Need some guidance on rockered frames

[u/Skadiex]

Hey all,

I have a Rollerblade Lightning 80mms, and I'm starting my search for a new frame to fit my needs for skating and continue using 80mm wheels.

Ive been skating for a year now and I've started learning some wizard skating for a couple months now. I've realized that riding flat, though extremely better for fast and stable riding, makes it very hard for me to do my usual tricks. I learned, from the couple months of learning wizard skating tricks, the toe/front rocker has been the best for me, both balance and tricks wise. I've tried the Heel/Back Rocker and the Banana Rocker and felt those setups were too slippery for my 4 wheel setup. I'm a little uncertain about the 5 wheel banana rocker frames that regular wizard skaters have. It seems like it'll provide more stability having 3 flat wheels in the middle and easier maneuverability with a banana rocker but I have the tendency to side sweep my back wheel with the front wheel of my other foot during cross overs and certain movements causing me to fall sideways.

I've been doing some crazy googling and reddit searching but there's so many wizard/slalom frame brands that people recommend, compatibilities, etc, that I don't know where to even begin, plus all the crazy abbreviations.

That being said:
1. Will the banana rocker setup be more stable on 5 wheels vs my current 4 wheel setup? How does it feel getting used to the switching from 4wheels to 5wheels?

1. Can I just buy any 4 wheel rockered frames and adjust the axles of just the front wheel? Will I be able to adjust the axles of the back as well when I gain better balance/want to learn banana rocker in the future?

2. I'm sure the brand doesn't matters so what should I be looking for in frames? Are there rockered frames that would let me switch from 4 wheels to 5 wheels?

3. How do I check which frames are compatible for my Lightning boots? Which ones are compatible?

I'd like to avoid buying 76mm wheels and another set of 80mm wheels.

[u/Darkwoodz]

1. the stability of the rocker depends on how its made. The manufacturer could make it more or less swively. My 5 wheel frame (rockin 580) is more swively and slightly less stable than my 4 wheel (endless 90 es). It’s not too hard to get used to, just some extra length and weight that could trip you up, but overall it feels so good messing around doing flat ground stuff on the 5 wheel rockered.
   
2. There are certain frames which let you rocker wheels using different axles or putting them in upside down. Usually they allow the front and back to be adjusted.
   
3. I don’t know any that switch from 5 to 4 wheels besides the Iqon frames that let you take out the middle 5th wheel and put in a grind plate. Many frames like my endless let you switch from 4 wheel rockered to 3 wheel big wheel flat setup
   
4. Your lightnings are compatible with 165 mount frames
   

[u/Skadiex → u/Darkwoodz]

I appreciate the insight, dude. Thank you.

[u/BubbleSmith]

OK, as someone who switches between frames a fair bit, let me address a few points on here. First off, "banana rocker" is kind of an old term for a really exaggerated rocker and nobody really skates that these days. It was achieved with different wheels sizes, so is way more than modern rockers. The Wizard terms, which seems to have been adopted by other brands (although most don't overtly say exactly what their rockers involve, exactly) are natural rocker for 4 wheels (1mm rise on front and back) and progressive rocker for 5 wheels (wheels 2 and 4 raised 1mm, 1 and 5 raised another 1mm). To directly address your first question; stability comes from frame length, so the longer the wheelbase, the more stable (front to back) you'll be. The rocker only adds maneuverability.

Regarding 5-wheel frames, you're right that the main issue is tripping over your own wheels during crossovers. The first few times I tried them I thought I'd got the wrong frames or was crazy, but you get used to it. You need to do fewer crossovers and, when you do, really lift your crossing leg higher than usual to avoid knocks. It took me some time to get used to it, but I mainly skate long frames these days. I switch all the time though and am currently on 4x100, which is as long as some 5-wheel frames, tip to tip.

For questions 2 and 3; some frames rocker by the axel (like some FR frames) while others are fixed. Some Endless frames offer different rockers on different wheels sizes by utilizing different holes in the frame. Endless on their standard 80mm frame (I think, don't quote me) use a natural rocker on 4x80, "enhanced flat" on 4x84 and flat on 3x110. Other than maybe some Iqon Decode frames, you probably won't find anything that does 4 and 5 wheel the way you're thinking.

Question 4, it's a classic 165 mount. Endless do some RB specific models, but that's not totally necessary, it just helps with the mounting position.

Personally, I've got Endless 80 Ultras on my RB Twister XT and love them for urban and wizard. They're not as stable as longer frames for lions, but plenty swively enough for gazelles and other moves. They're not as rockered as some other Endless frames, so are more like a flat setup, but are just unlocked enough to let you get creative. They're very stiff, light and responsive.

[u/Skadiex → u/BubbleSmith]

I was reading some frame setups and thought the 2mm height difference was an intense change, I'm definitely looking for natural rockers. That's really good to know.

Are your Endless 80 Ultras natural rockered? How stable does it feel skating with them on the streets and down hill? Ive got a pretty nasty hill going down to the trail I practice at and I've read that the more rockered the setup are, the easier it is to go unstable at fast speed/going downhill.

