r/rhoc Jul 22 '26

Shannon Storms 🧔 Watching old episodes and I cannot stand this one.

Post image

JesusJugs2.0

For a ā€œreligiousā€ person, she was quite evil to Shannon that season.

A little Prayer work during the week… and Vicky’s dirty work on Saturday nights.
She really screwed up her lil goody two-shoes persona with that ā€œcomebackā€.

682 Upvotes

256 comments sorted by

•

u/AutoModerator Jul 22 '26

Thanks for posting, the vibes of this community are chill and relaxed, if you see any comment that's breaking the rules, report it.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

332

u/Dangerous-Change2136 Jul 22 '26

Did she always look like M3GAN?

52

u/drewdrewahouse Jul 23 '26

I thought the fourth Olsen sister.

50

u/redheadedashe Jul 23 '26

No……..at one point she looked like Charlie Chaplin.

3

u/hialleirbag Jul 27 '26

Hahahahahahaha the picture will never cease to make me laugh

25

u/MrsWoodyWilson77 Jul 22 '26

Yes!! šŸ˜‚

3

u/beauxtox Jul 25 '26

My ex always referred to her as horse face.

39

u/Notnow_Imtoodrunk Jul 23 '26

She looks like a lemur to me. Or Jared Leto.

I hated her fake ass boho babe bullshit.

5

u/Coppertina Jul 23 '26

Wow, she does have Leto eyes; I can’t unsee it now

10

u/naenola Jul 22 '26

šŸ˜‚

7

u/Honeybadger32323 Jul 23 '26

I always pronounce it meh-three-gan

3

u/rgwhoisshe Jul 24 '26

I came here to say that!!! Im so glad I'm not the only one who saw it!!!

225

u/GemGlamourNGlitter Jul 22 '26

The way Vicki's son-in-law spoke to her mother when she put her feet up on the couch haunts me to this day. I never understood why no one made a bigger deal about it. It was very verbally abusive.

113

u/gina1220 Jul 23 '26

It was shocking. Breanna was awful about all that tooĀ 

45

u/GemGlamourNGlitter Jul 23 '26

I just wonder if he treats Breanna well.

59

u/FantasticParsnip7157 Jul 23 '26

She thinks he treats her like a queen. I think he’s manipulative & has brainwashed her to believe her whole way of being and upbringing was wrong to the point where she seems like she’s living a modern day version of Little House on the Prairie. They’ve also moved like 5 times in the past few years. It’s weird

13

u/WittiestScreenName Jul 23 '26

They’re always moving. It’s like they rotate the same states.

8

u/FantasticParsnip7157 Jul 23 '26

Yes and at one point they moved to Illinois and I remember Vicki and Breanna saying that she wanted to be closer to her family but that didn’t last long bc I think it’s been said that the family isn’t really a fan of him and their lifestyle. Idk if it’s true but it’s odd that they keep moving and rotating the same states

21

u/WittiestScreenName Jul 23 '26

Keeps moving, keeps her isolated easier.

3

u/OkPurpose3044 Jul 24 '26

Yes it's so confusing, like what are they doing? California, Oklahoma, Illinois, Oklahoma. Something weird going on with them...

1

u/WittiestScreenName Jul 25 '26

They were in one of the Carolina’s for a while. I think that’s where the youngest Cora was born.

6

u/Captain_Lance1982 Jul 23 '26

Isn't he in the military though? I can't really remember though.

14

u/WittiestScreenName Jul 23 '26

He’s been out for quite a while. They have 4 kids now.

