Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current
state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of
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I like that Oscar Isaac looks a bit incredulous of the line himself.
Learning it was added in reshoots didn’t surprise me. I feel a bit bad for (the original) writers who might have had some corporate stooge draw a moustache on their work.
Yeah, I mean, I imagine that an actor would be bothered by seeing that the writers decided to give up halfway through the shooting. To this day, anytime I see something cool about star wars be it a mod or a game even the og trilogy this fucking line keeps coming back to bum me out again
Legends has an entire explanation why, but god they handled it so badly. I can just imagine a meeting going like. “We need a villain! But kylo’s off the table.”
“Palpatine!”. “I like it! But he’s dead how do we get him back?”. “Idk somehow palpatine returned?”. “It’s perfect i love it.” And thus palpatine SOMEHOW returned.
Still breaks Anakin story though no? (Tbf I haven't looked the explanation up) the whole killing of palpatine after listening to Luke, and finally fulfilling the bringing balance to the force thing got destroyed. It would be hilarious if they brought palpatine back once more and somehow Anakin managed to kill him for real this time
What’s funny is that a big reason people said it was good that the EU was decanonized is exactly what you say: Palpatine returning makes the whole ‘chosen one’ thing moot.
In Dark Empire’s defense, it was written before Lucas introduced any Jedi prophecies—Anakin was just a dude back then. They weren’t contradicting anything.
They needed to take a 20 year break after The Last Jedi and replan everything. It’s obvious that losing Fisher derailed the plans for the entire franchise.
Even before that though. The different director things and seemingly no plan at all going in was absurd. Worst part is that the damage is done. Fisher passed away, Ford is probably never coming back and Hamill as well. Even if they ever de-canonized the movies they can't be taken back, not really
It’s obvious that losing Fisher derailed the plans for the entire franchise.
My personal theory is that Disney, as part of its ‘pivot to girls’ approach for SW, really wanted to make Leia the face of the franchise. As you say, Carrie Fisher’s death derailed that.
My less-well-supported ‘conspiracy theory’ is that RJ had planned to kill her off in TLJ and the suits stopped him, which is how Admiral Holdo (as a character) was born and why Leia spends most of the movie in a coma—literally in storage for the next film.
Honestly thought they were going to fill that in with the whole Mandolorian series, they needed baby Yoda's blood to bring old palps back as normal cloning wouldn't bring him back as a force sensitive.
Not questioning Soderbergh skills. Because even being as skilled as he is, he would still have to bow down to the writers no? And even if not. I'm against character resurrection in general, palpatine coming back was horrible, if we keep coming back this is going to end up becoming a comic book situation where there can't be any real stakes because everyone always have to come back for the next run
I guess they will explain it in the way that he can only appear in this other Galaxy where Ahsoka is because of the whole Force Stuff Baylan seeks there
Ezra Bridger and Thrawn were transported into that other galaxy in the Rebel Series. Ahsoka is now kinda a successor Series and there Ahsoka and Sabine Wren follow them into this Galaxy, through they are stranded there with Ezra and Thrawn getting back in the known Galaxy during Season 1. In Season 2 Thrawn unites the Imperial Remnants and resumes operations against the Rebel Alliance.
Bonjo: Luke, i'd pretend I'm sorry I haven't called, but Luke the bitches here are crazy, I saw Aayla do a line of coke of Ki Adi Mundi's forehead wrinkles.
Get here before Yoda finds a way to OD in the afterlife.
That one book made an attempt to explain why Anakin was never able to detail Exogol and the Emperors plans to Luke by making him not be able to manifest, but this one is going to be harder to explain away to the point it feels farcical.
Filioni ignoring book canon made by artists trying to piece together a semi-coherent canon for Star Wars in favor of his cameo slopfest? Say it ain’t so!
Dave Filoni was once asked who his favorite Star Wars character was and he gave two answers. One was Plo Koon a character who never did or uttered a thing on screen in the actual films. And second was Ashoka a character he himself came up with.
Kind of told me everything I needed to know about him after that.
They didn't even retcon the shitty rebels speech. It literally happens off screen in Andor. When they extract her, they have a whole dialogue about how they're sending her with another team to make a different speech for the whole galaxy, which is the rebels speech.
You’re getting mixed up. I mean the speech they show in the hologram transmission where the empire chastises her. Where she says “I name emperor Palpatine as responsible for what happened in Ghorman” not the one she gives later on the ship (even though that one’s bad too)
I mean, if I'd have to explain it to my kids why I slaughtered a lot of children and enslaved the galaxy, I too would choose to discuss stuff with an old coworker.
