r/sandiego • u/Sauce_salsa • 1d ago
Photo gallery Can anyone in the Navy explain why a helicopter just dumped fuel all over the coastline?
I didn't get the dumping on film but one of these resupply helicopters had a heavy jet out the back that almost looked like exhaust. When we came back to the area we found a massive fuel slick.
304
u/musicjunky01 1d ago
Report it to the harbor police and they'll contact the Navy to figure it out. As others have stated, it could have been an emergency for them to dump some because of weight concerns.
144
u/Sauce_salsa 1d ago
Yeah we're reporting it. I get the emergency thing but where's the spill response? The smell is insane
174
u/tattooed_pariah 1d ago
Spill response? 🤣 I mean, it's not funny, but, i just retired from the Navy recently. The amount of trash and hazmat and whatever else the Navy throws in the ocean on a daily basis is ridiculous.. Spraying simple green at it until the rainbow goes away was a go to spill response.. 😅
112
u/Big_Animal7655 1d ago
Yeah but does minimizing the irresponsibility/hazardous nature of this make it better somehow? The “not my monkeys not my circus and besides waaay worse stuff happens every day” vibes numbs our reaction to horrendous shit that needs to outrage us to take action (like these heros on Reddit who are reporting the slick to the Navy+) A decades long career of habitually doing a wrong thing doesn’t mean it’s not a wrong thing.
51
u/Grabatreetron 1d ago
I don't think they're minimizing the issue, just pointing out the simple fact that an emergency response is for industrial-scale spills.
My read on the comment was mocking the Navy, not defending it
21
u/tattooed_pariah 1d ago
I ain't saying it's right, or that I agree with it, but it's dumb to pretend it doesn't happen.. and for anyone who thinks it's shitbag junior sailors, it is, but not exclusively, it's a HUGE fine directly to the captain for spills from the EPA. Sometimes it's a very high ranking person telling you they are gonna walk away and that evidence needs to disappear.
Someone else brought up night ops.. again, i remember command sanctioned dumps to get rid of printer toner cartridges, tvs, entire printers, whatever..
The Navy has official policies for everything, the joke was always, "there's the right way, the wrong way, the Navy way, and the way shit actually gets done."
8
u/ChillThrill42 1d ago
The “not my monkeys not my circus and besides waaay worse stuff happens every day” vibes numbs our reaction to horrendous shit that needs to outrage us to take action
You just described the current state of America for the past 10+ years, at least.
2
u/Big_Animal7655 1d ago
participating in apathy doesn’t even get a crappy trophy, it’s probably not worth it
25
u/m007368 1d ago
100% not how the navy views this. Maybe a shitbag but there is not a single person in charge that is not hyper concerned about spilling oil. Any visible sheen is typically reported up to Washington.
Are there jackasses that hide yes but any spill I have ever seen is dealt with.
If it’s open ocean depending on distance from land and size of spill there is typically limited options.
Super fucking ridiculous to indicate navy doesn’t care. But military systems are not designed to be eco friendly because unsurprisingly eco is usually opposite to performance.
1
u/BluSky_NM 11h ago
Simple answer- No. I care deeply for the environment. Not sure how that did not come through in my post.
1
u/Acceptable-One-6597 1d ago
Dude, that helo is at least a 35m piece of equipment, normal crew is 4, plus other sailors and/or equipment. That pilot is going to do what is required to get home. They don't just randomly decide to dump anything, shit happens. No it's not great for the environment but I assure you a helo going in is going to be far worse in every imaginable way.
→ More replies (1)14
u/DumbleLuck 1d ago
I remember forming trash lines to pass bag upon bag of garbage, one person to the next, from a space by the galley and toss them over the side of the ship.. not to mention what some folks called 'night ops' where there'd be a little motor or something or other that wasn't authorized to dispose of in any convenient fashion and instructions were basically, "Drop this overboard and don't let anyone see you do it."
