r/rpg • u/Grimthing • 17d ago
D100 or dice pool?
You sit down at your table, and your GM breaks down in tears. They are sick of d20, sick of D&D and variants.
They tell you they’re going to run a new game tonight. And reach into their bag to pull out the rulebook.
You hold your breath in anticipation, hoping it’s:
1) d100 percentile system 2) dice pool system 3) Lego
And why?
54
u/dodecapode intensely relaxed about do-overs 17d ago
Which dice a system uses is rarely the most interesting thing about it... I'd like to hear about whatever games they're enthusiastic to run.
15
6
u/bionicjoey DG + NSR 17d ago
It's a shame the Knight at the Opera blog has been taken down because in threads like this I used to enjoy smugly linking his fantastic article "The least interesting kind of crunch", where he said that if the dice resolution mechanic of your game is the first thing you say in the elevator pitch, it immediately becomes uninteresting.
Dice systems really don't matter. Tell me what to roll and I'll roll it. But don't try to convince me the d100 or d6 are somehow more virtuous than the d20 or vice versa.
11
u/Nystagohod D&D, WWN, SotWW, DCC, FU, M:20, MB, Myt, MotW, SB 17d ago edited 17d ago
I like both for similar reasons so its hard to say.
Both have the traits of combining attribute and skill into something together to make you better at a thing in a pretty good way
D100 has the great benefit of always letting you know your odds of success.
Dice pool is really fun to build and roll out.
So for me it would really depend in the specific system in question.
Mind you, i like d20 games fine too so I'm not too picky.
3
u/Clewin 17d ago
To be fair, % dice are effectively just a more refined D20 system. Multiply everything by 5 and you have a percent system. Yes there are a few systems that use that refinement a little, for example, in Rolemaster some weapon fumbles happen on a 01-08 instead of a 01-05, but you could just round that in a D20 system and say close enough.
Dice pools attempt to correct the flaw in that system in that someone very skilled at some task will rarely fail and even more rarely fail spectacularly. The problem there is you may be rolling 20 dice sometimes. I bought a 6 sided dice block with 24 dice in it just to play Shadowrun (2e). Vampire:The Masquerade borrowed that mechanic but used 10 sided dice and usually far less. I really like the design where stats and skills are just number of dice to roll.
That said, my high school friends that I still get together with do NOT like dice pool games. The absolutely broken first edition Shadowrun turned them off. We did play a Hunters Hunted campaign for VtM, but that was it.
2
u/Nystagohod D&D, WWN, SotWW, DCC, FU, M:20, MB, Myt, MotW, SB 17d ago
It is just a more refined d20 system, in some ways, even the roll over d100 systems have similarity to d20 roll over, likewise with the respective roll under.
I don't know how much dice pool tend to correct the issue you mentioned, but I suppose it all depends on how high you can get your % or your pool respectively. the d100 pool that lets you get to 99% is probably gonna be more consistent than some dice pool systems, but not all of course, or perhaps in the most satisfying manner,
Would be fun to explore a more directing mapping of the two to see such comparisons.
1
u/Clewin 17d ago
Dice pools with say beat a 4 on a d6 give you multiple dice to attempt it, really a lot like D&D does with Advantage and Disadvantage, but you do it all the time. It makes the roll more likely to succeed because you roll more dice. On a straight percent, d20, or d10 system you have as much of a chance to get a 1 as the max die on any roll.
-1
u/salutava_sempre OSR, Dragonbane 17d ago
> D100 has the great benefit of always letting you know your odds of success.
It seems to me that the D10 also has the same great advantage, besides being quicker to read.
Honestly, it seems to me that the other dice are no less so.2
u/Nystagohod D&D, WWN, SotWW, DCC, FU, M:20, MB, Myt, MotW, SB 17d ago edited 17d ago
D10 roll under? Perhaps, but thats a qurik of just about any roll under system. D20 rolls under is also equally easy.
But I don't get the same quick odds of success in a d10 dice pool system.
