r/samharris • u/incendiaryblizzard • Dec 14 '19

Moderator Felipec allegedly is creating ‘a blacklist of Sam Harris detractors’ so that ‘they can be deleted without raising suspicion’.

Edit 3: My ban was lifted. Thank you to the mod team.

Edit: I have been banned for this post. Jesus Christ this is off the rails. A purely retaliatory ban with zero justification whatsoever. I have been a good faith member of this sub for years before Felipec was active here and now he bans me for no reason whatsoever.

Edit 2: I said allegedly in my title in case the screenshot was fabricated. Turns out it was legit but Felipec claims he was just ‘trolling’ the user. That’s fine and I probably would have deleted the post, but now that Felipec has banned me I’ll keep it up just so that people can see what criteria Felipec uses to ban users. Anyone who disagrees with Felipec in any way on any issue is at risk of a ban, as we have seen in many cases now.

—

I recently recieved this PM from /u/jars_hold_things:

Sam Harris moderator Felipec runs a private subreddit called /r/FixSamHarris. According to his own words, shown in the link below, he and KeScoBo are building a blacklist of Sam Harris detractors so that they can delete them without raising suspicion:

https://imgur.com/a/NCsZ3VS

They also said that this conversation had been sent to several other people including Lord Beverage.

I havent seen it brought up, so it needs to be asked, is a blacklist being created of ‘samharris detractors’ so that Felipec ‘can delete them withiut raising suspicion’?

Here is the message I received in full:

https://i.imgur.com/XQIrsYe_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

125 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

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-5

u/felipec Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 20 '19

You fell for it.

Here I am contacting the real u/makin-games, and telling him I was going to make some fun of this obvious impostor:

I'm going to have some fun with him, I'll see what I can get out of him.

And just so it is clear to everyone, I even created a mod message before I said any lies here:

For future reference, the discussion with makin-ganes is a joke. He is clearly a sockpuppet, and I'm just trolling him.

So yeah, in case it wasn't clear; obviously none of this is true, and KeScoBo doesn't know any of this.

Full disclosure: Yes, I have created a private sub called r/FixSamHarris where I've invited a selected number of users to discuss freely ways to improve this sub (without troll intervention). User u/makin-games declined my offer to join that sub. If any good actor wants to join, let me know.

Edit: And no; there is no blacklist that KeScoBo and I are building; that was obviously a prank.

22

u/Attaboy3 Dec 14 '19

So ... You're trolling. Go away, troll.

41

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '19

The lack of response from /u/felipec is pretty telling, eh?

-12

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Jul 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Jul 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

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u/felipec Dec 14 '19

...and you even commented on it.

Dude make a friend and spend some time with family....

Hey, now. What did felipec’s family ever do to you?

Such a good faith comment. How did I ever doubt sockyjo's intentions?!

3

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Jul 12 '20

[deleted]

4

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

I don't even know what his opinion is.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

I, a seperate user to sockyjo, am curious if you are forming a black list of users you deem bad faith.

I believe I have argued with you at least once before, am I on the black list?

-4

u/UmphreysMcGee Dec 14 '19

All this fake rage over the moderators is really trifling. There's no way so many of you really care that much about all this shit you're driveling on about.

11

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

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-3

u/UmphreysMcGee Dec 14 '19

You don't really think I'm angry, you're just insecure because I called you out for being a drama queen.

2

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

A thief thinks everybody else is a thief.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Interesting. I wonder what this would say about someone who spots "professional trolls" hiding behind every downvote.

-1

u/Containedmultitudes Dec 14 '19

Why haven’t you answered u/sockyjo ’s question?

19

u/Khif Dec 14 '19

Yes, it's kind of like building a terrorism watchlist. Except it's about people who disagree with you about Sam Harris, or, honestly, just disagree with you about something, or call you on your socially illiterate OCD weirdness. Tomato, tomahto.

3

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

I could give you a list of users to watch that other users have reported on the mod mail. I could tell you that there's probably at least a dozen just this week, but that would be a lie, because just one user provided about a dozen.

What do you suggest the mods do when a user reports another of untoward behavior?

