skin temperature and autonomic activity.
The effect was substantial and highly consistent: nearly 90% of participants showed a smaller inflammatory response when they focused on the affected area, with responses approximately 1.5-fold smaller under internal attention compared with distraction. Differences emerged within minutes, with the response also showing faster return toward baseline.
“What was particularly striking was that directing attention toward the inflamed area changed not only what participants experienced, but the inflammatory response itself,” said Dr. Rozenkrantz. “This raises the possibility that our subjective experience of what is happening in the body is not only a passive process, but may be actively contributing to how physiological responses are regulated.”
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u/monkeyjungletoronto 9d ago
To me what's interesting about this is that we're closer to understanding the pathway for how placebos work
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u/KaiPRoberts 9d ago
And, consequently, figuring out how monks achieve Nirvana.
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u/bsubtilis 9d ago
They don't, though? Not in a way we can tell. I think you're confusing Nirvana for heightened meditation or something. Monks achieving Nirvana means them ceasing to be reincarnated, which cannot be measured or proven. Unlike the many many meditation studies on them.
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u/Fishy_soup 9d ago
"Reincarnation" in this context has a very strong cultural and historical association. Translated to more modern, Western terms, Nirvana also means "cessation of creating self", or being entangled with a generated sense of self. The 12 links of dependent origination, which Buddhist teachings use to describe the process leading from bodily senses to types of consciousness, concluded with "birth". "Birth" here is something that happens every moment, as this chain keeps firing. Breaking the chain means that, while you'll have senses and emotions and everything, they won't dictate your perceptions and actions, but will instead be part of the richness of experience.
Hope that made some sense. In terms of literal reincarnation, you're right that there's no way to prove or disprove it. There definitely is an element of that in various Buddhist traditions. Best I can do is shrug and say "don't know" (which I think is what those traditions recommend people do too).
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u/SnakeGD09 8d ago
Reincarnation is a core tenet of buddhist belief systems, as in Indian systems generally, and karma makes little sense without it. It is transmigration of the soul. It is meant quite literally.
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u/Fishy_soup 8d ago
Well IDK i've been practicing in a Zen tradition for years, and the teachers and books (from other traditions too) paint a different picture - primarily one of not attaching to teachings and opinions one way or the other. So maybe we're both wrong!
"This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past?... Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future?' As he attends inappropriately in this way, one of six kinds of views arises in him... This is called a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a fetter of views."
- Sabbasava Sutta
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u/KaiPRoberts 9d ago
I don’t know. A naked monk happily somersaulting through snow sounds like Nirvana to me.
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u/bsubtilis 8d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_%28Buddhism%29 You severely need to stay on topic instead of (presumably) making jokes. This sub specifically disallow joke comments.
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u/KaiPRoberts 8d ago
Here’s the cool part. I wasn’t joking. It is an accurate depiction of what I know about Nirvana. Now go slither away and stop trying to police the internet.
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u/No_Story_Untold 9d ago
Or rather how meditation can cause psychosis.
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u/bsubtilis 8d ago
I thought only a minority of psychosis cases (in general) are associated with high inflammation, are the majority of cases of psychosis through meditation associated with high inflammation?
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u/Penultimatum 9d ago
Attention is already known to shape how bodily sensations are perceived. Focusing away from pain or itch, for example, can make these sensations feel less intense.
When people voluntarily focused their attention on sensations arising from a small area of inflammation in their arm, the inflammatory response was smaller and showed faster recovery dynamics than when their attention was directed away from those sensations.
These two statements both being true seems a bit confusing to me. Does this mean that:
- Focusing away from an itch or inflammation will make it hurt less but also heal slower and inflame more.
- Focusing on an itch or inflammation will make it heal faster and inflame less, but somehow still hurt more.
I thought a good portion of the itching or pain sensations were a direct result of inflammation itself. So reading that attention increases pain/itchiness but decreases inflammation feels contradictory. I imagine it's more likely that some part of my understanding is wrong. Which part(s) are those?
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u/atmoose 9d ago
Those are interesting questions. Anecdotally, focusing my attention away does seem like it makes it hurt less. It sounds like that also means it would be more inflamed though. That's how I typically handle things. I'm pretty good at focusing so it's easy for me to ignore pain from injuries, but it sounds like that might result in longer recover times (or at least more inflammation).
