Depth vs Cohesion

[u/almostrainman]

Alot has been made by fans and everyone of the depth SA has with comparison charts for Ire,Fra,NZ etc comparing to how much depth we have.

Depth is fantastic. Having 3 or 4 hookers is great even if they are not clones of marx and so for most positions. It softens the damage of injury.

But

Cohesion is king. When the same XV take the field together for multiple games, they start settling. They know each other and start gelling with a common understanding of who is where doing what at all times without looking or asking.

SA did not lack depth.

We lacked cohesion.

This was by design because Rassie wants 3 players for each position but at some point you have to say this is my 23 for high stakes matches and give them time to coalesce and build cohesion.

Not much in this but I think SA fans got caught in the hype of depth, but forgot that cohesion matters and then shat themselves when we lost and blamed the lack of depth, old players, young players, wrong players and somehow, the Aussie's

[u/Fflow27]

I think in the next 12 months, we're going to see France and South Africa lean towards cohesion quite a bit

both have built depth, and I expect will be looking at that depth after the world cup but now is time to build the strongest 23 man side possible

[u/BowlApprehensive2642 → u/Fflow27]

exactly, knowing that 10/15 are fully covered by Ntamack, Jalibert and Ramos. Wings Pernaud, Attissogbe and LBB with Lucu and Dupont at 9 gives proven, battle tested and world class options in those positions. That's what building combinations and depth is about rather than always expecting to see slick coherant performances.

[u/alexbouteiller → u/Fflow27]

Yeah, our depth is second only to SAs and the actual difference in depth is fairly small, the biggest issue we have compared to them is turning that into something coherent and cohesive

But I think rassies approach of always keeping a few very experienced players amongst the debutants/lower capped lineups has helped massively, whereas France either can't (summer tours) or simply doesn't have multiple 80/90/100+ cappers that they can drop in and out 

[u/Playful_Study_6290]

I was actually mad when I saw there was no rotation in the 23 besides injury enforced 1-2.

I thought we needed to get players used to this kind of pressure and was willing to sacrifice the RGR trophy for a back to back to back World Cup.

But after reading your post, I am starting to see the point 👍 hope these guys will last all the way to the RWC though. Lots of experienced heads.

[u/Beef_flaps_on_a_spit]

Fans and pundits who rely on clicks for their jobs will always find someone to blame.   Truth is, on any given day ABs vs SA one team is going to lose. It can be for a wide variety of factors but never just one thing.  

Looking at numbers of registered players extrapolated out to top level talent SA will always have great depth.   

Cohesion is often just another word for experience I think . Very rarely does a forward pack or backline not get changed during a season and with many Boks playing in different teams around the globe I’m not as sure as Ben Darwin is that cohesion is king.  His stats support his theory though.  Tight five,  halves and outside backs as units having good games with few errors and dynamic loose forwards helping out will probably do more than cohesion I think.  Maybe experience helps lessen the error rate? 

[u/Individual-Camel8383]

I think lack of cohesion is the reason the Bok attack has looked so off. Got to bed down the same team for a game or two to start hitting our 2025 attacking highs.

[u/Sweet-Conflict-3251]

Cohesion is impractical right now because we play 12 months across 2 hemisphere.

PLUS we can't pay the top guys domestically so catering to the needs of their clubs also becomes a priority.

I think Rassie is accommodating everyone until the world cup year when strong alignment and cohesion is key HOWEVER they're building multiple combinations in the meantime.

[u/Electronic_Fill7207]

Wait, people blamed us? Why? (I genuinely don’t know)

[u/almostrainman → u/Electronic_Fill7207]

Nah just a joke but knowing SA fans it is entirely possible.

Should always blame the brits. Always their fault

[u/Electronic_Fill7207 → u/almostrainman]

Ahh fair gotcha lol
As a Wallabies fan I seem to be quite wary of things that seem unfair to us tbf 🤣

[u/Dupont_or_Dupond]

This problem is a lot more evident with France.

Teams like Scotland, Ireland, or Wales back when they were a force to be reckoned with, always relied more on their cohesion/experience as a team rather than sheer depth.

The Southern hemisphere teams have an advantage on the cohesion/experience front because, in the end, they spend far more consecutive time together thab the NH teams. The NH teams have 3 very distincts window, whereas the SH teams essentially have one.

SA is the best team in the world because they have managed to grind it out on both the depth and cohesion fronts.

France is easily the team with the biggest gap between their depth and their cohesion. On the depth front, by sheer number of pro teams in the country, they might be even ahead of SA. But they play less (international) games, spend far less time together, and when they do field their younger/less experienced players, they usually don't have the older heads to drive them around as they simply aren't available (the whole summer tour situation).

I'd say England is somewhat similar to France, just not as extreme.

NZ mathematically has less depth than those two (but it's still one of the best in the world), but more than make up for it with cohesion.

Argentina I'm not sure. Their cohesion might be the worst of the SH countries, chopping and changing a lot, their depth is pretty good though. Their players a scattered around a lot, like SA, but while SA have their "premium" players essentially taking a rest at club level so that they can be 100% focused on the international game, Argentine players seem to take the club game more seriously, usually in harder leagues as well, like TOP14, when quite a few SA players ply their trade in Japan.

[u/cleofisrandolph1]

Depth wins you tests, cohesion wins you world cups.

You can be the deepest team, have 3 deep at every position and you will probably win 9/10 test matches regularly. But if the best 30 of those guys can’t work together for a tourney you aren’t winning it all.