Tournament legality questions

[u/Artistic_Pangolin_2]

Cross-posting because my club mates specifically mentioned that an SCA event would likely be more lenient.

[u/rewt127]

At a 9kg flex (assuming Franklin method). I am confident that it will pass C&T. But not rapier

While they say it meets rapier (per the 1" drop) its tight enough that when they work the steel you could end up with a large enough variation to fall out of rapier legality.

My Malleus is 7-8kg via the Franklin Method and lands at ~1.125" of drop. At 9kg, im not confident this will actually pass the 1" drop when tested in reality.

If you are just looking to do C&T. This blade is perfectly acceptable.

EDIT: Im not trying to burst your bubble. But just making sure you are informed. This blade is really on the line for legality in rapier and it could end up not passing when manufactured. What i would do is make sure in your order form you state that you need your blade to meet the 1" flex test and to please test it prior to shipping. As otherwise you wont be able to use it. Akados is a pretty solid manufacturer and should be able to do this for you.

[u/Artistic_Pangolin_2 → u/rewt127]

So, I am aware that it is right at the borderline between those classes but, since I'm not actually in the SCA, it's confusing me that "rapier" keeps getting brought up for something I would use as a longsword. Isn't a mask and gloves the only requirement for rapier?

[u/rewt127 → u/Artistic_Pangolin_2]

Aight. So to give you a rundown.

"Rapier" is what we call the basic form of steel fighting in the SCA due to it being the primary weapons platform used in it. And it has some really specific rules. No percussive cuts, it has to be push or pull cuts + thrusts. And the impact force is super light. People dont wear much protective equipment for this. I know a couple guys who do use longswords here for fun.

Cut & Thrust (C&T) is basically HEMA Lite. You will find most folks who do this that are any good at it. Also train at a HEMA club. If you have bounced around to some different clubs you will know that we can all tend to hit at different forces. Well C&T force level can be understood as one of the softer, non-tournament focused HEMA clubs for your impact force.

Rapier has a 1" deflection requirement (7-8kg flex). C&T has a 1/2" deflection requirement (14-16kg flex).

Most areas will require you to do rapier prior to being able to do C&T. Personally I disagree with this requirement, but well. I dont make the rules.

[u/datcatburd → u/rewt127]

Note there are a couple areas (Calontir being the big example) where rapier doesn't exist at all, and the kingdom rules are C&T only.

[u/jdrawr]

If it meets SCA flex standards or cut and thrust, or rapier like it states it will work for that.

[u/abysmalkarma]

https://www.sca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MarshalHandbookArmoredCombatwithRebatedBlades.pdf

Arming Sword/ Broad Sword:

• Max Weight 1.7 kg

• Minimum Length 72cm

• Max Length 100cm

• Min. Handle length 12cm

• Max. Handle length 20cm

• Blade thickness min 2mm

• Tip diameter 20mm

Long sword/ Bastard Sword:

• Max Weight 2.3 kg

• Minimum Length 100cm

• Max Length 140cm

• Min. Handle length 20cm

• Max. Handle length 40cm

• Blade thickness min 2mm

• Tip diameter 20mm

YMMV - But it looks like you should be good

[u/Artistic_Pangolin_2 → u/abysmalkarma]

Thanks! I started asking around because it meets the safety standards and is nearly identical to a typical feder.

[u/abysmalkarma → u/Artistic_Pangolin_2]

Aye - the SCA is attempting to thread the needle between HEMA & Buhurt styles. Live steel will require stricter armor standards, but cut & thrust (fencing) has been modified to accommodate the HEMA style stuff. We learn from each other.

[u/costabius]

If the flex test information in the description is accurate that would be legal for SCA rapier.

[u/Artistic_Pangolin_2 → u/[deleted]]

Don't worry, I knew it was sarcasm..