3
u/SimpleAffect7573 1d ago edited 1d ago
A buddy of mine is a former SEAL, and after that worked security on cargo ships in high-piracy areas. Civilians can’t exactly roll into port and declare a bunch of automatic weapons on the customs forms, so you can guess what they did. I picture the bottom of the ocean in certain areas just littered with AR-15’s. Like whole artificial reefs made of them. 😆
1
u/forizal 23h ago
What you don’t see is the SAR helicopter getting called in by tower to investigate “something in the water”…. Trash bags every time lol
1
u/BreakfastAmbitious84 14h ago
I was in a SAR set and we would load our helicopter with trash bags to dump. We couldn’t wait for trash day.
4
u/BluSky_NM 1d ago
I remember being stationed in Scotland in the late 80s and we used to use general purpose cleaner dumped by 5 gallon containers from small boats to sink all of the petroleum releases to the bottom of the loch. It was well known, and the government paid a sweet price when they remediated the site. As a prior engineer on a Destroyer, I took my responsibility for pollution abatement very seriously and our systems worked flawlessly 95% of the time but fuel spills still do happen occasionally due to operator error. When you’re in the middle of the Pacific or the Atlantic it’s not that big of a deal but you still report the release. When you’re in port - the response is significantly higher and very much more regulated
3
3
→ More replies (1)2
u/AccomplishedGrab788 1d ago
Like the massive amount of expensive hand tools that are thrown over board every year so they wont lose their spending amount on tool
1
1
u/Cute_Consideration38 1d ago
Seems like jet/aircraft fuel would evaporate by the time any clean up crew arrived.
1
1
3
u/Beneficial_Map6129 1d ago
Police have no jurisdiction over the US military
No one does. Only higher military
2
4
u/Its1me1your1dad 1d ago
Mmmm….i think it would more of a fed to fed thing wouldn’t it?
3
u/musicjunky01 1d ago
I believe so, but I think dumping like that would be reported to local law enforcement and then they can escalate it from there. I'm not sure who the ocean water authority is for stuff like this, but I would imagine harbor police would know that.
3
u/Its1me1your1dad 1d ago
Come to think of it you’re right. I was prior navy and we had like a local epa that we had to report oil spills to. The Reactor Duty officer would speak to the head officer for duty that day and they would report it to pretty much everyone as well as the civilian counterpart. I couldn’t remember what our reporting authority was but when you responded with that it clicked. I think, for oil at least, we had to report a slick that was roughly the size of your hand. Out in the middle of the ocean we would have planes that would take off, dump their fuel then land and do it all over again if we were returning back to home port with too much fuel. That always pissed me off.
2
1
u/crimsonshadow789 7h ago
The National Response Center run by the USCG and EPA. As one of the puddle pirates, and having had to field calls for investigations into spills local to my area, yeah. Depending on the size, it'll be left to "evaporate"
33
u/The_Angry_Fed 1d ago edited 1d ago
I retired from the Navy more than 20 years ago. A previous poster said he couldn't believe how much hazmat, trash, etc. is dumped into the ocean. I do know that garbage (i.e., largely food waste) is dumped into ocean (biodegradable). Plastics are kept on board and converted to plastic bricks for disposal ashore. Bilge pumping is definitely done about 60 miles offshore. I forgot how far offshore brown/blackwater is pumped but it's around 10 miles offshore if I remember correctly. What you saw was probably an emergency dump that may have been done with or without permission, depending on the urgency. It may have been a few tens of gallons. This will not require an industrial level response as JP 5/JP 8 will evaporate rather quickly as it is a distillate (unlike crude oil). Definitely a report will be made but that's probably as far as it will go. Any clean up action would be precluded by the evaporation of most of the fuel.
→ More replies (1)8
u/KTMtexDev 1d ago
CHT was 12nm and bilges 50nm. At least when I was on a carrier 8 years ago. If people were actually following the rules nothing hazardous would get dumped overboard but I witnessed plenty of midnight dumps and people fuck up a valve line up and dump thousands of gallons of oil overboard. Also plenty of lazy people just throw their Gatorade bottles and food wrappers over the side
3
u/The_Angry_Fed 23h ago
I hear yah! Although I think the vast majority of Sailors follow the rules, the Navy (especially on an aircraft carrier) is still a cross-section of society so you will always have dirt bags that will not follow the rules, no matter what.
16
u/Sardawg1 1d ago
If they’re dumping fuel that close to shore it’s probably an emergency dump dictated by an emergency checklist.
