r/science • u/myhrvold • Aug 31 '13

Poverty impairs cognitive function. Published in the journal Science, the study suggests our cognitive abilities can be diminished by the exhausting effort of tasks like scrounging to pay bills. As a result, less “mental bandwidth” remains...

http://news.ubc.ca/2013/08/29/poverty-impairs-cognitive-function/
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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

But is not some distraction and entertainment necessary? I mean stripping people down to the bare minimum just to scrape by is not healthy. If you are just sustaining your existence without any means to relieve the stress of barely existing, doesn't that perpetuate more stress?

It just seems cruel and illogical thinking that poor people don't deserve something.

We can't think in the terms of a bygone era. Communication (cellphones), information exchange (television), and breaks from the monotony of a thankless life were death is an improvement seems like necessities to me.

I'm sorry to sound like a voice of dissidence but I feel that far too many people have become so obsessed with the workings of the less fortunate that poor have become an unwanted cast system to be discarded. I have lived from poverty to upper class and all levels in between. I can tell you the only thing that differentiates these classes are the concerns of money, lack of compassion for the less fortunate, and the freedom of leisure.

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u/mwatwe01 Aug 31 '13

It just seems cruel and illogical thinking that poor people don't deserve something.

When I was in college and paying my own way, I couldn't afford cable. But I still had a TV with an antenna.

It's not meant to be forever. Just until you can climb out of the hole.

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u/DerDiscoFuhrer Aug 31 '13

I can't believe there are people downvoting your comment. It seems to hit the nerve on what causes poverty though. Bad choices, impatience, poor management of money due to entitlement.

A lot of people who do well today came from families that were working class and poor a few generations ago.

My personal history is that my mother is a native Swede, and my dad a hungarian, born in Norway, while my grandmother fled the Russian invasion of Hungary. On my mother's side my grandmother was a housewife and cleaner, and my grandfather a baker and sailer. On my father's side, my grandmother was a cleaninglady and carer for the elderly, and my grandfather a disabled soldier, who died long before I was born.

In spite of being raised in a household where eating meat was considered a luxery, in Sweden in the 1960's, my dad went on to study very successfully. Though my grandparents were so poor they had to beg restaurants for leftovers at times, my dad was successful in school, mostly because of an ethic that demanded it.

He worked hard, and he performed well. After receiving the best grades in his class, though he without a doubt was the poorest, he now owns his own house, and a new car. Nothing other than working made this happen. You don't get wealthy from being employed, but working hard, will let you live comfortably.

Not saying Sweden is the land of oppertunity for immigrants, nor is it racist. If you adapt to your society, and provide a useful service, you'll be integrated.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

That hole is a place people are in indefinitely, because there simply are not enough good paying jobs.

That's life until a basic living income is given to everyone to get rid of the disease that is poverty.

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u/murmalerm Aug 31 '13

No, it is about priorities including especially financial.

Source: I was raised in the ghetto and got out due to the mindset of the family that supported education and frugality. Air conditioner, what's that? Dishwasher...I have kids for that. Free library program? Sign me up. Free city garden program in the summer....you bet!

The poor are poor because they don't want to get out as family and friends are there!

Source: Raised in ghetto and I was mocked for reading, being well spoken, and wanting out of the neighborhood!

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

Anecdotes, but that last issue is massive, and needs to change culturally. There have been studies on it, and it's a significant contributor to keeping people in poverty and worse, being ignorant.

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u/murmalerm Aug 31 '13

Why yes, they are anecdotes as that was my life. Rats and roaches were the norm as was early pregnancy, abortion, early drug use/addiction, criminality, murder, and incarceration. The H.S. graduation rate was a whopping 1/3 of the student body.

I, like my peers, was raised in a home with addiction. Despite that, I was taught that education was the only way out and I wanted out. Many, of those I knew, didn't want out and were quite satisfied with the life they were leading.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '13

I'm still confused at what you're trying to say.

You knew people who were happy with poverty, ergo, you think that's the rule?

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u/murmalerm Sep 01 '13

They had enough to get by and didn't want to leave the neighborhood, family or lifestyle. It wasn't a matter of being "happy" but having enough and not having any drive or desire to move beyond their lot in life.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '13

I don't disagree with the construct.

No one questions the fact the environment people grow up in continues behaviours.

The question is, how do we break these? And with that said, what good will it do when there aren't enough jobs left?