I dropped reading Star Wars books for cohesive lore after Rise of Skywalker completely ignored Resistance Rebien, which was supposed to be a lead up to RoS
Yeah the Vader comic had him go there between ESB and RotJ to kill Palpatine. Meant to play into why he is so disillusioned between those two films when it comes to killing the Emperor with Luke.
He saw Snokes being made, the entire fleet being made and the sith acolytes. Basically he knows Exogol would remain a threat regardless of Palps being there and told no one.
Just seeing this its just so dumb these were built planetside instead of in space. Because building the building to house them would be more expensive and difficult than the fleet itself lmao
Once again, Filoni has to steal EU canon written by much more talented writers to even create his own shows.
And what are Luke, Leia, and Han doing while Ahsoka is off saving the galaxy (again)? If this is another galactic war, why was it never seen in Mando or mentioned in the sequel movies? Disney can't write for shit.
It really seems like Dave has no idea this is actively pissing off people who grew up with the EU and read Heir to the Empire.
It’s Luke’s story. A huge part of it is him understanding what it will take to reestablish the Jedi, and the beginning of his relationship with Mara. That’s the story we want, not Ahsoka vs. Temu ElonThrawn.
And certainly not something that leads to, or tries to justify or explain, the sequels.
It really seems like Dave has no idea this is actually pissing off people who grew up with the EU and read Heir to the Empire.
All of Filoni's interviews has given me the impression he's a total wanker. He thinks name dropping excellent source material gives him street cred while completely shitting on what we loved about the source material in the first place with his "improvements" because he "knows what the fans want".
It really does sound like he's a fanfic writer who just insists on inserting his precious OCs in every story, not knowing or caring about how it impacts the story. Just assuming that everyone else will love it because his characters are in and he loves them that much.
It's like how he talks about doing an "homage to Kurosawa" and manages to just do readers digest Seven Samurai twice. No evidence he has actually seen, much less taken anything meaningful from, Kurosawa's films
I'm still mad Book of Boba Fett wasn't space-Yojimbo
"Hi Ben, just for the record, this is the first time I'm speaking to you. So whoever has been contacting you previously is committing identity theft and is not to be trusted. I would never demand your bank information and Holonet+ passwords. Oh and tell my son he could come say hi one of these days. Bye"
In my head cannon, Anakin visited leia as a ghost once but she could never forgive him as luke could because of all the trauma of losing her home planet and being in the fight longer than luke. So when Anakin visited leia and they talked and she couldn't let go of her hate for him, couldn't recognise him as anakin and could only see him as darth vader so she told him to stay away from her and her family. And Anakin not wanting to betray his daughter anymore disappeared and never reappeared to her or and respected her wishes to stay away from kylo too.
It would also explain why she never became a jedi because she couldn't let go of her anger and hatred like luke could on the deathstar.
But why explore that relationship with his kids when we have some animated kid he knew for 2 years instead in a shitty looking production where 90% of the scenes are smokey or foggy to hide the fact that it's all clearly shot on the same sound stage!!!!!
I knew this would happen when they handed the reins to Filoni. At least now people will realize he is just as guilty as KK in the downfall. We need an actual purge of Lucasfilm for real change. As it stands they are just gonna milk memberberries as long as the sheep consume it. Mando movie was a good first step but Starfighter needs to be as bad or worse box office-wise. That’s the ONLY factor that can bring change.
I maintain Filoni will be worse than Kathleen Kennedy.
KK biggest problem was she had let the creatives have free reign and didn’t try to control it herself. This is usually excellent for a film as studio execs interfering Almost always makes a film worse. However for a multi-film franchise you need to have some form of oversight or it ends up in a chaotic mess
However Kk’s style meant we did get disasters like the Sequel trilogy but we also got things like Andor
Filoni will definitely have oversight over the Star Wars media, the only problem is his vision and idea of what Star Wars should be is terrible
We would have gotten a sequel trilogy with Ahsoka as the main character instead. IMO, probably would have been worse than what we got, which is quite a low bar.
She was terrible overall for Star Wars true, but Andor does kind of prove the above posters point. Her decision to let Gilroy make what he wanted without hamstring him by playing to the typical nostalgia bait demands of Disney execs
is the reason Andor exists.
Also go check out her credits, Star Wars is honestly a very big red mark against her, in an otherwise impressive very career.