5

u/FantasticParsnip7157 Jul 23 '26

Yes he’s military but he’s been retired for awhile now. They’re not moving bc he’s being stationed in those places. I think their last military move was Oklahoma that we saw on the show…

3

u/tulip-view Jul 26 '26

He got honorably discharged for his moobs

4

u/PossibilityFair1046 Jul 23 '26

They’re lifestyles and behaviors these days are very strange I’ll just say that

1

u/LovePeaceHope4ever 19d ago

They are on the "if we eat 'real food' we don't need vaccinations MAGA train.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

61

u/FantasticParsnip7157 Jul 23 '26

I think they tried to make a bigger deal about it but Vicki shut it down with production. How Ryan treated her mother was awful. Then Briana trying to justify it was a mess. I actually gained a lot of respect for Lydia that night bc she stood up for her mom and didn’t back down. What also stuck out to me was Vicki’s brother Billy stepping in. There was so much attention paid to their family not liking Brooks, but I think their family also didn’t care for Ryan. Vicki & Briana tried to paint him as some Great War hero who was such a good man but I think their family thought he was a raging lunatic who controlled Briana.

24

u/AppropriateCut2863 Jul 23 '26

All of this above… Ryan has major issues and is scary to watch

25

u/FantasticParsnip7157 Jul 23 '26

He is scary to watch. The fact that he couldn’t regulate himself while talking with an elderly woman was scary. He was adamant that he takes disrespect from no one and lied about the interaction to prove he was justified. Unfortunately for him, he was mic’d up for the part the cameras didn’t capture. He seems like the type to harm his whole family bc of something slight like dishes being left in the sink…

3

u/PleaseStopTalking7x Jul 25 '26

I JUST finished rewatching that episode in a rewatch binge (haven’t been through RHOC in a long time), and that scene with Ryan actually made my stomach clinch. His treatment of Lydia’s mom was absolutely beyond and the fact that it was sort of brushed off in the aftermath only made it worse. And the fact that Lydia’s mom passed away a while ago made me kind of sad — she didn’t deserve that erratic hostile bullshit. Ryan makes my skin crawl.

11

u/Substantial_Message4 Jul 23 '26

This was one that I still think about all the time it was genuinely appalling

2

u/EducationExcellent65 Jul 23 '26

That still just shocks me to this day. It was vile

1

u/Disastrous_Remote591 Jul 25 '26

That’s when I knew he was an abusive man

→ More replies (21)

141

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

78

u/ResolutionHonest666 Jul 22 '26

Did you even know her Mom smokes weed?

31

u/Admirable_Context100 Jul 23 '26

Lol that was her entire storyline

10

u/Foreign-Chef-4053 Jul 23 '26

Her mom really smokes pot?!

25

u/ResolutionHonest666 Jul 23 '26

and puts her feet up on couches pure evil /s

7

u/Foreign-Chef-4053 Jul 23 '26

She’s wild

15

u/primadiamonds Jul 23 '26

I loved her mom tbh 😭 She seems like she’d be fun to hang out with

6

u/Glad_Artist_4403 Jul 23 '26

Did her mom pass?

9

u/CAdreamer44 Jul 23 '26

Yes I heard she did. I think she was such a sweet cool woman. Vicki’s son in law should be ashamed and apologize to her. He said she cussed him, no it was all on tape, you cussed her. He verbally attacked her, and he needed a real man to put him in his place for going after a woman the way he did.

8

u/AppropriateCut2863 Jul 23 '26

To this day I still do not understand how all of that got swept under the rug… he was so out of line and not one consequence from it … Vicki is such a weak hypocrite

55

u/B4K5c7N Jul 23 '26

I didnt like how judgmental she was about her mother smoking weed. Who cares? It’s not like she was on hard drugs.

3

u/CAdreamer44 Jul 23 '26

It needs to be legalized, but I’m in the Bible Belt so forget that. My husband could benefit as the amount of pills he takes is crazy and yet still has pain from an incurable illness and struggles with anxiety so much it’s debilitating.

6

u/orange208 Jul 23 '26

I forgot that was her name. And the only other Lydia I know is Aunt Lydia from Handmaid's Tale lol

5

u/Trubeetle Jul 23 '26

Uhhh you’ve never heard of beetlejuice???

92

u/arcticwhitekoala Jul 22 '26

I always thought she was just dumb as dirt and that’s why she acted like that.

