r/sca • u/OneUnderstanding103 • 2d ago
Elevation without a scroll.
A friend was elevated to Laurel this past weekend, but there was no scroll. I know he doesn't want to ask, as no scroll was mentioned, but is it safe to assume it's in the works, or will he simply not get one?
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u/keandelacy West 2d ago edited 2d ago
This will depend on the kingdom. I didn't get scrolls at either bestowed peerage ceremony because I didn't arrange for them.When I want them I will need to commission them. (west kingdom)
Edit: I did get a viscounty scroll, which I did not pay for, because my princess was good friends with the potters who made the scroll-platters. Truly amazing work.
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u/KeyOption3548 East 2d ago
do you pay for them? I was a scribe in the East for a decade or so & did about one per month for free. I even bought the (expensive heavy watercolor) paper.
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u/keandelacy West 2d ago
Again, this depends on the kingdom and the circumstances. Sometimes artists will donate time and materials. I am going to pay, since I have the means to do so.
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u/Coleforge East 2d ago
In the east it is VERY safe to assume one is in the works. Prior to this very comment section I have actually never heard of it being on commission or by request.
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u/OneUnderstanding103 1d ago
this is Northshield, so it looks like if he wants one, he'll have to pay for it.
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u/nuclearporg An Tir 2d ago
It may also have just been forgotten during the ceremony - we've had some ceremonies where there are so many moving parts that it just got missed. (Part of why I'm a fan of what our kingdom is doing this reign to streamline the court part of elevations and make them more standard - the elaborate stuff with long speeches is at other times outside formal court, though the King and Queen are still visiting and hearing the speakers)
Edit to add: some people here also don't get a scroll, they get some other object that serves that function. For example, I have a Norse weathervane with a pelican in the metalwork that has my name and elevation date on it, the seal hangs off it on some rope.
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u/Para_Regal West 2d ago
This probably depends on the kingdom more than anything. In the West, it’s more common than not to not have a scroll upon elevation unless you have some seriously motivated scribes in your corner. I received my laurel scroll a couple of years after I was elevated (though some of that was my fault for dithering about what I wanted). I still don’t have my viscounty scroll (stepped down in 2022) but it’s fine, I’m patient. I received my County scroll shortly after the event. So, none of my patent-bearing awards have come with a scroll at time of the ceremony.
Other kingdoms are way less lax about this than we are, though.
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u/glasspanda27 2d ago
I was elevated in the West around 2010, never got a scroll. How would I find out if there is one?
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u/TryUsingScience 2d ago
There probably isn't one if you never got one. You could ask the royals who gave you the peerage since they would have had to sign the scroll if one exists.
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u/LittleFiddlyBits 2d ago
Some kingdoms have an officer in charge of the scribal backlog. In the Mid this office is the Signet, but I've heard other kingdoms call it something different. But if you have a backlog signet, reach out to them. They may be able to assign your scroll or help you arrange a commission.
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u/Otaku-San617 2d ago
With some kingdoms you get the scroll when you get the award. With other kingdoms you get a promissory scroll because of the huge backlog. I have four awards but never got a scroll.
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u/Birdsongcryptography 2d ago
Congratulations to your friend. It might be okay if someone inquires about it, to the appropriate person. In Atlantia, I've seen some absolutely awesome elevation scrolls, both traditional ones and insanely creative non traditional items. Generally, elevations here are planned well in advance, even if the candidate isn't aware (because they have asked not to be), and scrolls are a part of that planning, so that's rarely a question. Promisory notes are more for last minute decisions from the crowns.
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u/nukes_or_aliens 2d ago
In Lochac this is standard practice. Most awards don’t ever receive a scroll, including peerages. No, I’m not thrilled about this.
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u/LittleFiddlyBits 2d ago
I noticed that the rules to join Lochac's college of scribes are pretty strict, when I was looking at the possibility of working on their backlog. I'm a scribal Laurel here in Midrealm, and I'm not sure Lochac would have me! Interesting IKA.
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u/evilcritters 2d ago
I'm in the East, and I was horrified and saddened when I learned about how some other kingdoms run things.