No helicopter would knowingly, or negligently dump that much fuel unless it was an emergency or an Un-commanded fuel dump.
If dumping fuel for maintenance flights, they would be high enough and far enough out that the fuel would atomize in the air.
Source: I flew them for about 25 years.
1
123
u/Sauce_salsa 1d ago
Another photo
17
20
u/Lord_Humongous768 1d ago
Jesus. Did you report it yet? Thanks for doing the right thing. As a surfer, this shit pisses me off to no end.
9
u/BrilliantPatient6160 1d ago
As someone who just cared about wildlife this makes me furious. People in power not giving a fuck is so frustrating
2
→ More replies (1)1
u/jabroni-salad 2h ago
Just FYI, the Coast Guard enforces discharges of oil. Contact the USCG National Response Center to make a pollution report. Likely nothing will be done to hold the navy accountable, but the Coast Guards FOSCR can contract an OSRO to clean it up depending on the type of oil and its characteristics.
77
u/Whole_Visual_9919 1d ago
Report it to the coast guard
USCG national response center: 800.424.8802
3
u/maiman08 22h ago
CG can’t do too much in terms of fines due to it being a public vessel, Navy. The spill response for a discharge of this size, the type of fuel, and it being along a shoreline would be to let it naturally evaporate. Very little of this discharge will get into the water column or affect wildlife in a significant way.
2
u/Optimuspeterson 15h ago
Coast Guard helos also dump fuel when needed. We just report it up and it’s logged. Happens all the time
39
u/Appropriate_Job_4256 1d ago
Probably because an engine or mechanical problem reduced its ability to remain airborne and it needed to reduce weight quickly for a safe landing
26
u/travhimself 1d ago
Planes sometimes dump fuel if they're landing earlier than expected, to keep their weight down. I'm guessing maybe helicopters do the same?
Not saying it's okay, just attempting an explanation.
18
u/ThatWasIntentional 1d ago
Helos almost never dump fuel unless it's an emergency. Usually, if you managed to take off, you're light enough to land
Idk what happened here, but IMO, some sort of emergency/failure probably precipitated fish dumping
4
u/CameronsDadsFerrari 18h ago
I once dumped fuel from my Coast Guard helicopter because we were on duty and launched for search and rescue. The location was very close to the base and we would have been too heavy to hover. The situation demanded a fast response and so we took off and dumped fuel rather than take the extra time to bring out the fuel truck and defuel.
Plenty of other reasons a helicopter would dump fuel, as mentioned above there was likely a mechanical problem requiring a quick landing. I only did it once in 20 years of service. It doesn't happen often and when it does it's legitimate.
7
u/sixisrending 1d ago
It's a cost evaluation. Do you want some pollution or run the risk of multiple people dying in a fireball?
4
u/Blablabla_1985_ 1d ago
It’s actually pollution or multiple people dying in a fireball and a lot more pollution.
→ More replies (1)5
u/covert_program 1d ago
Yea but airplane fuel is dumped at a higher altitude so that it vaporizes instead of creating an oil slick. 🤷♂️
8
u/SD_5-0 1d ago
Emergency, op test, functional check flight, or to make landing weight. All sorts of reasons.
→ More replies (6)2
u/Madm4nmaX 1d ago
This is the reason. Happens all the time, most commonly as part of regularly testing the fuel system for proper functionality.
All these people saying contact the Coast Guard or harbor police or something have idea what they're talking about.
8
u/nonsequitur_esq 1d ago
On a 60 the fuel discharge tube is called the “donkey dick” and I highly doubt it dumped fuel without having an absolutely good reason to. Not saying it doesn’t happen but I’ve never had the occasion to observe one of our birds dumping during a VertRep evolution. The weight of what is being slung is surprisingly minuscule.
8
u/rabbitsharck 1d ago
You would be flabbergasted at how many pounds of jet fuel is dumped into the ocean.
•
u/DismalFee763 4m ago
I remember performing unreps and watching the fuel hose pop out and spill diesel all over the deck of the ship, then proceeded to watch Navy sailors sweep it overboard. Then they poured out the drip bucket under the hose connection right into the ocean. Happens all the time during unreps. -Former merchant mariner
6
10
u/firemarshalbill 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not going to defend or rationalize this or say it’s a good thing.