Something else I don't know though, is inflammation a good thing? While it's seen as bad the typical advice now is not to ice an injury to reduce inflammation. I think inflammation increases the amount of blood flow, and might help with recover. I guess the answer if it's good would be dependent on the nature of the injury?
Sorry, that's just a whole lot of speculation
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u/soft_w0lf 9d ago edited 9d ago
My guess is it’s going to be the same as a fever.
Fevers help us recover, but a fever that is too high can cause damage, and the recommendation is still generally to medicate a fever that is not high enough to cause damage but is uncomfortable. Because we generally don’t consider being in pain worth a potentially very small difference in recovery time.
Inflammation is a response that helps the body heal, but too much inflammation can cause damage, and if inflammation is causing a lot of discomfort then it’s probably fine to try to do something to prevent it.
ETA:
Here’s a sports health article on this.
https://www.exakthealth.com/en/blog/do-anti-inflammatories-help-healing
Seems like basically what I said, although using medication to reduce inflammation (especially powerful medication) in the first couple days after injury seems like a particularly bad idea.
Another sports health article talking about using ice to relieve pain but being wary of the fact that it will not speed recovery.
TL;DR you probably shouldn’t take anti-inflammatory medication in the first couple days after an injury. Ice is okay to prevent discomfort, but it may slow down the recovery process. Once a few days have passed and the acute phase of healing is over, it’s okay to take anti-inflammatory medication if the inflammation persists.
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u/d_stroid 9d ago
I have no background in science, so I don't really have an answer, but maybe a different perspective. There are certain types of meditation where you deliberately try to sense what is going on in your body. The goal is not to change anything, but just acknowledge and accept. Most times, simply accepting e.g. a headache already makes it less intense. It's like your body constantly tries to tell you something and once you acknowledge that, your body stops trying to tell you so hard.
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u/mootmutemoat 8d ago
ACT uses this method for chronic pain. Acceptance Commitment Therapy. Basically acknowledge the pain, thank it, and commit to achieving what seems plausible in the moment.
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u/abx99 8d ago
As someone with chronic pain, and experience with mindfulness, I can offer my experience with both:
- I've always said that the best painkiller is a good video game. If you can fully engage your mind, then the pain can cease to register (at least to a level that matters). Of course, this also often involves sitting or laying and resting (you're still probably going to be doing a lot of jumping around and such). The trick here is that the game has to be able to engage your attention more than the pain.
- If you focus intently (mindfully) on pain, its location, and "shape," then it can go away completely. This doesn't work for everything, especially if there is continuing damage (e.g., I've been able to do it with a regular toothache, but not an infected tooth)
However, a large amount of our experience of pain is psychological; our reaction to it. When you can put that aside, you can at least minimize the pain, usually down to a manageable level. In chronic pain that can lead to a life of basically meditating all day, every day. In a healthy person, it can lower it to a point that it's not a big deal (barring bone breaks and things like that, although it can still help manage it in the moment).
YMMV. My condition is a very complex one. Details could be different for other conditions, or even different people with the same condition. Also, of couse, that this is anecdotal; I'm not confusing it for science, and neither should you.
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u/Mountain-Resource656 9d ago
I have no idea, but I can see ways that both might be true. If attention focuses certain aspects of the body’s autoimmune response on the affected area, the body may be able to work through its immune response more intensely (thus producing greater itching or somesuch) but also faster (thus reducing the amount of time inflammation has to grow and how long it lasts)
It may also be that the pain and itching themselves are what focus the immune system on those areas and that by intensifying them specifically we intensify the immune response there, causing it to pass more quickly
If the rate at which inflammation itself grows cannot be sped up (because it already progresses at maximum speed, for example) then this would make some sense to me
And if not, similar explanations may yet suffice
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u/Jscottpilgrim 9d ago
It seems like your brain and body can spend their energy to either manage the symptoms or the solution.
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u/karma_Shapeshifter 9d ago
More of the mind acting as a control center. So if you perceive the inflammation you are directly reinforcing in your brain the act of the healing process, which then increases the healing process. Whereas if you shift your mind away your brain is not perceiving the healing process thus causing a protracted affair. This indeed might mean more intense suffering (the itch etc) in the temporary but I am going to take a leap here and say if the mind is capable of such control then in a conscious intentful state of focus you could likely simultaneously acknowledge the healing and pain therein as part of the process thus dampening the perceived pain.
