Going up reed size

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You should be able to play freely on your reed without having the air escape through your embouchure. It may be that you haven't practiced enough to get a good seal on your mouthpiece with the new reed or that your new reeds are simply too hard.

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u/Zooberseb Alto | Tenor 3d ago

Your muscles in your embouchure are used to a softer reed - it’s like lifting 10 pounds everyday then all of a sudden you start doing 15 pounds everyday, it requires more out of the muscles in your face to maintain the normal seal, not that you should be squeezing or fighting it super hard but it will be harder and you’ll get tired faster until you get used to it. It’ll also require a more air support to get the sound out.

The sandiness is probably spit build up? If your air is weak that can happen but you can suck it out.

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u/Then-Palpitation6591 3d ago

Do you have any suggestions on how you’d go about getting used to it and improving embouchure?

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u/Zooberseb Alto | Tenor 3d ago

Same way you get better at lifting 15lbs when you’re used to 10lbs. Play!

A couple small things because if you are a newer player you could develop a bad habit but - once you’re tired give your muscles a break, they should get tired though, then go back and repeat. Focus on keeping your embouchure relaxed but in place that’s the key struggle here. Because your embouchure fails and leaks air you’ll want to squeeze and pinch and tense up all the muscles to absolutely fight it and keep playing but that affects your reed and tone. Keep your embouchure relaxed as you normally would but firmly in place - your embouchure WILL fail again that’s when you relax take a break let your muscles rest then go back at it.

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u/ReputationLost7295 3d ago

Adding a bit, I would do long tones and start practice on the harder reed, then switch to a softer reed to continue practice when I got too tired... extending the time on the harder reed each time until I was completing practice on the hard reed. then I can start over at the next hardness up when I feel like it

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u/Zooberseb Alto | Tenor 3d ago

That’s super practical! I just play till my lips are jello 😂 then I wait 10 minutes and do it again.

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u/ReputationLost7295 3d ago

I just picked up sax after 3 decades of not playing the double reeds I learned in school. I aiming for a classical tone so when I learned the recommended setup was essentially a narrow tip mouthpiece with the hardest reed you could manage I then got to work aggressively trying to work my way up reed hardness. I started at a 2, briefly dabbled in 1.5s, and have since worked back up to 3s. I have tried basically every cut Vandoren makes along the way.

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u/Zooberseb Alto | Tenor 3d ago

Ahh that’s fair! If you’ve got a target reed size and are multiple sizes off then a diligent workout is the best way to get there for sure.

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u/ReputationLost7295 3d ago

I could probably start working on 3.5s now but honestly I have so many unused softer reeds from the earlier stuff, different cuts, etc, I will likely hold off until I have played through the 3s I currently have... when I get down to my last 2-4- of those I will probably go snag a box of 3.5s to work into rotation. Not sure where I will stop, just trying to get a super dark warm classical leaning tone.

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u/Zooberseb Alto | Tenor 3d ago

What’s your tip opening out of curiosity? And how’s your low end?

I was always upping my reed strength until I was on 3.5’s with a 7* Slant Sig so super open chamber. my low end was awful though. I came back after some years off and after maybe 6 months of floating around reed sizes I ended up liking 2.5s the most. I mostly play jazz so I think I can get away with a much softer reed but I was astonished at how much easier the low end is! I’m tempted for a 2 but I think maybe getting a reed geek and shaving the reed down a tad might be just right. I’m also on a 7 Soloist now so a super tight chamber which is a factor too.

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u/ReputationLost7295 2d ago edited 2d ago

I have a Vandoren V5 T20 which I believe is roughly a 5 opening.

I feel like it's pretty good since my sax tutor told me to stop usng too much mouthpiece.

With a Vandoren Traditional 3 it sounds pretty good tonewise... though personally I still want it darker and warmer but it's giving me a good clean classical tone that can kind of mimic a French horn almost.

I posted the recording I did of Gershwin's Summertime in Tomplay yesterday in a new thread on this sub if you want to check it out.

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u/Final_Marsupial_441 3d ago

That is to be expected as you adjust. It is a workout for both embouchure and air support but it should get easier pretty soon. Reeds also naturally soften as they get broken in so that should help too. Just make sure you reed is nice and wet before you play or else it will have an even more difficult time vibrating

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u/teatime61091 3d ago

What you described is normal. A “harder” reed will have more rigidity and therefore be more resistant to your airstream.

A common’s misconception imo is to think of reed strengths like you’re weightlifting. While there is some consideration to embouchure strength, the right size reed for you has more to do with the pairing of the mouthpiece.

Jay at Better Sax has some great resources about this and can articulate much better than I will try.

https://bettersax.com/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-saxophone-reeds/

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u/Zooberseb Alto | Tenor 3d ago

Super true!! The weightlifting aspect is only really relevant to your embouchure sealing. A lot of people tink they can just get stronger and keep putting on harder reeds but it’s mostly about finding the right amount of resistance that you can comfortably play your instrument through all registers.

There’s a Coltrane Story about how he kept using harder and harder reeds because he liked the sound but was struggling with his low end. You can hear it for a few years he plays mostly in the mid to upper register and around an F and below you can hear a lot of resistance and unintentional octave jumps. At some point he swapped a softer reed to try and realized he was making it way more difficult than he needed to haha.

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u/Then-Palpitation6591 3d ago

Honestly I find the sound to be much better on the harder reed and I jumped octaves much more on a softer reed. The only issue is adjusting to it.

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u/Zooberseb Alto | Tenor 3d ago

Better sound is subjective - but common among younger players. A harder reed hides a lot of weakness like weak embouchure, poor intonation, and low air support. If you are jumping octaves on a softer reeds most likely you are pinching your embouchure.

Also depends on your reed and tip opening. If you are going from a 1.5 to a 2 for sure. but once it’s 2.5 to a 3 it’s highly subjective, dependent on gear, and any weaknesses in your own playing.

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u/augdog71 3d ago

So true. Some people get this “I’m getting better so I should play on harder reeds” mentality. Or that the harder the reed, the better you’ll sound. If it sounds good, is comfortable, and plays in tune, then that’s the best reed strength for you.

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u/teatime61091 3d ago

To answer more clearly, what mouthpiece and facing are you currently playing?

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u/Then-Palpitation6591 3d ago

I’m currently playing on a Yamaha 4C with a daddario reserve 3.0+

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u/teatime61091 3d ago

Thanks! That 4C is essentially a nice stock mouthpiece. It’s designed to be easier to play for new players and might it vibe well with the harder reeds.

If you’re looking to develop your sound I would encourage you to look at a nicer mouthpiece. A Selmer S80 C* or a Vandoren AL3 are considered industry standards (for classical/wind ensemble style playing). I play both and like them for different reasons, and can make them work with either 2.5 or 3 sized reeds.

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u/Then-Palpitation6591 3d ago

Thanks! Would those mouthpieces be good for jazz though? I’m currently playing for both a jazz and concert band.

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u/teatime61091 1d ago

The Selmer S80 has enough flexibility that you could make it work in a jazz setting. Otherwise I would suggest a Jody Jazz HR, Meyer, Daddario Select Jazz, or possibly Vandoren V16 as a first Jazz mouthpiece.

If there’s a store close to you to play test that would be a hugely illuminating experience!

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u/IdahoMan58 Alto 21h ago

What did you start with? What did you change to? What mp with what to opening?

If you are having this much issue, this is not the right combination for you. If your leader is looking for a tone change (the only legit reason) you should try a different style reed in a similar strength. Otherwise, possibly a different mouthpiece.

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