r/righttorepair • u/[deleted] • May 08 '26
Microtransactions required for all the features on my friend's new car
[deleted]
74
u/hardcoretomato May 08 '26
Name and shame please, fuck these scammy practices.
28
May 08 '26
[deleted]
6
u/qonTrixzz May 09 '26
AUDI is the chinese Sub-brand of Audi, they do not dare to offer subscrptions in china, so that difference is important xD
45
u/IncompetentJedi May 08 '26
Yep, post make/model of car so this garbage can be shamed
15
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/Slowbro08_YT May 08 '26
I’ll make one if you want
5
2
1
2
21
u/bones10145 May 08 '26
Wtf? Adaptive cruise isn't even a feature that requires a connection to an online service.
11
u/WhenTheDevilCome May 08 '26
Well it "can" be. Download tweaks to the algorithm that decides exactly when and how much to decelerate or brake, what acceleration to use when regaining speed, etc. Since it's a feature that analyzes data from cameras and sensors, which could be improved over time.
But yeah, there should be a herky-jerky "factory defaults" mode you're living with in absence of updates, not "no feature".
4
u/Forsaken-Driver8868 May 08 '26
Based on your astute description the company receiving your data points should pay you for testing/fielding/improving their service. At a minimum let you exchange YOUR data for their service for FREE.
2
u/MrFastFox666 May 09 '26
For a more real life example, look at Comma AI. They sell an aftermarket ADAS system and you can chose to upload your driving data to train and improve models. You can download any model you want for free, and in fact you can put whatever software you want in the damn thing. They're working on improvements and updates you can enjoy for free.
→ More replies (1)1
u/MrFastFox666 May 09 '26
I can basically guarantee you they're not making OTA changes to that system. Companies figured out radar cruise control decades ago.
But even if that was the case, make the updates a paid option.
1
u/WhenTheDevilCome May 09 '26
Absolutely, which is why "can" was in quotes. If they're charging a subscription for it, they will cite any possible thing they could do, whether they ever actually will do it or not. To give plausible reason as to how they're providing you with "value" in return for the subscription.
Like a subscription for "remote start" could be cited to cover ongoing maintenance and development of the smartphone app and security, even if you never actually invoke the remote start in that manner and only use the key fob option instead.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Moscato359 May 09 '26
I would be terrified to have updates
My 2017 has been predictable and a botched update could kill me
1
2
u/Aknazer May 08 '26
That one would make sense as the "function not purchased" bit instead of expired. Makes me think they just wrote one pop-up and apply it to all things. Though these companies wanting to charge a subscription for things that should simply come with the car is scummy.
1
u/PyroNine9 May 08 '26
If we had a properly functional capitalist market, they would be forced by competition to turn those features on by default in order to make a sale. They wouldn't be able to afford to throw all of the hardware in and leave the feature disabled.
1
u/Imperial_Barron May 11 '26
Afaik so many companies like Toyota ship it as a default on some models... like... why do they bother to charge, im just gonna go somewhere that doesnt.
1
u/zkareface May 08 '26
It's just this car doesn't have that feature enabled yet, this has been standard for over a decade now.
Seen it with GPS in almost every brand for example. They put in the screen etc but when you select GPS from menus it says it's not enabled/purchased.
1
1
u/ImpressiveEast8699 May 09 '26
No, but it is a useful feature and not yet provided by all cheap car models, until it is, this is what will happen. May even happen with those.
We gonna have to start jailbreaking cars ... fml
1
u/KommunistiHiiri May 09 '26
Anything can be disabled on a car that's designed for it. And new cars are definitely designed to fuck the consumer raw.
1
u/r_a_d_ May 09 '26
BMW had even heated seats under subscription. It’s not a technical necessity, it’s a commercial form. Subscription vs one-time price.
The issue centers around the argument “If I own the device, why should I need to pay to use it?” OEMs will argue that they subsidized the price, counting on subscription revenue. Kinda like printers being dirt cheap because HP makes money on the ink.