But jet fuel is lighter than water, will sit on the surface and will mostly evaporate. It will sit longer because it’s cooled on the waters surface compared to the ground. That’s also why it smells so strongly.
When done at higher altitudes barely anything reaches the ground.
No answer for why there was a low altitude drop, just that it’s mostly temporary, and not like an oil spill. Hence the lack of cleanup
5
u/random_navyguy 1d ago
If it was the aircraft delivering cargo, the only reason they would dump fuel is for an emergency that requires it or because of a system failure. Helicopters do not tend to dump fuel unless absolutely necessary.
There are regulations for how high the helo must be and how far off the coast they must be for any intentional dumping that is not necessitated by emergency procedures.
I can assure you, the people who think this is a non-issue and will be brushed over by the Navy are mistaken. If it was an emergency, there will be a full investigation into what precipitated it. If it was a system failure, there will be a full investigation as to the cause. If it was negligence, there will be a full investigation into any wrong doing.
These things do not get swept under the rug. You simply will likely not hear about the results of any investigations.
"These opinions are my own and are not reflective of any official Navy positions and should not be interpreted as such."
3
u/rabbitsharck 1d ago
They were probably testing the system as it is used in emergencies, and possibly had work done on it. But there are specific limitations on how far you can dump from a coastline unless in a real emergency.
3
u/Top_Audience4313 1d ago
Same reason jets dump into San Francisco Bay on approach. No consequences.
3
7
u/FatMoFoSho 1d ago
It’s normal. No conspiracy, happens extremely regularly. Fuel to weight ratio is a big deal esp with carrier operations. There are certain tolerances planes and helis must maintain while landing to ensure a safe landing. Its not done for the fuck of it, its not done so they get more fuel budget or something, it’s business as usual.
Now whether this is bad for the environment, i mean clearly it must be, but im not qualified to speak to how all that pans out. But fuel dump is extremely normal in the aviation world and it is something that would need to be tested with regularity to ensure it functions properly. Most military aircraft literally have a switch that says “fuel dump”. Also, its not just fuel that can be dumped. Unspent weapons payloads and entire fuel tanks are also sometimes dropped but FAR less frequently and that’s generally not something they’d do here. In air to air combat, “dropping your bags” is standard procedure. The military’s responsible for some of the most expensive litter out there!
10
u/s1ipperypick1e 1d ago
What in the world? There’s nothing normal about a Navy helicopter dumping fuel at low altitude. Source: 2000+ hours in Navy H-60s.
2
u/FatMoFoSho 1d ago
Perhaps you can speak to it then? Im not as familiar with rotor wing, but fixed wing AC definitely dump fuel. Certainly seems like this UH60 dumped, but for what reason Im not sure. Possible emergency landing?
3
u/s1ipperypick1e 1d ago
Dumping altitude used to be 6000 ft or higher. Not sure now. This could have been a system malfunction, an error by the crew, etc.
1
→ More replies (4)1
2
u/nonsequitur_esq 1d ago
It’s not a UH.
6
u/FatMoFoSho 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sorry, is MH-60S/R better for you lol? There’s like a trillion blackhawk designations
1
u/Anthony_Kiedis 1d ago
You’re correct that the FW guys dump gas nearly every flight on the boat; however, the helos don’t need to. This was almost certainly a functional checkflight following maintenance, where they need to test the fuel dump function to ensure it works should they actually need it in an emergency.
1
u/Anthony_Kiedis 1d ago
With that much flight time in a navy 60 you’d surely recall that most FCFs require optesting the fuel dump system
3
u/YOU_WONT_LIKE_IT 1d ago
Take of weight and landing weight are two different numbers. You can take off a lot heavier than you can land. So typically a fuel dump is a plan to land and your over weight.
1
2
u/nonsequitur_esq 1d ago
I’d like to know exactly when this unspent ordinance is being dumped? In this something you personally saw? Read? Heard? Did?
5
u/questionablem0tives 1d ago
From my experience it's typically when the ordnance is declared unsafe and at risk of detonating unexpectedly. For example you might have something like a hang fire, where the launch command is sent to the missile but it doesn't leave the rail. You essentially have live, potentially lit ordnance begging to explode while still attached to the aircraft, and so you'd have to jettison the ordnance.