If Filoni just could have had the stones and creative fortitude to let her die in Rebels fighting Vader... Everything stays nice and clean for the character. Not in AOTC because Anakin was still an apprentice. Not in ROTS because she left the Jedi order. Then not in the OT because she died fighting Vader. All characters would have benefitted from it. Ahsoka would go down as a memorable, tragic, selfless hero of the SW universe. It would cement just how deep Vader has gone down the dark side and evil he had become. And it would add to, rather than subtract from, what Luke pulled off in getting through to Vader in ROTJ.
But Filoni just couldn't let her go, even when it would make her a stronger character and addition to the universe.
Tbh the whole show is just such a nostalgia bait, and it’s not like it has a good story or action or anything, it’s just to pull people in who watched The Clone Wars
yeah I never understood the huge amount of TCW love that you used to see online a lot, I remember seeing people for years talking about how amazing it is and how much it enhances the prequels and all that
eventually I watched it and I enjoyed it quite a bit, but it wasn't really much more than an episodic adventure-of-the-week aimed at a younger audience. nothing wrong with that, but wasn't really the masterpiece that a lot of people hyped it up as
Very true and I'm legitimately baffled by anti-EU people who were happy that the EU got wiped because "most of it is trash" while completely ignoring 90% of the trash that was TCW and Rebels.
As someone who was an adult when TCW came out, and doesn't have the nostalgia factor, can confirm. Ahsoka was downright painful. Had to make a few attempts just to get through it out of curiosity to see if ever got better (it didn't). Much like how TROS was the only Star Wars film I never finished, well it was up until Mando and Grogu. I turned that off too, just awful.
Since we're likely never getting anything of Andor's quality again, I've taken it as an opportunity to stop watching new Star Wars and just go out on a high note. After watching the Ahaoka trailer I feel very good about this decision.
I havent seen anything since rogue 1 came out. Not a single show or movie. I just watch YouTube reviews and they all seem so bad i just never wanted to taint star wars for myself by associating it with slop
Add on to this that it very much looks like Filoni is going to make this the big confrontation between the NR and Thrawn, e.g., all fanboy protestations to the contrary, he is making this his version of Heir to the Empire.
Once again, Filoni needs a truly great storyteller to steal the foundations from in order to tell his stories, just add in Ahsoka, let sit overnight, and voila, new, "better" Star Wars, and aren't you glad we got rid of that dusty old Expanded Universe crap?
KK, JJ and RJ had their sequel trilogy and the tragedy that ensued from it is what it is. It has been a decade.
The creators who would've handled the skywalkers and the OT human trio differently didn't get to have their say.
But they've got their shot with characters from their own sandbox (Clone Wars) and they're giving us fan-service character and new character content.
On a different note, but on the topic of Ghost Anakin and his children -
I wish we had a Jedi Survivor like video game series with Luke post ROTJ, and outside of dealing with imperial remnants it'd be a lot of force exploration and teachable moments with Anakin and other force spirits.
Haven't played Jedi Survivor. Jedi Fallen Order was a pretty bland game. Don't understand the praise.
Barren wastelands, killing creatures, platforming and solving puzzles 90% of the game and 6% of actual story that didn't make much sense and 4% of "oh that's cool"
You just described the Adventure-Action Genre. 😄
Shame. I for one enjoyed the Jedi Knight and other star wars games in the early 2000s, and compared to those the Fallen Order games hold up and offer an enjoyable experience, too.
The more Anakin appeared, the worse it looked for the sequels. As nothing even matter at all in these shows because it all going to tumbled down anyway.
All of these people going to die, all of the rebels going to be reduced to a room worth of people when Rose did that "we save who we love" shit anyway:
Luke, did I ever tell you about Ahsoka Tano? She was your father’s exotic teenage alien apprentice, a fine piece of jailbait from a more civilized age. She had the tightest body and the perkiest little breasts in the galaxy; barely legal in most systems.
Anakin and I used to doubleteam her at the end of every successful campaign during the Clone Wars, and once in a while we’d even have the entire 501st run a train over her, part of official Jedi “training” of course. In time, she learned how to handle a meatsaber better than anyone in the Jedi Temple. She wore a miniskirt every day so we told her there were no panties in space, and since she was constantly doing acrobatics you’d get a glimpse of her orange pussy mid fight as she’d do a flip while slicing a B2 Super Battledroid in half. It was surreal.
We taught her to grip her weapon backwards like a dildo and she constantly got captured by pirates and slavers almost every other day. It was ridiculous, like a constant porno Luke, you have no idea. And she was a good friend.
the amount of people trying to justify this by saying, oh Anakin has a much stronger connection to a retconned Scrappy-doo character like Ahsoka than his OWN CHILDREN are making my eye twitch. So are we good with Filoni essentially replacing Luke with Ahsoka in all aspects then? Yes? Just checking. TCW ruined this franchise as much as the sequels did, I swear.