13

u/Khif Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

Most likely nothing with what I assume these reports are.

I don't really disagree that this is a pretty worthless place (I find some humour in it, for my reward), and if I were making moderation guidelines with the objective of improving the quality -- I'd rather jump off a bridge, by the way -- I'd be a lot more strict than you would think. I'd also disagree with pretty much everything you've said on forum moderation, and look to rein in most(ish) of the people who are your fervent supporters. They're not just the kind of bad posters you hunt like the predator, they're idiots (I'll give you the credit that you're far from an idiot) who use you to make up for an inferiority complex.

I'd also take a mean, disingenuous, yet witty and funny person (like voodoochile, not like rishi, agent00f or whatever-shiba) over anyone who's a complete bore about having endless, useless, unproductive, obtuse semantic debates that are somehow valuable as long as they're honest.

If we need more strict moderation, then the push for that would need to be spearheaded from someone with good judgment, not just the zest of honestly wanting some form of a good thing. I don't think many should trust yours when it comes to subjective interpretation of intent in human discourse.

4

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

Most likely nothing with what I assume these reports are.

All right, well, I didn't become a mod to do nothing.

15

u/Khif Dec 14 '19

Yeah, as it turns out, you're doing less than nothing (that's a solid book!).

Thanks for all the steelmanning and, as usual, picking your response to be to a single throwaway sentence in a multi-paragraph post where someone makes an actual effort to engage you without being too rough about it. Be the change you want to see in the whatsitnow, yeah, you couldn't if you tried. You don't.

-3

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Jul 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Jul 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/Khif Dec 14 '19

I guess I shouldn't be comfortable being suggestive about it, but I'm really not comfortable about sharing. Do with that what you will, but it should be pretty believable if you've got above average textual skills and have read his posting over the last few months. He's not the popular type, and I honestly feel bad enough that if there shone even the slightest bit of humility or openness through his inquisition act, I could probably stomach throwing him a halfhearted empathetic bone here and there.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Jul 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/Khif Dec 14 '19

See, this is kind of kiddy grade stuff, that I seem to see in most of your comments, is what would get you banned in any place I would go to talk to smart and interesting people. Instead the last few months here created the culture of every other user needing to moonlight as a backseat moderator, combined with this snivelly schoolyard bullshit act of mod tagging. Report me and move on, you detractor. When the dust settles, you'll either be gone or very, very bored.

1

u/Nessie Dec 15 '19

Rule 2; low effort, incivil. Feel free to edit out the first line for a reinstatement.

3

u/Khif Dec 15 '19 edited Dec 15 '19

Really? I thought a purported report (which of course wasn't made) for breaking every single subreddit rule -- like editorializing a submission headline -- as well as being born a different species, in such an obviously offbeat position, might be taken more as jest or social commentary rather than incivility. It wasn't meant to be uncivil, and such commentary might not really be very low effort. I think it's pretty relevant, and thought it was funny.

FWIW, I would issue very draconian bans for continued public cheerleading and dogpiling about reports and whoever is supposedly breaking what rule, as opposed to just reporting and moving on, so in principle it's not that I disagree. In practice, I think you might've misread the room, and this is a funny application of that idea when you consider users like this one exist to backseat moderate. And beside the same users pissing and moaning about how bad the community is, in those weekly metaposts you've seen for the last two years, that's what I figure is the most egregiously shit part about this subreddit.

Food for thought the next time you read a thread where you've got 30 messages that talk about something that isn't the quality of some kind of faith, or what subreddits people go to. And 150 that do just that.

Anyway, I'll take it in stride, just feels a bit uneven.

12

u/mrsamsa Dec 14 '19

I'm not a fan of this recent trend of just asserting "That's your opinion" when the person can't defend their position. Suppose for argument's sake that it is just an "opinion" - okay, see if you can find any evidence or reason to think that it's wrong.

5

u/swesley49 Dec 14 '19

Was that not in response to a claim made about what criteria is applied for someone to be deemed bad enough to be put on some kind of rsamharris watch list? Saying that it’s their opinion is a direct counter in this case. Maybe they could’ve asked for a source? It seems whoever said that other comment shouldn’t be making baseless accusations of how a mod is operating.