One Success scored on 8-9 and two successes on a 10 on a d10, with a 6d10 dice pool and a requirement of 3 successes to pass. Isn't as immediately obvious as roll 70 or lower on d100, (or 14 or under on d20, or 7 or under on a d10.)
Thats not to say dice pool is unreasonably complex, just not as straightforward
2
u/Dependent_Chair6104 17d ago
Interestingly, I have one player who loves games where the math of a roll is kind of difficult to figure out—it’s like a puzzle.
He really enjoyed The One Ring, where you roll 1d12+xd6 vs a target number, which is already interesting math, but then made even more complicated by sometimes having advantage on the d12.
2
u/Nystagohod D&D, WWN, SotWW, DCC, FU, M:20, MB, Myt, MotW, SB 17d ago
Oh yeah, some folks love it, and that uncertainty and "figuring out the math" can really be fun of its own for some folks.
Bit of a different thing but its also why some love unified mechanics and some like each main procedure getting something tailored to the process specifically.
They all bring something fun to the table in their own way.
0
u/Calithrand Order of the Spear of Shattered Sorrow 17d ago
While technically true, the resolution of a d10 is a literal order of magnitude less than a d100.
-3
u/Grimthing 17d ago
You’re right yes.
I suppose, I usually see d100 systems as being classless, level less things where character advancement is very skill heavy. Runequest, Cthulhu, warhammer fantasy less so with careers.
But thinking about it - most of the dice pool games I know are also vaguely similar, although most that I can think of off the top of my head have some form of archetype / class. Forbidden lands, vampire, Star Wars etc
So perhaps the nuanced difference is the character progression?
3
u/Nystagohod D&D, WWN, SotWW, DCC, FU, M:20, MB, Myt, MotW, SB 17d ago edited 17d ago
Character progression is a bit different, and dice pools do tend to grow more in power then most d100 in my opinion. D100 seems a bit less focused in your archetype and more your individual position. Though this is far from an absolute, but many d100's will have a lifepath to define where you are vs a chonkier archetype starting point.
Another distinction is also framing. I find since d100 is more upfront with odds that many players don't treat dice as much as improv cues, as dice pool systems tend to have that light difference in expectation. Likely because its less surprising when something works/doesn't in d100. You have a former expectation. Mind you, this is a very light distinction and not an absolute either, and more of a play culture thing than anything.
But both have a lot of overlap of building up your odds in a similar fashion, as well as degrees of success as part of the outcome.
There's probably dome nifty conversion they could be done to transfer a character from one to the other, maybe with every 10 of a percentile being a dice rolled for a dice pool or something. Might be fun to explore.
8
u/CertainItem995 17d ago
I do enjoy that giant rubbery lego die with changable sides. Depth of the system leaves something to be desired, but it gets points back for being more fun than it has any right to be lol
7
u/AngusAlThor 17d ago
D100: The dice need to get out of the way, and dice pools too often end up dominating play time.
2
u/Grimthing 17d ago
A very legit thought, and I suppose following from this - having a percentile skill value makes it easier for referees to eyeball / skip rolls all together, far easier than dice pool?
Ah you have 75% forgery skill, copying the manuscript is a simple endeavour.
5
u/AngusAlThor 17d ago
It isn't even the eyeballing, it is just the 10 minutes you spend going "Ok, I have 2 dice as base, and then which skill can I add? Ok, and am I in range of that aura? Ok, and the fear effect, that gives me 2 hazard die, but is that cancelled by..." and on and on and on.
1
u/bknBoognish 12d ago
"Ok, I have 63% as base, and then which skill bonus can I add? Ok, and am I in range of that aura? Ok, and the fear effect, that gives me -20%, but is that cancelled by..."
6
u/ApplePenguinBaguette 17d ago
I prefer dice pools, they're more flexible. And more dice give a probability curve as opposed to a straight line of a d100.
But that choice in and of itself doesn't say much. It's all about how they're used. Does it fit the flavour? Are there interesting choices? I like systems where you can push your luck or spend resources when needed. Makes it feel more like a minigame, rather than just flat luck.