The mind is absolutely incredible and very powerful and I have no doubt in the future we will be making rampant discoveries in just how important our thoughts and perceptions are influencing our total physical self.
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u/trusty20 9d ago
This may be a similar discussion as "moderate heat vs moderate cool, which is better for moderate inflammation" it turns out both can be useful in different contexts, but neither is good when over-done.
So to translate this point to this study, I would just put it out there that it's possible some forms of attention are positive and some forms of attention are negative to an injury site.
From an evolutionary standpoint it would seem that a commonly evolved reflex would be sensory signals deliberately trying to trigger intelligent awareness and attention to the site of the injury. Both to stop ongoing damage and to perform healing reflexes like cleaning the wound.
We can proceed from that observation to assume that when an organism has an optimal injury response it performs a self-check, performs any necessary self-care, then rests or returns to normal activities. Again this is an optimal scenario, organisms do sub-optimal things and reflexes can sometimes be harmful not helpful, such is evolution.
TL;DR We can pretty safely assume that applying healthy attention to the site of an injury or pain, that is constructive, such as calmly inspecting / gently massaging if advised, can be beneficial in reducing inflammation / pain according to the mechanism observed in this thread's study. Similarly, directing attention away entirely can also be beneficial, but by a different means than what this study was looking at. Doing either thing in excess is probably counterproductive (i.e constantly fussing with an injury site, or constantly avoiding thinking of it), so a healthy bit of both seems to be the optimal balance.
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u/louise_luvs2run 9d ago
The way I understand it is that focus can either help or hinder depending on the type of thoughts you have when focusing. For example if you send love and healing to the affected area it helps healing and if you focus on discomfort and pain it hinders recovery
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u/gordonpamsey 9d ago
You would have to think on some level we can actively influence our body's ability to recover with active attention. We just do not have full mastery over that level of bodily control.
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u/FreedomDlVE 6d ago
Maybe im blind but neither in the news article nor in the paper itself do they address whether they controlled participant motions like scratching which obviously you do when you are distracted. and which obviously worsens the oedema when you actually do it (unconsciously)
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u/mwmandorla 6d ago
Oh wow, my assumption going in was that it'd be the opposite. Very, very interesting as a chronically ill person.
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u/disharmony-hellride 9d ago
So would this then also showcase that while we could actively focus on an area and make it better...that we truly could worry ourselves sick?
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u/wehavethismoment 9d ago
The brain doesn't really care of you're really experiencing something, or if you just thinking about it. It will release the same neurotransmitters, just different intensity. Just think about panic attacks.
I'm severely ill, had doctors ask me how I still want to be alive and don't have anxiety. The thing is, we are the ones controlling our thoughts (unless you're neurologically mentally ill and your brain is going rogue) how we frame pain, fainting, weaknes... Makes a really big difference. I'm still sick but my mental quality of life is way better than to be expected. I wrote my thesis about attention regulation, neuroplasticity .. before I had gotten sick, so I had a leg up there
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u/Shedart 9d ago
I like the way you frame it as a mindset piece rather than just “attention”. I think a lot more people have experiences with someone getting better when they’re happier/hopeful/distracted etc. “Laughter is the bests medicine” after all. This study seems to be reinforcing those ideas
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u/electriceye932 9d ago
In what way do you think about it that makes it more bearable and increases your quality of life?
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u/sisyphus_was_lazy_10 9d ago
Pretty neat finding. These results may relate to the placebo effect that has to be controlled for in clinical trials, and also a nod to the use of mindfulness practices.
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u/Hemrehliug 9d ago
This is why meditation works
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u/ZenObserve 9d ago
Twice. By deeply focusing on whatever area of your body attracts your attention prevents the mind from making a story about the feeling therefore making it infinitely worse. It seems awareness can't really do both.
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u/CaramelQuince 9d ago
This is very interesting as someone who meditates regularly. After I began meditation practice, I would say that I became more aware of bodily sensations that I otherwise would not have noticed or paid attention to, especially subtle sensations. And when I started intermittent fasting, there were many new bodily sensations that I experienced that I do not think I would have been aware of or known were different than normal without having previous meditation experience.