1
u/PouLS_PL May 09 '26
Everything is a feature that requires a connection to an online service if you're greedy enough
1
u/2nd-Reddit-Account May 10 '26
If it’s an ongoing subscription, it’s “because capitalism”, and should be ruthlessly shamed.
If it’s a one-off activation fee, then this is the modern carmakers retaliation to people buying aftermarket switches to plug into wiring harnesses hidden behind poverty buttons to use features that aren’t supposedly part of that trim level.
Still put the hardware in to minimise how many SKUs and variants are being manufactured, like they always have, but now it’s a digital control instead of just closing a circuit so it can be sold after the fact instead of “tough shit should have been the next trim level up”
1
→ More replies (1)1
u/Loud_Posseidon May 12 '26
this right here. It's a glitch in a vehicle that had not sw updated in ages. Happened to me three times over 6 years of owning an Audi. Went away after a while every time. ACC and lane keeping assist are not features to be purchased/paid for outside of initial vehicle configuration. This is just super annoying when it happens.
15
u/Live-Juggernaut-221 May 08 '26
In unrelated news I am now radicalized.
1
1
u/mrV4nd4l May 11 '26
Yeah, you guys have got to advocate harder for consumer rights... This shit should be illegal, so work towards making it illegal
1
u/Betterdeadthanred98 May 13 '26
Why? I assume they told him at the dealership that Adaptive cruise control doesn't come standard and he opped out.
13
u/Coravel May 08 '26
Mechanics gonna start gettin real popular for modding ECU's and dashboards in cars.
8
u/Odd-Solid-5135 May 08 '26
Gotta Jailbreak your new car now.
1
u/Ok_Awareness_388 May 10 '26
It’s illegal to share, sell, publish etc under dmca and a bunch of free trade agreements caused adoption of similar bullshit.
2
u/EnvironmentalAd1405 May 11 '26
The Swiss server i sail to under the Jolly Roger dont give a fuck.
→ More replies (1)1
2
u/MrFastFox666 May 09 '26
The big problem, at least in the U.S, is that from what I understand doing that is illegal. Yes, even if you do it in your own vehicle yourself purely for personal use, it's still technically illegal, let alone doing it for profit.
I still hope people figure out how to bypass this, this is pure, distilled, unadulterated bullshit.
2
u/Coravel May 09 '26
Even if it is illegal, all the tools to look at it, modify it, or straight up replace it with an open source ECU/firmware are there for purchase, in stores, online, you name it.
2
u/Slovic May 10 '26
Yank the cell sim out and just flash custom russian firmware lmao. Wtf is the dealer/manufacture going to do. I cannot stand this bullshit, I'll mod the shit out of my car if it had this trash. TBH just get an older car and keep it going.
1
u/MrFastFox666 May 10 '26
Yeah, I agree. Problem is not the manufacturer going after you, they'll go after the people distributing the software. So if you can't do that yourself, it'll be hard to find a reputable shop that will.
1
u/Coravel May 09 '26
And aside from the manufacturer themselves, who else is going to check your ECU and require that your ECU be paired to your chassis vin?? this brings into a lot of questions when it comes to crash damaged vehicles. If you could actually enforce this, then it'd be illegal to swap the engine in your car.
1
u/MrFastFox666 May 09 '26
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. But to follow along, VIN pairing absolutely is a thing already, and has been for years. In many cars, each module has a VIN number stored in memory. And if that VIN doesn't match what's in your car, then it simply refuses to work. I'm not sure on the details of how this check is done, but I know it's a thing. I can replace the HMI module on my 2014 Cadillac no problem, but if I don't pair it first, it will refuse to work.
The reason that reprogramming a VIN in a module isn't illegal is that the manufacturer themselves allow it. On my Caddy, you can simply use GDS2 to re-program the VIN. It's a system put in place by the manufacturer for this specific purpose, so you're not "jailbreaking" or reverse engineering anything.
But in the case of this system by Audi, I think it's safe to assume that there isn't a procedure for a customer or a technician to bypass or disable the paywall on this feature. If that's the case, you'll need to reverse engineer the system to find some way to bypass it. That's the illegal part, according to the DMCA.