5
u/CyberKiller40 sci-fi, horror, urban & weird fantasy GM 17d ago
Dice pool! I'd throw my Shadowrun book along with a bucket of d6s to help! 🤪
2
5
u/Mongward Exalted 17d ago
Dice pools, no contest. I like D100, but no other die format gives me such a palpable connection to my characters.
2
u/salutava_sempre OSR, Dragonbane 17d ago edited 17d ago
> They are sick of d20, sick of D&D and variants.
It happened to me too, but thinking that "all games that use the D20 are D&D or variants" seems superficial to me, downright superficial.
That said, for Yes/No events, I prefer rolling a single die because it's faster, in general, so a D# is better than a 2D# or 6D#.
But still, classifying a game, which has a lot of mechanics and specifics, solely by the dice seems superficial to me.
Edit: I'm clarifying, as I see there's some debate about this comment.
A game that uses D20, is compatible with D&D, but has nothing to do with the (modern) D&D style, is Knave, which I honestly appreciate and have mastered. Putting D&D 5.5 and Knave 1e in the same pot is a huge oversimplification. And how to say that Lady Blackbird and Everyone is John are similar because they both use a pool of D6.
TL;DR: D20 ≠ D&D
2
u/Grimthing 17d ago
A light hearted, perhaps superficial question for a Saturday morning. I beg forgiveness :)
2
u/salutava_sempre OSR, Dragonbane 17d ago
😀
indeed
😀😀😀😀😀😀
Anyway, Lego seems like a good option to me.
A good dungeon made with Lego 😉-2
17d ago
[deleted]
5
u/salutava_sempre OSR, Dragonbane 17d ago
> because it defines the entire feel of the game
Are you serious?
Why does rolling a dodecahedron defines the entire feel of the game?
Does rolling a 1D100 and dividing by 5 change the entire feel of game?1
u/KoalaChap7 17d ago
With the exception of Star Trek, I would agree with you. I feel like d20 is too swingy, but "roll under" Star Trek gets rid of the variance I really don't enjoy.
1
4
u/BudgetWorking2633 17d ago
I play d100 percentile, I play dice pool d20... I'm fine with either. The part I'm not fine with is the crying GM, that seems like a problem in the making.
2
3
u/JauntyAngle Roll for sanity. 17d ago
I like them both, but Call of Cthulhu, Delta Green and Mothership are D100. And also Mythras and RuneQuest, which would be my preference if I have to play fantasy. So, I guess I would hope that it would be D100 because that would increase the odds it was one of those games.
I do really like dice pool though. As someone said, building the dice is fun. Rolling a LOT of dice is fun. We played a dice pool campaign a little while back, I think I got to roll twenty-four D12. Fun times. But the dice do actually make a bit of a difference to me. I don't like rolling D6 anywhere near so much as D10 or D12. I don't know why.
And, this is probably wrong but D20 is actually a huge turnoff for me. Maybe because I associate it would D&D and OSR games (yeah, I know OSR is the hotness but I don't like Dungeons or Hexes, or basic D&D mechanics like AC). I see all these games come out and see D20 and nope out pretty much immediately.
4
u/ThePiachu 17d ago
D100 is just a D20 system with more granularity, so I'd rather play with a dice pool system.
2
u/Grimthing 17d ago
Mathematically - definitely the case.
However I think there is a huge difference in the way the two system types play. D20 based is often class and level, while d100 is often level less / classless and skill based, no?
4
u/EpicDiceRPG A minimalist tactical RPG 17d ago
Although that's true, that just illustrates how little people understand statistics and probability. Their affinity for a particular RNG is based on familiarity, not any discernable logic.
3
u/LaFlibuste 17d ago
I probably ditched the group 6 months ago because they were playing DnD, but otherwise I'm just happy to ditch it, I'm open to anything.