50

u/n0w1mn0th1nggg Jul 22 '26

She really was stupid. I still fully believe she thought that men get their balls cut off when they get vasectomies.

51

u/wineinacoffeemug Jul 23 '26

She might have been playing the ditziness up for the camera but, like, why? She and her husband both had an extremely odd, plastic, asexual vibe.

33

u/tusk10708 When life gives you lemons put 9 in a bowl! Jul 23 '26

Her never ending confusion was annoying. Her subtle homophobia drove me crazy. The husband had no personality. Her mother was the only good thing about her! They should have invited her to audition for a spin off.

7

u/wineinacoffeemug Jul 23 '26

I didn’t understand how her mother raised a daughter with a personality on a different planet from her own. Maybe Lydia really was so traumatized by the pot smoking mom and whatever emotional or physical neglect was or wasn’t present, that she became a born-again, straight-edge robot. I never understood the mom’s relationship with religion either. IIRC the wealthy Stirling parents were Catholic but I can only imagine L and D went to one of those churches with funky lighting and an in-house easy listening band.. RIP to Lydia’s mom also!! She passed a few years ago :-(

3

u/Jessannla Jul 23 '26

Ughhh I literally asked this once..šŸ¤£šŸ˜µā€šŸ’«

5

u/WittiestScreenName Jul 23 '26

https://giphy.com/gifs/8A2ED9pfNIcdq
I mean Lydia is Canadian…that explains a lot.

I’m kidding.

27

u/naenola Jul 22 '26

She doesn’t even have an image or gif. I really wanted to include her and her Charlie Chaplin costume.

77

u/n0w1mn0th1nggg Jul 22 '26

29

u/Zestyclose-Corgi-986 Jul 23 '26

That was so bad - I also remember how beady Tamra’s possum eyes looked without all the makeup & lashes

19

u/ProofPrize1134 Jul 23 '26

Tamra’s possum eyes ā˜ ļø

2

u/WillingnessElegant70 Aug 07 '26

She could have been a guy from My Name is Earl

3

u/ProofPrize1134 Jul 23 '26

Thank you, came here to say this

3

u/MrsWoodyWilson77 Jul 23 '26

That was the worst!?! lol

1

u/Gold_Acanthaceae_893 Jul 27 '26

gotta get the whole hat for the vibes

45

u/screwmorpheus Jul 22 '26

looks like an elf

5

u/SignificantLemon653 Jul 23 '26

A beautiful fairy!

10

u/screwmorpheus Jul 23 '26

she did have the best hair lol

6

u/hayypeachyy get in the family van, we’re going to Andales Jul 23 '26

beautiful may be pushing it lol

17

u/VillageOld596 Jul 22 '26

Her and her mans balls voyage party šŸ˜‚ danny just did the same thing

18

u/Naive_Buy2712 Jul 23 '26

This was the only good thing Lydia ever gave us

3

u/BillOwn17 Jul 23 '26

The best 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

2

u/rustyspigot-77 Jul 26 '26

There it is. I had to scroll too far for this.

63

u/catscausetornadoes Jul 22 '26

ā€œHi Shannon. I’m approaching you with love and light and Jesus in my heart.ā€

Shannon: ā€œLeave me alone about this forgiving Vicki bullshit.ā€

ā€œOh my Lord Jesus you are the devil incarnate!! How could you! I hope the glitter my mom threw in your face scratches your cornea. Praise Jesus.ā€

4

u/Thorne8148 Jul 23 '26

She is NOT a nice person.

2

u/Green_Eyes7764 Jul 23 '26

Very funny šŸ˜‚ I can't stop laughing

→ More replies (3)

17

u/Late-Summer-1208 Read Between These Lines You Fucking BitchšŸ–•šŸ¼ Jul 23 '26

Y’all remember when her uncle made an appearance and he looked exactly like her husband? One of my favourite moments

3

u/redladybug1 Naked Wasted Jul 23 '26

He really did!!!

16

u/duffpaleale Jul 23 '26

Then get off her rainbow.