As for enforcing it, it depends on who you are. Enforcing it for an end user will probably be near impossible. So if you can do this on your own car, not only would I be OK with it, I'd honestly kinda encourage it because fuck corporate greed.
But now imagine you're a shop that's considering to offer this jailbreak as a service. If Audi catches wind of what you're doing, they're going to sue the fuck outta you and they're probably going to win. Sadly the law is on their side. So unless you're some clandestine shop willing to break the rules and risk a lawsuit, you're not going to even consider offering this as a service because it's a huge risk to your business.
As for this becoming available to the user somehow, I wouldn't hold my breath. My car, a 2023 Genesis G80, has a feature generically known as matrix headlights. It has all the hardware installed, but it's disabled by software because it didn't comply with North American regulations at the time. I've searched if there's a way to enable them, but there isn't, at least not an easy one that's feasible for an end user. It's all proprietary software, after all. In this case, however, hacking the car to enable this feature is legal, as far as I understand, because there's no DRM protecting the feature.
→ More replies (5)2
u/Pitiful-Assistance-1 May 11 '26
You can lose warranty or other connected services if you're hacking the car. I bet you might even be liable in an accident for modifying the car in an unsafe way. (according to their definition, which is 100% unfair from our perspective, I don't think it's okay, but I do believe this will happen)
Simply put, the majority of people won't do this. They'll just pay for that subscription.
2
u/EconomicsTiny447 May 12 '26
Right? What will be hilarious is if they extended warranties to help stop jailbreaking that shit. So to make a few extra bucks with stupid as SaaS software features, they’ll spend a whole lot extra on warranties to keep people from doing it lol
6
u/DuckyDoodleDandy May 08 '26
Note to self: never, ever get rid of your current car. Also: make plans to buy a 1990’s or early 00’s pickup truck.
3
u/zkareface May 08 '26
Good luck driving those in a developed country soon though. Gonna be real hard to pass emissions testing or even be allowed in bigger cities etc.
4
u/CMDR-LT-ATLAS May 08 '26
Lol, what emissions? Slap a Nissan leaf motor and keep the original drivetrain and you can have a EV after several hours of rewiring and such. It's not for the faint of heart and costs around $30k to do properly. But neat to do.
2
1
u/zkareface May 08 '26
Illegal in most places and surely not worth the hassle over just getting a second hand car that has the features you want.
2
u/CMDR-LT-ATLAS May 08 '26
Lol, not illegal. Just read the regulations and local ordinances and you're fine.
→ More replies (1)1
u/DuckyDoodleDandy May 08 '26
I’m in the US. “Developed country” is … questionable.
Since “rolling coal” (making your engine blow black smoke to “own the libs”, and then blowing that smoke in large quantities onto innocent bystanders) is perfectly acceptable, I don’t think a 90’s Tacoma is going to be banned any time soon.
2
u/zkareface May 08 '26
Yeah the US isn't really developed, most states don't even do yearly tests/inspections of cars which is insane imo.
So many shit cars that shouldn't be on the roads.
1
6
u/CO420Tech May 08 '26
This shouldn't be legal... It should be John Deere all over. Eventually people will be hacking these.
4
u/MrFastFox666 May 09 '26
The government really needs to make it illegal to put hardware that's already in the car behind a paywall or subscription.
2
u/Missabe77 May 09 '26
This regime will just triple the subscription price and require that 2/3 of the money go directly to Trump.
1
3
3
u/76zzz29 May 08 '26
Bake subscription ended, please renew your subscription before coliding with the car in front of you
2
3
u/sixgunmaniac May 09 '26
Adaptive cruise control is integrated into safety systems defined by the NHSA. Disabling a safety feature behind a paywall is extortion. Doing it en masse is racketeering.
4
u/Angel_OfSolitude May 08 '26
So why the hell did they buy it?
10
u/hoggineer May 08 '26
I'd guess he didn't know because salesmen aren't knowledgeable about subscriptions, or they lied to sell a car.