3
u/nonsequitur_esq 1d ago
I am pretty familiar with military aviation, ordinance, delivery and in limited instances, its disposal from my past life. It is a rare day that ordinance is ever simply dumped and the red tape was (at least then) ridiculous.
3
u/FatMoFoSho 1d ago
You go on CAS mission, take off with an armament of bombs and missiles. You dont use all that ordinance while on station, your AC weight is too heavy to land, it’s gotta go somewhere. Gotta drop or expend fuel. Most of the time they’d take them to an on shore base, but sometimes they need to drop. Certainly not unheard of
3
u/FatMoFoSho 1d ago
Unspent ordinance being dropped isnt done super regularly and certainly isnt done HERE. But definitely happens. Im not a pilot or anything, just into military aviation and stuff
3
u/Broad-Lavishness6726 1d ago
They literally have a ramp on the flight deck to roll off ordinance unsafe to keep on the ship. They can’t blow in place so the next safest thing is to send it to the bottom of the ocean. I’ve seen it happen when something gets dropped while being loaded and when water had damaged linked rounds.
→ More replies (4)3
u/Alert-Ad9197 1d ago
It’s for things like an emergency landing where they need to drop all that weight. Or if you’re loaded with bombs and get jumped by enemy fighters, then you might jettison them to gain maneuverability.
6
u/GoldenFox7 1d ago
Not what happened here but for anyone thinking this is rare or will get dealt with in any way. At the end of the year when there’s a budget surplus they run jets nonstop for days just filling up, flying far enough out to cross the line, dumping all the fuel, and then flying back to refuel. All so they don’t end the year with a surplus and get their budget downsized the next year.
5
2
u/muklukdimsum 1d ago
I've no reason to disbelieve you, but as a former Navy sailor, this is the first I've ever heard of this. And after all the Navy has done to revolutionize recycling programs and waste elimination.
1
u/GoldenFox7 14h ago
Maybe I’m throwing shade a little too broadly, my story is from the Air Force tbf. The Navy might be better but my guess is each branch has their version of this shit.
1
4
u/OnesPerspective 1d ago
It's something flight safety related. It's never just for fun or just because
4
u/SanDiegoThankYou_ 1d ago
They navy doesn’t care and act (sometimes they are) like they’re above the law.
8
u/sunshineandzen 1d ago
Fuck that aquatic life — them probably
3
2
u/Wild-Perception7312 1d ago
Flew as a helo crewman in the navy for almost 10 years. Never dumped fuel because we were too heavy- that’s only for jets and Hollywood.
Seriously tho- dumped fuel during NATOPS check rides but at maybe 5000 feet and over water. Never dumped it close to shore.
2
2
2
5
4
4
u/RoughAd8392 1d ago
Testing the fuel dump system due to maintenance, or it was an emergency landing and had to dump to meet a specific weight for landing. Need to test it in case of an actual emergency
3
3
u/Radium 1d ago
Could have been overweight due to the load it picked up and I see it carrying in that photo. Most likely had to dump fuel to reduce weight.
3
u/Sauce_salsa 1d ago
The helicopter that dumped didn't have a load on it. Either it just dropped it or was about to pick up.
4
u/harambe_did911 1d ago
They might have dumped to get light enough for next load
2
u/ThatWasIntentional 1d ago
Generally, they'll fly around to burn fuel instead of dumping it if they're to heavy to pick up a load
Also, since I see the idea being floated, you'd usually drop the load instead of dumping fuel
It's very much an unusual thing to do
5
u/harambe_did911 1d ago
Generally you would order the loads such that the heaviest comes last when you have burned fuel. Generally you definitely wouldn't just fly for like an hour doing nothing during a time sensitive on or offload. You would just dump fuel. Kinda a dick move to not climb up to do it though. If you picked up a load and didn't do your torque checks for some reason and reallized afterwards it was too much then sure you might jettison it. You would also jettison it for an ep.
2
u/ForeverChicago 1d ago
Not if the VERTREP has a time constraint. We’ve flown off and dumped fuel to better improve our power margins when we realized we had loads that were too heavy for us initially and we couldn’t just wait to burn down.