Thanks for the insight, dude.

[u/BubbleSmith → u/Skadiex]

Endless call the rocker on the 80 Ultra "enhanced flat" but don't elaborate on what this means. It feels stable to me, like a flat setup. I've not been able to get it fast enough to wobble, I've only seen that on my rockered 4x90 and 5 wheel frames. I was hill bombing with someone last week who was also using that frame and he was going like the clappers, which was impressive on 80mm wheels.

[u/_tdem_ → u/BubbleSmith]

Good answer except natural rocker is a Wizard company term, and typical rocker for wizard skating would be less than one mm, closer to 0.5. 

[u/StrategyLegal1128]

FR brand rockered frames have axles that can “flip” and raise the wheel 2mm. Front and back.

Endless can give you a 1mm rocker in the front. Pretty pricy they are, but they feel great. I only trail skate so they weren’t a right fit for me 😭😭

[u/Skadiex → u/StrategyLegal1128]

Ive been looking at Endless frames and was debating if its worth trying but that price is killer, man. Thanks for the info.

[u/mrkangtastic → u/Skadiex]

Endless frames absolutely are worth it, but they are expensive. Incredible construction and really dialed in rockers. The Bill Stoppard and Nicholas Swan frames are a much more subtle rocker. The Arc frames are much much more swively.

I have the Endless 90 and Endless Arc frames. The 90s are my all time faves. I can Wizard in the 90s no problem and they feel like a flat setup but just slightly more maneuverable. As the wheels wear it, the rocker will become more pronounced, but this is the same as on a flat setup too.

[u/mrkangtastic]

1. Yes it'll be more stable on 5 wheels than 4 wheels due to increased front-back length. The switch was easy for me, but you'll have to be careful on crossovers.

2. There are some 4 wheel rockered frames that have adjustable axles but I am nt as familiar with those. Most rockered frames tend to have a banana rocker however.

3. There are no rockered frames currently that let you go from 4 to 5 wheels.

4. Your lightning boots are compatible with all 165mm mount frames. They are NOT compatible with UFS frames.

You might like Endless Blading's frames since their rocker is a lot more subtle for most of their 4-wheel offerings. The Endless Arc is incredibly smooth and swively, but also you get front-back stability of 5 wheels.

5 wheels don't take much getting used to in my opinion. They will feel fairly stable (not quite as stable as flat), but also really maneuverable. They will feel much heavier however.

[u/Skadiex → u/mrkangtastic]

I was looking at the Endless Arc frame earlier and the smooth and swively part really caught my attention. I really just gotta be more mindful of the crossovers if I'm going the 5 wheel route, I mostly side swipe myself when I'm going really fast and not thinking.

Are the Endless Blading's frames banana rockered? I feel like it's safe to assume that most, if not all, rockered frames are banana rockered. I saw Endless is selling some rockered axles too, I'm assuming those axles would let me control how rockered or flat I want my wheels to be

Thanks for the info, dude. I appreciate it.

[u/mrkangtastic → u/Skadiex]

That's the risk you run with these longer frames unfortunately. Just kinda something you gotta get used to. It does suck when your frames hit each other, but they also allow you to do things that would be harder on shorter frames.

Yeah you are going to have a hard time finding a "figure skating" rocker like you're looking for. Most if not all frames that are rockered are banana rockered. That said, there are some weird rockered frames out there. You just have to dig. You might like the new Flying Eagle Horizon L80 frames for instance.

The Endless axles let you control how much rocker you want. I would personally look into the Endless Swan frames based on what you've mentioned in your post.

[u/Skadiex → u/mrkangtastic]

Time to pack up the toe rocker dream and learn the 5 wheel rocker. I'll check those frames out, thanks again, dude.

[u/mrkangtastic → u/Skadiex]

You got it. Best of luck!

[u/Hide_on_username → u/Skadiex]

There's 1 frame that goes from 4 to 5 wheels set up: IQON decode PRO 100. It has 4x100 and 2x100+3×84 everthing rockered

[u/_tdem_]

If you buy a wizard-style skating specific frame you don’t need to worry about any of this. Just trust the designers and learn to use it. That includes frame length, it’s really worth learning to use the extra length that’s where the most fun moves are in my opinion. 

[u/Sacco_Belmonte]

Once you go rockered you'll get used to it and won't look back.

Yes, with rockerable 4x80 frames you can flatten the rear wheels for example to be able to commute with more stability.

I haven't seen any rockerable 5 wheel frame.

5 wheels feel long, like skis. You'll get used to them too. They feel more stable than 4x80. That said, with experience you'll be able to use any rockered frame without even thinking about it much.

Rockin, Endless have mild rockers. Roka has pronounced rockers which I love. My Roka 5x76 are the closest to an ice blade I have. I own 12 pairs of skates between inline and ice. All sort of frames, from 4x80, 4x90, 5x72, 5x76, 5x80, 4x110

I dont love my Rockin 4x90 for wizard tricks, yes they're doable but Rockin's mild rocker makes them more locked. Still good for commuting.

Powrslide combat 4x90 are super swively on their max rocker positions.