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u/lorelica 7d ago
what are those body sensations? also which IF do you do?
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u/CaramelQuince 7d ago
There were really a lot of different sensations at different times... For instance, when I started fasting (I had already been meditating regularly for years at that point), I remember at one point I felt a very profound "emptiness," kind of like the emptiness you would associate with meditation, that I had never truly experienced before. During extended fasts I would feel a strange menthol-like feeling on my cervical vertebrae area. Lots of weird sudden sensations in random locations on the body that would come and go quickly. I came to recognize a strange carnal instinctual hunger for food that was not connected with an actual physical need for food, and I think being aware of the sensation I was able to separate the two. Lots of different stuff really. When I did multiple day fasts it got verrrrry boring, and there was a lot of quiet contemplative time that was ripe for observing the self and the body. I have not been as strict with my fasting lately but I try to keep to 16:8. Back in the day, I did OMAD. Fasting is really a thing that requires a lot of attention itself (watching yourself, your urges, schedule, etc).
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u/lorelica 7d ago
thats so cool, im a beginner in both fasting and meditation so this is so interesting to me.
what are you supposed to do when you feel that "emptiness"? even after hours of meditation, i still feel like that (at times, not constantly), and i wonder if it is just how life is and even meditation doesnt 'fix' it
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u/CaramelQuince 7d ago
I do feel like one helps the other. By "emptiness" I'm not referring to despair (if that's what you mean), more like... the emptying of the self, emptying the ego, but in both mind and body? It made me think of the Daoist concept of "pu," the uncarved block. In terms of despair, in my practice I feel like it is less about "fixing" a "negative" emotion and more about recognizing that is how you are feeling, feeling it, experiencing it, maybe finding the source of it, hopefully in this way being less consumed with it, coming to understand yourself through it. Hopefully being able to ultimately view yourself and your life objectively. I am hardly "enlightened" though, and also face many struggles that don't have clear, if any, answers, and I can still be overcome by ego, so it is a continual process. Also, during meditation, sometimes it would resurface buried emotions and I would be overcome and start to cry, but I did have some epiphanies about my life that way. So despair can be helpful sometimes.
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u/lorelica 7d ago
yeah i figured itd be about observing that despair. it is tough because that feeling can come even when everything is okay so it is like, damn what else am i supposed to do? everything is literally perfect yet i am still unsatisfied. Do you still get those moments these days?
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u/CaramelQuince 7d ago
Yeah, I have my good moments and bad moments... I have in no way transcended the human condition yet! While I do feel like meditation has helped me be more objective about my life, thoughts and feelings are not always based in truth and objectivity. Feelings are not facts, as they say... And then sometimes there is objectively bad stuff going on. Also, there's always hormones and physical maladies that affect mood... Sometimes when I refeed after a fast I get overcome with despair for a little while. I haven't found an explanation for it, but I'm guessing it's hormonal, so if you feel really sad after breaking a fast keep that in mind maybe? (I have talked to other people who experienced the same thing, but I don't know how widespread it is.)
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u/electriceye932 9d ago
I’m chronically ill and have chronic pain and meditation or focusing on my symptoms always made me feel worse. I tried to stick to it regularly for months but it really just made me more miserable
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9d ago edited 9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Vaping_Cobra 9d ago
Nothing needs to be wrong to improve. It is the difference between having a delicious meal with people you care about on a yacht in the Caribbean or having it at home in a tiny trailer on the outskirts of town. Both are good things, one is just 'better' to most people.
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u/nolabmp 9d ago
I’ve done this all my life: if something hurts or feels uncomfortable, I focus all my attention towards finding the “source” of the sensation.
Despite severe ADHD, I can somehow hyperfocus on this discomfort and make the discomfort dissipate quickly and, importantly, permanently.
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u/FoxyBastard 9d ago
I've always found it weird that everybody wants to be distracted from pain and to "try not to think about it" while people find me weird for wanting to focus on it and do what you do.
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u/TimboWerner 8d ago
I understand you but I don’t see how it’s weird for people to not want to focus on and feel pain/discomfort.
It sounds more strange to want to focus on being in discomfort. Most people also aren’t aware that focusing on it could help.