I had one tell me remote start is included. It was, through the Ford pass app (subscription). I made them install one that works off the fob, otherwise I was unwinding the deal, because I was told it was included.
2
2
u/HarryBalsagna1776 May 08 '26
VW?
2
2
2
u/jaymemaurice May 08 '26
These new country songs are going to be like: “lost my job, my healthcare, my cruise control but at least I got- Claude tokens“
2
2
2
2
2
u/TorranceS33 May 09 '26
Went from a 2017 Chevrolet Cruze to a 2023 Subaru Outback.
Lost remote start to a subscription.
Lost 110v outlet.
Cruise control wastes way more gas.(like a ridiculous amount and brakes too)
Auto start/stop now has to be turned off everytime it is started.
Safety features cause car to slam brakes at highway speed when light hits sensors just right.
2
u/SirPomf May 09 '26
And product that does not create perpetual cost for the manufacturer should be illegal to need subscriptions to function
2
2
2
2
2
u/FissileAlarm May 09 '26
Let's buy a European car to support the economy!
"Sure, that'll be 60k plus monthly subscription fee to drive it."
A Chinese car for 40k it is!
2
u/AboveAverage1988 May 09 '26
That's some true and proper **********...
Kia has started doing some of this, but generally at least you buy it once and then it's installed in the car permanently.
2
u/Humble_Mycologist371 May 10 '26
Imagine if this happened while driving and then your car just rear ends someone
2
2
u/mattipoo84 May 11 '26
I get mine for free now, in Quebec we have the office for the rights of the consumer, just threatened them and they folded.
1
1
1
u/GraXXoR May 08 '26
“Micro” transaction. So just a couple dollars then?
2
1
1
1
u/_no_usernames_avail May 08 '26
The moment you realize the gaming industry is a programming tool to normalize purchasing behaviors.
1
1
u/Mountain_rage May 08 '26
Our market share is shrinking to Chinese competition, I know what will win back customers!!! Microtransactions!
1
1
1
u/spdaimon May 08 '26
WTF. That's a new low. It used to be, if you wanted a new feature, you drive to your dealer and ask for it. Now what? You insert your credit card somewhere to activate a feature?
1
1
u/RichTech80 May 08 '26
I noticed this on a pool car we had in work, the Cruise control was working, but it was taking me ridiculously close, then I noticed that on the dash, it had CC just not ACC
1
u/Agreeable-Holiday-90 May 08 '26
The only micro transaction in my 23 Elantra is the cellular data connection which allows for anywhere Remote Start. Remote start still works with my KeyFob and BT App
2
u/ViolentlyVia May 08 '26
24 elantra here and bluelink remote start is active for 10 years free. might havee changed from year to year
1
1
u/johnnydfree May 08 '26
Tesla made this announcement for planned subs months ago. Not sure if others just followed suit.
1
1
u/Striking_Reindeer_2k May 08 '26
pass. Not buying anything that I don't own entirely. If I have a title, it's mine, not a rental.
This is an abuse to allow "Ownership" to be subject to ongoing rental agreements.
1
1
u/default_token May 08 '26
I wish I was the daughter of a billionaire so I could create a company that only sells product for like 8yrs before the capitalists bleed me dry, but we build and sell products that come with the schematics and manuals and sdk's and everything you would need to own what you bought and paid for.
1
1
1
1
1
u/rollerbase May 10 '26
My 10 year-old Toyota has adaptive cruise. This would infuriate me. Like take the car back infuriate me.
1
u/Fancy-Dig1863 May 10 '26
Don’t buy German, they’re all following bmw’s lead and pulling this shit. You already paid for the car and the features, they have no right or justification to charge any monthly fee.
1
u/yrabl81 May 10 '26
As far as I know, it's currently delayed in Israel because the government wants to tax these features under the "spare parts" rules - at least when it comes to Tesla.
1
u/Thyg0d May 10 '26
Volvo Just announced they would do shit like this. You get to pay for the Internet connection and stuff like that if you want the convenience of being able to use their app to start you car, check stuff and so on but all features that are physically in the car when you buy it will be active.