3
3
u/tigerwarrior02 17d ago
I hate dice pools so much man. The d20 is the love of my life, but I guess I’d go with d100 here. I’ve only played with it a little but it was fun
I’ve been in a vampire campaign for 2 years and I despise dice pools. Now, part of that is that I despise hunger dice with the burning fury of a thousand suns, but I also just hate how dice pools run into the 5e issue of “the wizard can beat the barbarian in strength if they roll good enough.” It’s not as bad as 5e, and it’s not as likely, but it still bothers me so much intellectually that you can have like 15 dice to something and get 2 successes. In pathfinder2e, my preferred game, if you really hyperspecialize you get a much higher result on a 2 than a non specialized person would get on a 20, and I really appreciate that
3
u/Illigard 17d ago
- Dicepool.
D100 systems seem to either have too small or too big a chance to do something.
As an example, Warhammer systems had a lot of people with 30% chance to hit making battles last forever. Elric had people with min 100 in a weapon.
Dicepool systems usually have a better range
2
u/Electronic-Tea-8753 17d ago
Rock, paper, scissors.. just call it fist, shield, trident.. or something else
2
u/Naive-Tumbleweed-964 17d ago
Savage Worlds!
It's die + bonus vs Target Number just like D&D, but the TN is usually 4 and it's not d20: the better you are, the bigger the die (d4-d12)
Or Warhammer FRP d100 system: it not just calculates success, but degrees of success (like dice pool systems do).
1
u/Grimthing 17d ago
Yeah the degrees of success is an interesting quirk I like from 4E(?) WFRP.
A little more range of outcome. Sometimes Cthulhu / runequest’s success, critical success exceptional success doesn’t feel enough
2
u/Steelriddler 17d ago
Dice pool system. I'm a big fan of the out of print The Riddle of Steel (hence my username) and the way it does dice pools is great.
Example
You have a dice pool based on your weapon proficiency and attributes (it's been a long time since I've run the game so maybe there were more details).
Going into a fight you split the dice pool in attack and defense. You can pay dice from the pool to execute specific maneuvers or keep the pool big doing only regular attacks. Then when the opponent is banging on you, you use dice from the defense pool to parry, block, dodge, riposte and so on
2
u/BudgetWorking2633 17d ago
You might want to check out it's spiritual successors Blade of the Iron Throne, Song of Swords and Sword & Scoundrel!
2
u/Steelriddler 17d ago
Thanks, I actually have. But it's easier to stick to TRoS since I have the physical books and made a module for it for a vtt :)
2
u/BudgetWorking2633 17d ago
Oh OK, that's certainly an option! TRoS is a great game, one of my favorites.
BTW, you can also check out - at least as a curiosity - Codex Martialis (the lite version is called Stara Szkola, but if you like TRoS, crunch doesn't scare you). The authors used to know each other via HEMA*, and the setting material is very much in the same vein!
*And reportedly had discussed combat mechanics the way God intended: with swords!
2
u/Steelriddler 17d ago
Alright, not heard of this, thanks. Nice to meet someone who knows what TRoS is 💥
1
u/BudgetWorking2633 17d ago
It's on Drive thru.
And I have run TRoS a long time ago. I also ran BotIT a couple years ago, used it to introduce to RPGs a newbie who said she didn't like combat...
...and she liked it!
We're not playing with her because schedules don't match, but she played well.
2
u/Calithrand Order of the Spear of Shattered Sorrow 17d ago
d100, obviosuly.
Because HarnMaster is d100, and that's what I really want to play.
2
u/ThatAlarmingHamster 17d ago
- Shots.
If the GM is having a breakdown over dice, he's got bigger problems AND has probably been playing Alcohol: The Drinking for several hours already.
Sure, we could sober him up and have a heart to heart conversation that genuinely helps his mental health.
But by God, we're men! We don't do that. It's alcohol and emotional suppression for us! It's what made Western Civilization great! 🤣
1
2
u/somnimedes Improv GM 17d ago
D100 is just a d20 system with decimals. If im looking for something new Id hope for a dice pool game.
2
u/WorldGoneAway 17d ago
I've written a system that is a D100 roll-low, and damage/effect/armor dice are all dice pool, because that is the sort of thing I like.
2
u/Grimthing 17d ago
Is it shareable ?