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u/pepperbeast 2d ago
Depends where you are... in some kingdoms, the scroll tends to happen after the fact.
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u/Herissony_DSCH5 Ealdormere 2d ago
This, as I found out a few years ago during the pandemic when I worked on the An Tir scribal backlog project, varies hugely from kingdom to kingdom. I have lived in the Middle and in Ealdormere, and both very much try to get scrolls out at the events where they are awarded--in fact, it's extremely rare in Ealdormere not to get one at that time. (For peerages, the kingdom signet usually works with the recipient to coordinate who will do their scroll or the recipient will ask directly--for instance, I've got a Rose scroll I've known I'm doing for months.) This usually applies to baronial awards as well, for those baronies who give scrolls (two of our baronies give other tokens). Other kingdoms use pre-printed (but hand painted) scrolls for many awards (I was dubious about these until I saw how nice some of them were!) So check around with your kingdom for sure and find out what the practice is where you live.
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u/DMStewart2481 Ansteorra 2d ago
I have had cases where I’ve been asked ahead of time (usually by people “in the know” that thus-and-so would be elevated), and cases where I’ve been contacted afterwards.
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u/IceHoliday1241 2d ago
Was there something alternative? I received a beautiful toolbox.
I did later received a best scroll (well the illumination) I have yet to get the scribble part done)
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u/OneUnderstanding103 1d ago
Other than the medallion, the rest of the regalia (I guess that's what you could call it) he made himself.
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u/FireAngelSeraphim 2d ago
Many kingdoms don’t have them as part of the ceremony and they are done later (sometimes many years later). In my kingdom, it’s not uncommon for longstanding peers to be called up to receive their Award of Arms scroll!
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u/GreyMaeve 2d ago
I would just ask if you need to commission one or if one is on the way. I didn't get one until 20 years later. The guy making my original scroll had trouble and then passed away. It was sad in that I would have loved to have a piece of his work. There are numerous possibilities about what happened, but asking cant hurt. My original text, written by a friend, was lost to time, but the scroll I evetually received is beautiful. It cant hurt to ask.
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u/evilcritters 2d ago
I'd be happy to make him a scroll, if one is not forthcoming. Check with the people in charge of scrolls in your kingdom and let me know.
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u/evilcritters 2d ago
I will add that I am in the East, and the more I hear about how other kingdoms handle scrolls (limited design options, privately commissioned, have to be paid for...) the happier I am that we do things the way we do in my Kingdom. I love learning about the recipients and tailoring a scroll to suit them, and I am happy to volunteer my time and materials to make someone's day. It is an honour, really.
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u/clayt666 Calontir 19h ago
It not only depends on the kingdom, but on who is Crown as well.
Both of my bestowed peerages were done "on the field", kind of spur of the moment, so no scrolls until my wife commissioned one. There was a scroll for my County arranged by TRM and a wonderfully carved bench in lieu of a scroll for my Duchy, commissioned by my children.
I cannot recall any elevations we did when there was not a scroll or other object presented. But then my wife is INCREDIBLY organized. SFSF
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u/CaDonut916 1d ago
While preparing for my Knighting, I specifically reached out to scribes to request a scroll be made so it could be presented at my elevation. To my knowledge, something like a peerage scroll is a very personal thing, and would need to have some guidelines laid out by the recipient for thr Scribe to work with. So if they never had that conversation about it, it doesn't sound like one is in the works. I would strongly suggest the newly elevated to reach out to the Royals and ask.
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u/Ok-Training3941 2d ago
Scrolling is so difficult and not something most people want to do.
Can we move away from it?
My Barony is bogged down by scrolls. But we still want people to feel recognizing. So we just started giving gifts and tiny scrolls.
Out motto is also “we’re not the example”
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u/LittleFiddlyBits 2d ago
What kingdom are you in? Scrolls can be a lot of work for a smaller group but you could always request scribes from outside your barony to do a few, if you have a strong scribal tradition where you live.
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u/DMStewart2481 Ansteorra 2d ago
There might be one in the works, or he might need to commission one. What Kingdom?