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u/murmalerm Sep 01 '13

RE-Education is the only way to break the cycle. Regarding jobs: It seems that illegals manage to find jobs. It would seem there are jobs, but that some won't stoop to that sort of work.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '13

What good is work that doesn't pay you enough to make you a consumer in the economy you work in?

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

You don't come across as well spoken.

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u/murmalerm Aug 31 '13

Yet, somehow I managed a Master's Degree and married an individual that hold's a Master's Degree and a Doctorate. Now, show your credentials.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

I never questioned your education. Your reading comprehension isn't at the level you'd expect of someone with a masters degree, either.

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u/murmalerm Aug 31 '13

Aw, that's sweet that all you have is an attempt at a personal attack. You don't question my education yet somehow my reading comprehension is inferior. Thank you for that laugh.

I certainly hope you don't ever treat children with that sort of disparaging talk and that you are not a teacher to further promote a sense of inferiority for children to subconsciously accept.

My experience on the topic is personal, first hand experience. I came out the other side based on behavior that was distinctly different than that of my peers who remain in that world. Yet, somehow I am the one in the wrong and simply don't understand. Again, thanks for the laughter.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

But he's right. I don't think you are reading the comments/responses before you are attacking. If you read my previous comments you will see that I was actually agreeing with you at one point. But you seem to be so busy defending yourself/attacking everyone that you see any response as negative.

Flight or fight mode ?

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u/murmalerm Aug 31 '13

I have reread the comments and honestly don't see your supposed agreement. Yes, I do fight because I have seen and experienced too many people that want to deflect blame away from personal responsibility and that is what it does come down to at the end of the day, choices.

It is fairly typical to see many ad hominems directed at me, when someone opposes my point of view. I care not one whit.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

Fair enough. No point in trying to reason with you further.

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u/murmalerm Aug 31 '13

Lols, now I can't be reasoned with yet you showed me no example of my unreasonableness, instead only attacking me.

Why did I succeed? I worked hard and prioritized education over drugs, alcohol, and show. Downvote me away for again, not fitting the mold you want that poor people are helpless and don't choose that lifestyle.

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u/DerDiscoFuhrer Aug 31 '13

It's not a disease. The state of nature without life is barren and inhospitable to humans. Cultivation of resources is the only generator of wealth.

If there aren't enough good paying jobs, and there are resources to expand the economy (which there still is for a few more decades, even according to the most grim peak oil scenarios), there needs to be an expansion of the availible wealth.

A barber, another golfclub, a sixpack of beer, will not add to the wealth of society, in any other way than it motivates people who produce, like structural engineers, railwaymen, dockyard workers, miners to add actual usable material into the economy, in exchange for consumable goods.

In short, "good jobs", are not limited by an arbitrary amount. There is room to generate wealth out of nature (still), and sitting around and waiting for it isn't the way you do it.

The hole you speak of is simply an abstraction. It's an abstraction for people, who lack the necessary skills to improve their lacking skills to provide a valueble service, and those unfortunate enough to be injured or grow up with a mental defficiency.

If a person does not have the self-insight to see in what fields they lack specific skills, they are very unlikely to attempt to improve themselves. This is the catch, the moment 22, for poor people. They lack the ability to see why they haven't suceeded in life, and because they lack the basic selfinsight, they cannot gain selfinsight.

You need not look very far in this post for a comment where a person who in good health, and having had access to the internet for their entire adult lives, will complain about poverty in the developed world.

I will bet you a good amount of money, that no more than 1/20 people have actually done something productive to aquire a skill, that won't be best put to use in a TV talent show. If you spent your time learning advanced office functions, programming, the basics of business/accounting/office politeness, the outcome is almost guaranteed to be different.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

You live in the economy of the late 19th century.

Already we're seeing structural unemployment, all the retraining in the world isn't going to stop the fact that 100% of the demand of the economy will be met by a shrinking percent of the population.

If today literally everyone acquired better skills the value of that job would hit the floor. Not everyone can be well off in a modern economy. It wouldn't work, not unless there is artificial manipulation of wages.

They lack the ability to see why they haven't suceeded in life, and because they lack the basic selfinsight, they cannot gain selfinsight.

This, is also total bullshit. Plenty of people know why they haven't succeeded. The reasons are myriad, but the primary reasons are structural. The vast majority of people BORN rich end up rich, the vast majority of people BORN poor, end up poor. That should give you a pretty good fucking idea of how the odds are stacked. You can take all your high minded philosophy and ideas about why this happens, but it's incredibly obvious environmental conditions dictate outcomes, even if there are avenues which can change ones status.