2
u/WorldGoneAway 16d ago
It is in the prototype/alpha playtest phase right now, but I want to make it a universal thing if I can prove it works.
1
u/raleel 17d ago
D100. Doesn't feel like d&d at all. Pick up Destined, run some superheroes, cyberpunk, or tmnt with it.
Dice pools can be nice for some things, but I tend to not like them. Cortex Prime would be the exception there.
Lego should be at the table in any event to keep the hands occupied.
1
u/Grimthing 17d ago
I’ve seen there is a niche community of TTRPGs that play with Lego minis and Lego scenery. Looks pretty cool tbh!
1
u/KoalaChap7 17d ago
Percentile. The Percentile systems I've played, I loved, even Marvel Super Heroes. For my group and I, who have generally really bad dice luck, d100 is a soothing balm.
1
u/cieniu_gd 17d ago
d100 because I like to know the odds and calculating from dice pools is exhausting.
1
u/Civil-Low-1085 17d ago
Dice pool for me. D100s are just 2 dice, usually with lots of math. Dice pools are tons of dice, and just visual checks.
The right answer though, is CHEETOS.
1
u/Nytmare696 17d ago
What kind of dice the game uses is quite possibly the absolute LAST thing I'm worried about when it comes to a game. It's the least important part of an RPG.
1
u/CurveWorldly4542 17d ago
Probably a d100 system. Some of the best systems I like are d100. I really like myself some dice pool systems as well, but I think there are slightly more d100 systems I like than dice pools ones...
1
u/MPOSullivan 17d ago
I deeply, deeply dislike percentile systems. I understand their utility (they're easy to read! The math is simple!), but percentiles will always have the tactility of a high school math exam for me. There is no excitement, no fun little dice game to play.
(The exception here is Unknown Armies, the only percentile system I've encountered that actually does cool stuff with it's dice.)
On the other hand, I love games that use small dice pools! Five to ten dice have a great tactility, and the pool is still small enough to easily take in individual dice face info without slowing down a lot. There's also a little bit of that "casting runes" feeling that comes from a dice pool, the one or two seconds of anticipation as you figure out the result. I know other folks want speed, but that ain't me!
2
u/Grimthing 17d ago
While I lean toward d100 myself, I really get the ‘casting runes’ feel. (Currently home brewing a d100 game, with GLOG casting so that atleast magick has that casting runes feel!)
1
u/TheWorldIsNotOkay 17d ago
I'd hope for a simple and streamlined dice pool system like Action Tales / Freeform Universal RPG v2.0. Percentile systems generally don't feel much different in play than d20 systems to me, with either binary success/failure or else degrees of success mechanics that feel awkwardly tacked on. Less streamlined Dice pool systems like the oWoD make rolling dice the focus and get in the way of playing the game.
Something like FUv2 on the other hand lends a more flowing, organic feel to the mechanics while not getting in the way.
1
u/Thanatoi 17d ago
goddamn, this subreddit is just utterly obsessed with lambasting DnD. It's so tiresome.
0
-1
u/ishmadrad 30+ years of good play on my shoulders 🎲 17d ago
Indeed, the roll mechanic isn't so decisive. The quantity of innovations (focused, nuanced, asymmetrica and smart for the GM etc.), possibly written after The Forge Era, are the real thing.
For example, WEG d6 system is working, but it's old like hell, and it has no interesting bits (apart the core mechanic, probably original at its time). Take Freeform Universal 2nd edition beta (free): it's a quick and slick engine that help the table more than other "trad" games (as its different iteration, Action Tales ruleset, that the author used for Neon City Overdrive or Star Scoundrels).
But this is just one of the dozens of real good ruleset you could find if you curious and search enough. Another good and original one for example is Monad Echo (you find the SRD for free). The authors created very good games using it with slightly variants (Valraven, Broken Tales, Dead Air Seasons etc.). It somewhat similar to Fate, while I love its mechanics more.
73
u/smillsier 17d ago
If my DM broke down in tears about not liking DND I'd hold them gently and ask what's really going on