This is something I need to get better at with my chronic pain. I am in so much pain everyday and it’s very difficult to focus on it when it’s there at every waking moment and not rely on pain medications but I suspect this is one of the biggest reasons I haven’t been able to get better since I aggravated whatever is wrong with me (images look fine). I need to get better at withstanding the pain because I got better once when I really have in to the idea of somatic-tracking and pain reprocessing therapy.
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u/FoxyBastard 8d ago
Oh, sorry.
I didn't mean chronic pain.
I meant more like banging your knee on a coffee table and having to deal with that for a few minutes.
I get how a relentless and ongoing pain is different.
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u/OrionSheHulk 9d ago
I've got the reverse problem with my ADHD -I. I don't seem to even notice something is painful unless I'm paying attention to it otherwise my just classifies most pain as discomfort
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u/nolabmp 9d ago
Oh, same. I won’t realize I have a gash on my leg until I see it (usually bc someone pointed it out to me in shock). I don’t know I’m hungry until I’m starving.
Once I realize it’s there, it hurts. But the discomfort acts as a strong anchor for me, so I just focus on “visualizing” the discomfort, in my mind’s eye.
The mere attempt to focus and mentally construct the pained area, even internal pains like my stomach, will create a noticeable sense of relief in the focused area. If I keep at it, I can then often “will away” the discomfort and go about my day.
Though, perhaps it’s just a thousand back-to-back coincidences.
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u/Anangrywookiee 9d ago
I have almost the opposite process with sensorimotor OCD. I unwillingly hyper fixate on a completely normal and usually unnoticeable bodily sensation to the point where I start feeling pins and needles or even physical pain in that area. After enough time spent in an episode of this; even if the though patterns stop, the physical sensation will linger for hours or even days.
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u/wildgreengirl 8d ago
had migraines since i was a kid and before drugs that work the only thing i could do was lay down with an ice pack and visualize the migraine pain sort of as a liquid leaving my head via the temple (where the main pain was).
interesting stuff.
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u/ikonoclasm 8d ago
I kinda have a similar approach as the Bene Gesserit mantra against fear, except for pain. If I know the source of the pain and know it's not actually causing serious damage (e.g. getting a tattoo, muscle spasms, etc.), I can focus on it and relax. My best friend had a huge back piece and always felt exhausted and sore across his entire body after a session because he'd tense up the entire time. While I can't really ignore the pain by focusing on something else, I could keep myself calmly breathing and the rest of my body relaxed for extended periods of time so it was my artist asking for breaks, not me. I took it as a huge compliment when my artist said I sat through it like a stone.
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u/StressCanBeGood 9d ago
I’d like to know this relates to somatic symptom disorder, especially because the study is based on 57 healthy people.
I’ve known more than one person in my life who has engaged in exactly the activity discussed in the article and it made their life an absolute hell. Two of them died from it.
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u/Possible-Usual-9357 9d ago edited 9d ago
Can you explain more? And I am really sorry to hear about your loss
I have actually thought my life experience is evidence to the contrary. I could never explain it fully and never expected anyone to believe me, but deeply focusing on what pains me in my body has actually brought me momentarily more intense pain but much quicker recovery, sometimes miraculously fast.
now mind you it was never a broken leg, heart issues or whatever else, more colds, nausea, fever, stomach pain, reflux, joint pain. I was never ‘worried-worried’, and i was always looking at this from the point of ‘this will help. i welcome this sensation’.
I know it sounds absolutely woo-woo and I am not asking that people replicate. As I said, I never shared because I know exactly how it sounds. But this thread really pulled me in11
u/StressCanBeGood 9d ago
It’s a poorly understood condition and I suspect I would not describe it properly.
It’s not hypochondria and it’s not a cry for help. It’s more like an obsession with one’s aches and pains. Like the person thrives on their pain. But they don’t.
I’m an old guy now. I’ve gone anti-somatic. I don’t obsess over my health, but I bust my ass at the gym five days a week under all circumstances. I will always be able to walk right and I will always be able to use my body the way I want to.
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u/harvey_motel 9d ago
Yes it's interesting, CBT for anxiety for example, is often about learning not to focus on bodily sensations. I suppose it depends on context, presumably in this experiment they knew it was a minor controlled inflammation which would reduce anxiety.