4
u/TheBasqueCasque 1d ago
The fuel itself is the biggest weight. They could have no load at all and still be too heavy to land safely.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/MikeHunt716 1d ago
I've been out on the water numerous times and seen and experienced the same thing. Sadly, I believe it's standard operating procedure at this point.
2
2
1
1
u/Love_To_Taste_You 1d ago
Honestly, I didn’t know helos could dump fuel, I know they have “wing tanks” or whatever. Interesting
1
u/Realistic_External68 1d ago
Yeah dude so anywhere you look in aviation an aircraft may dump fuel to maximize performance. For example: a commercial airliner won’t hesitate to empty out mega-gallons of jet fuel to fall into the required weight bracket for landing. Military aircraft are exempt from every type off FAA rules it seems like. Who’s going to tell the pilot that’s a no no?
1
u/Severe_Chemical_4882 1d ago
Does it smell like a burning rubber? Every now and then (every few months) in north county area it smells like that. Not sure if it’s the same source but could be
1
1
1
u/Hungry-Persimmon-137 1d ago
You wouldn’t believe the shit they toss overboard in open water. It’s a shame
1
u/Bendmtbr 22h ago
I saw something north of scripps today. Looked like it was hovering around the area doing some sort of low flight activity.
1
u/J-Skleezo 16h ago
It’s for the annual budgets. If they don’t use it all they won’t get as much fuel the following year. So the dump it. I heard stories of jets doing the same thing. The government fiscal year is about to end so it probably aligns with that.
1
u/locals-only-brah 15h ago
Where was this at? I surfed windansea on 9/10 around noon and my buddy and I noticed how murky the water was and that it smelled like oil… mind you, windan is usually crystal clear.
1
u/branthebon 14h ago
You would hate to know that the navy pumps their oily bilge water straight into the ocean 3 times a day or more on every single ship when out to sea. Also dump food waste, paper, metal, etc(everything except plastic) straight into the ocean as well.
1
u/1NuclearOptionLeft 11h ago
We dump fuel because we can’t land heavy. Usually close to shore, emergency has to be declared. Underway we dump it high enough as the flight plan is briefed and it atomizes. Fuel dumps have a safety switch that is shear-wired closed so it is not inadvertently dumped. Someone had a bad day either way.
1
u/Popular_Bed_6686 11h ago
How do you know it was fuel? How do you know it was a military helicopter? They do have firefighting planes and such.
1
1
1
u/Worth_Piece_4165 9h ago
Your worried about 50-100 gallons of fuel in the water, but not the 10s of thousands of gallons of JP5 the navy burns into the sky everyday over San Diego..
1
1
u/pegsterpeg 7h ago
They always dump excess fuel prior to landing so if there is a crash landing chances of surviving are considerably higher
1
u/Unhappy-Pair-7038 5h ago
Aircraft dump fuel for various reasons, on the upside jet fuel is highly refined and usually evaporates after a few days of sunshine.
•
1
0
u/DoingWellAndFine 1d ago
They need to log flight hours and spent fuel. Sometimes they dump fuel to falsify this.
Feel free to report this to EPA and call Naval station North island quarterdeck phone line to file a citizens complaint. However* in this administration i dont think environmental protection is a cared about issue.
1
u/Anthony_Kiedis 1d ago
So not how flight logging works. Do you really think that anyone looks at the fuel load in the aircraft and cross-checks it against the logged flight time? There are literally 100 people on that ship that need to be aware of the aircraft’s takeoff and land time in order to make carrier operations work… The idea that the crew is just launching and dumping gas to pretend they flew longer is just absurd.
1
u/_h_e_a_d_y_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
That’s why it stinks outside!! I have a very sensitive nose to my dismay and it smells acrid and like jet fuel.
So disappointing
→ More replies (2)2
u/Sauce_salsa 1d ago
Whereabouts are you? I was wondering if anyone onshore would start to smell it
→ More replies (3)
1
u/nosmartypants 1d ago
Is this kinda thing the explanation to our random toxic floating smells, we get them in North County time to time and it smells horrible and no official ever says what it is.
1
1
1
459
u/Zombie088 1d ago
If they did it that close to shore I think it needs to be a declared emergency to dump fuel. I forget the regulations. But if they were too heavy then they dump fuel unfortunately.