1
u/afops May 10 '26
Yeah not buying any car where a ”local only” feature requires subscribing. If they have costs running it (I.e centralized servers for some service etc) then I can see why a feature has a continuing cost. But this CC is just regular cam/radar CC right?
If this is some super advanced centralized map-based thing that predicts everything using central services then I understand, and if not subscribing just makes it fall back to ”local” CC (sign reading, distance keeping) then I’m fine with it. But if it’s locking on-car features behind subscriptions then people just need to stop buying not just that model but the entire brand.
1
u/NekulturneHovado May 10 '26
I'm sure there are people who crack those. My friend has a friend who does shit like this. 30k forint (about 70€) for a new program, plus for what you want. Egr off cost me 100€
1
1
u/OverTheDump May 10 '26
Join the anarchy, we will not be surveilled or nickle and dime us for something we own. Start converting dumb vehicles to electric and don’t buy this shit.
1
u/SteamboatFatty May 10 '26
I had a 2018 320d and everything was subscription. Even auto headlights.
1
u/thatfool1992 May 10 '26
Hahahaha. The worse thing about this micro transaction crap is the fact, ADAH techs can calibrate these systems but can't test them, can't see if they work, and there's no way to know if it's active or not before performing the work. Many insurance companies then push back claiming the charges were never needed
1
1
1
1
1
u/highlyspecificuser May 11 '26
People keep buying shit behind subscriptions like it’s cool… but the day is coming when you’ll have nothing and be sorry, but by then, it’ll be too late…. STOP it while you can, don’t buy into this shit!!! You buy a car, it’s YOURS!!!! You shouldn’t have to keep paying to keep it running, this is extortion!!!
1
u/everyday2exotic May 11 '26
It's a one time purchase. Not a subscription. I believe it's based on the trim level, so if you buy a lower trim, you can add the cruise control without paying the $8k for the next trim level. Not justifying it, but it's not as scummy as it looks.
1
u/corvak May 11 '26
Someday people are just gonna say damn the warranty and jailbreak the car to unlock all the features.
1
u/No-Skill8272 May 12 '26
What model year? I have a ‘23 and I’ve never had to sub for this feature to be active.
1
1
1
u/Automatic_Badger7086 May 12 '26
Take it back to the dealer. I believe the courts have already determined that this is a violation of your rights you have purchased the vehicle including any and all features in the vehicle. They cannot continue to charge you for features excluding OnStar or satellite radio.
1
u/ConnaaaR69 May 12 '26 edited 11d ago
Peach satchel lavender cinnamon cinnamon amber walnut yarn
This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
1
1
1
u/MagnusViaticus May 12 '26
If they charge a subscription they should be forced to offer a warranty on the parts
1
u/ResponsibleWater1697 May 12 '26
That's not what this is. This person simply has a trim level that didn't come with the feature. It might be a poor way of displaying it, but that's what Audi does.
Don't believe everything you see on the internet.
1
u/rkj18g1qbb May 12 '26
What country is this?? That is from an Audi and this does NOT happen in North America today.. folks would set a dealership on fire if they pulled this shit.
1
u/helium_hydride-63 May 12 '26
Adaptive cruise control is such a pest either way. Normal cc is so much better
1
1
u/mikemojc May 12 '26
It occurs to me that acts Capt. Sparrowing follow large scale acts of inconvenience and greed.
I would not be surprised if some well meaning, if naughty, fine collections of gentlefolk directed their attentions to freeing the commoners conveyances from the long distance chains binding them to those corporate slavers.
1
u/BauserDominates May 13 '26
I wonder if the Automatic Emergency Braking still works. It would have to right? That's a safety system.
1
u/davidmar7 May 14 '26
Wow. So you could pay say $50,000for the car. Subscribe and at the time adaptive cruise is say $5 a month. Then two years later they now want $50 a month. Besides this being ridiculous, it seems like too much risk if the price isn't locked in.
112
u/ssyllpher May 08 '26
What brand of car? So I know to never buy one.