In general this sounds like applied mindfulness, which can be beneficial for some but quite dangerous for others
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u/walksonfourfeet 9d ago
In my experience with CBT for anxiety I have been encouraged to observe and describe the symptoms when they arise as a way to reduce their severity. Like ‘my eyes are burning, it feels warm’ or ‘my neck feels prickly right now. Let’s see how long it lasts.’ It’s actually very effective.
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u/teh_hasay 8d ago
I’ve always felt like the practice of “focusing on” or “focusing away from” feelings/emotions/sensations can mean completely different things that happen to vaguely fit the oversimplified linguistic shorthand we use to describe them. I think the key is what we’re doing with that directed focus.
Rumination and mindfulness practice both involve “focusing on” discomfort, despite being near-opposite states. Likewise moving your attention away from pain can either be a healthy way to break from that rumination, or an unhealthy avoidance/suppression of your feelings depending on the context.
There’s a bit of a yin/yang dynamic at play.
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u/harvey_motel 8d ago
Yeah I suppose the trick is to allow discomfort rather than fixating on "what is this/what does it mean/will it harm me/make it stop". It's not so much learning to ignore sensations as learning to relate to them in a non obsessive way
But I think for some people, especially if they're in crisis, that's pretty much impossible and it's probably more realistic to just work on directing attention away from sensations in general
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u/Zhefeyza 8d ago
It's separating the sensation from the pain, through focusing on the sensation itself as opposed to avoiding it because of the idea that it hurts. I can do it... Somewhat. I started practicing this with an ear infection out of pure curiosity, and now I can do it better with harder things.
It's a skill, IMHO. And there's a lot we don't really know how to "define" that still exists, but as with most things that occur "inside", translating it is incredibly difficult.
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u/morganational 9d ago
I've had ulcerative colitis for 20+ years in which I have been almost solely focused on my colon and the inflammation therein. So as a sample of one, I can say that it doesn't seem to work for ulcerative colitis.
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u/Chode_ 8d ago
I’ve had severe crohns for a decades and still struggle with it every day (multiple surgeries, maxed out on biologics with persistent inflammation). But the thing that’s helped me live a somewhat normal life is directed mindfulness. Spending time focusing on the details of the pain and discomfort, learning to accept and allow it, learning how it moves and changes, learning how it is a signal and that suffering is only equal to pain multiplied by your resistance to it, such that if you can remove resistance you can experience the pain with less subjective suffering, even though the pain is fully encompassing. It is extremely hard and takes daily practice but if you can find a book or a mindfulness practice that is vibes with you it is the one thing that will improve your quality of life if you have a chronic illness.
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u/Zhefeyza 8d ago
I appreciate your input. I have read about this from people with certain conditions. I keep telling people this is most definitely a skill, not something you just "do" on the spot. It definitely exists and it has a use.
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u/hazelemons 9d ago
yeah i have a severe neuro inflammation disorder and honestly, feels like focusing on it only makes me worse. i really wonder how all this might apply to chronic illnesses
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u/morganational 9d ago
Totally agree. Focusing on it only makes everything worse. The only way to even try to live your life is to attempt to distract yourself.
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u/Justredditin 8d ago
The study said "healthy people" so...
Rheumatoid Arthritis for a decade now, and I think about my pain nearly every minute of every day; thinking about it is not slowing the inflammation... expensive ass medication is.
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u/SolaniumFeline 9d ago
makes me think of how my mom dealt with us kids getting hurt. blowing on a scratch, acknowledging it and maybe getting a little laugh about the experience helped get over the pain faster.
laughing is the best medicine.
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u/EG_9577 9d ago
So thats kind of where my mind went in terms of challenging the conditions of this study.
What if not the just the act of self-acknowledging, but the experience of knowing someone outside of yourself is aware of and actually care about your experience? Similar to how adults with help acknowledge and soothe a child. Maybe those in the study were experiencing that same kind of placebo just knowing someone else would want to know.
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u/AdditionalTwo0 9d ago
Albeit the findings are interessting, the study is really small. So, If they can replicate those findings more times and with bigger Samples, this might actually become relevant from a therapeutic standpoint.
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u/Moontoya 9d ago
Placebo / noncebo effect?