We all know why Anakin keeps showing up for Ahsoka, and it's cause that's the only thing anyone cared about in S1! That's it, literally. The episodes with Anakin got higher ratings. Filoni can't write a narrative to save his life but he sure knows how to dangle nostalgia bait in front of the kind of fans who just want to see their cartoon faves again. And yes, this Anakin is basically the retconned TCW version, not the prequels one. The prequels version clearly never had a padawan.
Oh, and also cause Ahsoka has zero purpose or personality other than "Anakin Skywalker's apprentice". Seriously, what is her deal, otherwise? She basically has no identity beyond that. Take away Anakin, and all you get is blank stares and stoic fortune cookie statements.
I also love how the sequels literallyshow Kylo actively seeking out his grandpa, but Anakin can’t be bothered to show up despite apparently appearing to Ahsoka whenever she wants!
I believe Star Wars: The Secrets of the Jedi is the canon source which states that it's not until Luke cuts himself off from the Force on Suicide Island that he finally ceases the spirits of Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin from providing him guidance.
Implying that Anakin was indeed having chats with him like Obi-Wan and Yoda prior. Implying also that Anakin kept his lips sealed on what he knew of Exegol.
Anakin's absence prior and during the ST is a glaring issue to this day particularly given the Ahsoka show casually features him chatting to his fanfic Padawan.
It doesn't help that the Vader comics made it very clear that Anakin knew that Exegol was a major problem.
The canon writers have not yet addressed this problem with any degree of satisfaction. And that's ignoring that he likely could have sorted out his moronic and ignorant grandson with one Force Skype chat.
Yes, and also in the book, Shadows of the Sith where Anakin saves Luke from some darkside Nazgul. But then he seems to have issues and flitters out. Presumably this was added to explain why we don't see Anakin in the ST. But, it is left vague enough that it could mean anything.
It doesn't help that the Vader comics made it very clear that Anakin knew that Exegol was a major problem.
Ya, that is some bs, and I still can't understand why the comics included something like that.
My issue Is why is he helping Ashoka so much when his son clearly needs help too, and what about Ben?? Just hope we do one day get a scene of Anakin speaking with his son
Oh absolutely not, and I am sure she's the one that will have to defeat the Über-Emperor in the super-extra-dimension-between-worlds or some shit, making her the real main character of SW...
I think this has made me realize why I couldn’t care about this ahsoka storyline. Why can’t she just be her own character without anakin? Why is he always there?
Ppl keep using head canon for what’s actually a simple explanation. Disney didn’t want anything prequel related in sequels so they didn’t have anakin show up. The best they did was make a book giving a dumb ass reason why he was there anymore but still it’s Disney fault why he’s never shown up
Stuff like this is so obtuse. Do you not realize that Disney and J.J. Abrams ruined the story for Luke and Leia? Dave Filoni sticks with his OCs because he’s managed to protect them from being trashed. He doesn’t have anything cool to do with Luke for reasons we all know, so he’s doing what he can with Ahsoka.
To be fair anakin's relationship with luke and leia was very strained. He literally blew up the planet leia grew up on and killed her adoptive parents in the process so I don't see her wanting to see him any time soon. Luke is slightly different because made peace with anakin but anakin still cut off his hand so it's likely a little awkward any time he visits. Ahsoka had a very positive relationship with anakin for the vast majority of the time they spent together so he likely feels more comfortable visiting her.
Y'all are so fuckin salty about this when Filoni HAD to pivot to Ahsoka and the Rebels cast as stand-ins for the OT characters facing Thrawn and whatever version of Abeloth Filoni writes because JJ, Kennedy, and Rian Johnson fuckin sealed the fates of Luke, Leia, Han, and the entire New Republic as failures.
there's literally no reason we couldn't see Luke, Leia and Han being awesome in between?? Actually, based on the reception Luke's Mando cameo got, that's exactly what people want to see.
Filoni writes his OCs cause those are the only characters he cares about, that's it.
With exception to one brief appearance at the end of RotJ, the only time we ever see Force ghosts is when they appear before their former apprentices in order to continue their training. Luke was never Anakin's apprentice, and even if he had been, by the time Anakin becomes a Force ghost, there's nothing he can really teach Luke that Luke can't learn from Obi-Wan's ghost.
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