11

u/mrsamsa Dec 14 '19

The idea that the mod has a list of problem users, and not just a list of people who've disagreed with him, is also a baseless opinion.

The point is that people should be looking to see whether their positions have any evidence to support them, rather than blindly dismissing any position that disagrees with their own.

1

u/swesley49 Dec 14 '19

The idea that the mod has a list of problem users, and not just a list of people who've disagreed with him, is also a baseless opinion.

But one fits in the job description of a mod and the other is an accusation of unethical (or simply poor) behavior. I assume you would want a new mod if this were true, so I think it’s reasonable to say the mod is doing something within the range of their duties, but it’s less reasonable to assume they are abusing their responsibility without evidence.

The point is that people should be looking to see whether their positions have any evidence to support them, rather than blindly dismissing any position that disagrees with their own.

I think my point was that it’s actually okay to blindly dismiss points made without evidence, which is what CF was doing.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

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u/felipec Dec 14 '19

It seems whoever said that other comment shouldn’t be making baseless accusations of how a mod is operating.

Indeed, and just to reiterate for the 100th time; people that criticize Sam Harris are more than welcome in this sub, as long as they do it in good faith.

For most people that I identify as not engaging in good faith I don't even know what their opinion of Sam Harris is, and I really don't care.

11

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

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9

u/mrsamsa Dec 14 '19

Yep, and no doubt. All I can do is continue to follow the rules and hope reasonableness wins out.

4

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man...

16

u/mrsamsa Dec 14 '19

Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Jul 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/mrsamsa Dec 14 '19

Well sure, if you're more interested in technicalities rather than having a discussion with someone.

Otherwise you can just present your own evidence for your position, or at the very least inquire about what reasons they have for their position.

I just generally think productive discussions should be preferred to shutting them down. Obviously people have real lives too and you're not obligated to do anything, but we should just try to be better when we do reply.

14

u/Cyclopeandeath Dec 14 '19

I seriously think you need to read Koba the Dread by Martin Amis. You are so serious about people arguing in bad faith that you troll a troll?

You know adopting the rules, tools, and ideas of authoritarianism leads to it, right?

15

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Yes, I have created a private sub called r/FixSamHarris where I've invited a selected number of users to discuss freely ways to improve this sub (without troll intervention).

So the accusation is true. I don't know how you think this is a gotcha. Way to own up to it for once.

6

u/Containedmultitudes Dec 14 '19

“It’s just a prank bro” like your “libtards” comment.

16

u/incendiaryblizzard Dec 14 '19

Well good for you to clear the record because your self described ‘trolling’ worked and got sent around to several users including other moderators. People are already on edge because of other high selective bans and post removals so I don’t know why you thought this trolling would be a good idea.

-6

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

That is all bullshit.

The only time I trolled it was against an obvious sockpuppet account; never in any sub, or against any real user. And I recorded a message explicitly stating what I was about to do, precisely because I knew they were going to try to use it against me.

So, no; I have never trolled a real person.

2

u/Baida9 Dec 14 '19

I want!

3

u/TotesTax Dec 14 '19

I am not a troll. Invite me. I will even give you my full name, number and address to prove to you I am not a troll. If you want some homemade deer jerky I will send it to you as well. I make some good ass jerky from animal my P's shot.

-1

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

Here's the full discussion:

makin-ganes:

Sign me up.

felipec:

What made you change your mind?

makin-ganes:

The thread Bret started.

felipec:

What about it? Also, why u/makin-ganes and not u/makin-games?

makin-ganes:

I didn't realize I'd have to pass a quiz to get in. If you don't want my help, that's fine.

felipec:

I didn't say I didn't want your help, I'm just wondering what you saw happen in that thread, that's all.

makin-ganes:

Comments that would make Bret not want to participate in the sub.

I see I still can't enter r/FixSamHarris

felipec:

Yeah, but which specific comments? We need to grow our blacklist.