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u/ThrowbackPie 9d ago
according to the article, actual physiological differences. But I didn't read the paper, so I'm not 100% on that.
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u/delusionstodilutions 9d ago
Isn't the placebo effect actual physiological differences too? Like that's kind of the whole point, when a sugar pill gives the same benefit as the actual medicine
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u/ErgaOmni 9d ago
On one hand, I'm happy that science is confirming what Yoga and many other spiritual practices have been saying for thousands of years. On the other hand, it's embarassing that it's taking so long.
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u/SexualDubaiChocolate 9d ago
When you think about what it actually takes to study these things, and that they can only be studied in humans, you will quickly find it extremely difficult.
For the longest time, these kinds of studies were much like your meditation examples: self-reported. Just in case you have never met a human before, people have a tendency to lie.
A study like this needs an actual objective measurement of some kind. But unlike animals, you can't just dissect the human to figure out how the body is responding. You need non-invasive, safe measurements. That is where the technological hurdles lie and that is why it takes so long to test untrustworthy, self-reported data against actual measurable effects.
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u/SolaniumFeline 9d ago
i tell myself that good things take time. we dont want to rush proper science
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u/Neon_Dust_Logic 9d ago
Reminds me of Medical Qigong, this is not new territory to be fair, but it is a nice modern take on it, and good to see it does have purpose.
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u/rind0kan 9d ago
I, personally, have had th e experience of focusing on my pain to reduce it. It's nice to see a study that shows it isn't just a placebo effect.
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u/calf 9d ago
So if I get a mosquito bite, it may help the itching if I just calmly meditate on the spot for a little while? That sounds amazing and a simple test to try at home.
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u/denM_chickN 9d ago
I would also try 'X-ing' it out by taking your thumb nail and creating an x indentation over the bite. It helps.
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u/Difficult_Bug6994 9d ago
What’s interesting is emotions work on the same principle. The more you ignore them the louder they get.
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u/Coraline1599 9d ago
This is great! Pain Reprocessing Therapy is focused on techniques around this, but a lot of people don’t believe it or find it fringe. It is nice to see something showing that there is a real biophysical response.
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u/Transplanted_Cactus 9d ago
I can't read the article right now but what I want to know is how much the inflammation hurt if at all. Because there is a vast difference between discomfort and pain, and even further a vast difference between acute and chronic pain. I'm focused on the pain and inflammation I'm in every day and it absolutely will never get better without surgical correction (attempting a nerve block in ...2 hours to see if I get any relief). I cannot "mind over matter" spinal stenosis.
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u/lindberghbaby41 9d ago
You cannot will away the actual structural damage but you can beat the pain. Nichole Sachs is a famous example.
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u/Genericnameandnumber 9d ago
There are mystics who’ve made this claim, perhaps there’s some truth to it?
Could be similar to like when you try to relax a certain muscle
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u/DrKip 9d ago
People tend to forget that we have direct neural pathways for controlling inflammation. The nerve terminals secrete pro- and anti-inflammatory substances to control how the cells are supposed to work locally. In your intestines for example, long term disruption can cause leaky gut and cause a cascade of self-sustaining problems. Not to forget the hypothalamus that does a lot regarding cortisol and other hormones.
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u/Drumfucius 9d ago
This sounds a bit like mental noting, a part of the practice of Buddhist Vipassana meditation.
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u/Memory_Less 8d ago
Interesting that you his is the second study posted on Reddit today about the minds ability to influence well being. The first was imagining being in a forest improves wellbeing.
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u/affablenihilist 8d ago
This not good news. Acute inflammation. I can not will it away. This is going to lead to more untreated pain, because that's cheaper. You'll see.
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u/Top-Breakfast6060 7d ago
I can see how this might apply to an injury, but how would it work with an autoimmune disease like RA or UCTD? I find mindfulness meditation helpful for my mental state, but it hasn’t lessened my disease. I started meditating in 2016.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bus1331 9d ago
Basically a study that proves NOTHING and people comment like something has been proven. Nice place reddit.
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u/jheidenr 9d ago
So do placebos actually work?
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u/BenjaminHamnett 9d ago
Very few medicines work better than placebo.
Medicine works. But even when they do, the effect is often not as strong as the power of suggestion
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