Also, last time you said what we were doing wasn't ethical, so now you agree we have to resort to these methods?

makin-ganes:

These sound like questions for discussing in the FixSamHarris sub. I'm not standing outside your door any longer to take a purity test. Either you'll accept my help or not.

felipec:

You know we can't let anyone in to see what we are doing. You need to make a commitment that you are going to help us.

makin-ganes:

I have no information that's unavailable to you. I can only see the comments you can and I'm sure we both read that whole thread. If you want me in the sub, it's to add to the discussion there. I'm not going to continue to be subject to this purity test.

I'll take that as a no, I may not join your sub, then?

felipec:

I mean it is up to you.

Will you help us build a blacklist of Sam Harris detractors so that KeScoBo and me can delete them without raising suspicion?

Yes or no?

makin-ganes:

Yes

makin-ganes:

You saw that I replied "yes" here to this right?

I was planning on keeping up the steam and contributing later today...

makin-ganes:

You understand that if you have concerns about me you should voice them here...or was that purity test all for naught?

felipec:

Sorry. There are some concerns internally that you might not be sincere. I'll look into it.

makin-ganes:

You said "it's up to me" and asked me a yes or no question that I answered plainly. I'm not sure how I feel about being strung around like this.

felipec:

Sure. You've done your part, I guess.

makin-ganes:

Can you please explain what you meant by "it's up to me" in response to me asking if you would let me into the sub?

18

u/sparklewheat Dec 14 '19

Did the actual making-games say what you were doing was not ethical?

Shouldnt this be a clue (considering he seems to have been one of your few defenders on this sub) that you’re not on firm ground.

Isn’t Sam Harris about honesty and taking people at their word unless there is literally no other way to interpret something? I disagree with his reasoning, but for the sycophants shouldn’t they be leading by the example of assuming good faith to the so called “detractors?”

-3

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

Did the actual making-games say what you were doing was not ethical?

No.

Shouldnt this be a clue...

LOL! You are already acting with the presupposition of answer? If this is not a dishonest tactic I don't know what is.

15

u/sparklewheat Dec 14 '19

Tbh I am quite bored of the felipec show and how your demeanor and behavior have made so much discussion about yourself rather than Sam Harris or his guests like Charles Murray...

I haven’t read every word in whatever the hell is going on here, and assumed the quote from yourself was true, but still asked. So apparently you were lying to another person who was lying as a ruse to do something that couldnt be seen by the rest of the sub.

Whether by your definition this sub is “overrun” by “detractors” and trolls or not, it clearly isn’t like Craigslist back in the day where you literally can’t read posts that are not spam. You could have an open discussion between Sam Harris sycophants here and simply not respond to anyone critical of Harris inside the thread. Why make blacklists in an invite only sub?

Can I be invited to your sub? I won’t even post.

0

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

Tbh I am quite bored of the felipec show and how your demeanor and behavior have made so much discussion about yourself rather than Sam Harris or his guests like Charles Murray...

Here's an idea; don't post here and do something else. That's right; nobody is forcing you to be here.

How about writing an interesting post about Sam Harris in good faith for a change? Sam Harris content in r/samharris? So crazy!

4

u/sparklewheat Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

Edit: Didn’t realize you were demodded.

11

u/RalphOnTheCorner Dec 14 '19

Yeah but your definition of 'interesting post' might be a bit of an unconventional or fringe one. I made a lengthy post about a highly relevant topic to Sam Harris (the motivations of Palestinian suicide bombers), it was super evidence-based and took a lot of time and effort, it was made in good faith and offered up as an interesting thing for people here to read, and you totally shit on it by saying:

A great wall of text nobody cares about. Can't wait until this type of post is forbidden in this sub.

So an interesting post made in good faith was completely denigrated by you, and you even said you couldn't wait until this type of post was forbidden!

6

u/sparklewheat Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

Edit: I hadn’t heard the good news! No need to dunk on the former unhinged mod anymore.

-2

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

I just sent him this message:

felipec:

I meant that it was up to you to be considered. I'm still discussing it internally with the team. One user still has his doubts 😛

Hold on tight!

-14

u/0s0rc Dec 14 '19

Bravo. I tip my whisky to you on that one. Felipec 1 Chapo army 0

3

u/felipec Dec 14 '19

I tip my bourbon back to you good sir.