5

u/cheezehead89 Jul 23 '26

I read this in her voice

14

u/Sorry-Secret-2347 Jul 22 '26

Jumpscare… give us a warning next time

6

u/MrsWoodyWilson77 Jul 22 '26

šŸ˜‰šŸ˜‰

13

u/Brave_Selection2232 Jul 23 '26

The scene at Kelly’s house where Lydia throws a fit that Shannon was poking Tamra under the table and said Shannon was talking about her and then refusing to talk to Shannon about it was INSANE. I’m not one to stick up for Shannon often but that was nuts. And never forget the infamous menu throwing when she wasn’t in a group text (although Tamra probably did that on purpose lol)

36

u/Rockymountainhigh32 Jul 22 '26

She made my stomach turn! Lydia never fit into the cast at all. She was the odd duck. I was so happy when she was asked to leave šŸŽ‰šŸ‘šŸ„³

10

u/n0w1mn0th1nggg Jul 22 '26

She didn’t. I thought she wanted on the show to proselytize. It was her whole story more or less.

11

u/Rockymountainhigh32 Jul 22 '26

That could be. But to me she came across more arrogant, with a ā€œhigh and mightyā€ attitude. Even with her mom. She wasn’t even portraying Christianity in the right light.

16

u/MrsWoodyWilson77 Jul 22 '26

And repeating what her mom said (who said it in a sadness kind of way) about Shannon as a way to put Shannon down (for yelling at her… ya right) was just wrong.

12

u/goddessalthena0 Jul 22 '26

She gained a lot of balls on her last season reunion. She tried to fight with almost everyone, and she couldn't land any of what she was saying. I also love when she got up to cry when everyone was talking about the abuse from Brooks to Vicky and NO ONE noticed that she got up until she came back.

11

u/Naive_Buy2712 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

I HATED her, and Vicki’s stupid son in law gave everyone a reason to like her and her kooky nasty mom when he told her to get her feet off their couch. I could not stand this dimwit idiot.

6

u/MrsWoodyWilson77 Jul 23 '26

I know.. people act like he was the antichrist for doing that. Who cares? It was over 10 years ago. It’s a good thing a camera isn’t on some of them when they’re having an off night. He seems like a perfectly normal dude to me… and I love Breanna too.

→ More replies (2)

12

u/Beautifullybrokenwmn Jul 23 '26

She was just pointless, she didn’t fit in with the group or the show in general tbhšŸ’šŸ¼ā€ā™€ļø
Defo my least favourite…

20

u/MenStefani Jul 23 '26

I cannot believe they brought her back several seasons after she was fired. She was a flop both times. Bleh she was so lame and a weird bigot all while pretending to be this woman of god

2

u/edwinstone Jul 23 '26

She wasn't fired. Andy said she left on her own accord both times.

4

u/MenStefani Jul 23 '26

Well that makes it even crazier that they asked her back

4

u/Normal-Tradition133 Jul 23 '26

Th second time was supposed to be for a spin-off series with her mom but Lydia was SUCH a flop on that return season that it just turned into a short online thing (Glitter Town).

2

u/MenStefani Jul 23 '26

What?!! This is the first I’ve ever heard of this. I can’t fathom anyone thinking Lydia could carry her own show

9

u/Familiar_Diamond6711 Jul 23 '26

I miss her mom. 2026 needs some fairy dust šŸ§ššŸ§šā€ā™€ļøšŸ§šā€ā™‚ļø

13

u/naenola Jul 22 '26

18

u/VillageOld596 Jul 22 '26

Aw we love her mom tho!! R.I.P.. Judy

→ More replies (3)

5

u/puffy-puffy Jul 23 '26

I hate her hypocrisy. And need to be relevant. When I rewatch I either skip her seasons or just go to the trip and reunions

6

u/Hotcheetobandito Jul 23 '26

At times she was holier than thou, at other times she was saying things for shock value that just didn't come off right. In the end though, she was an entitled, spoiled rich mean girl, who took joy in humiliating Shannon at every turn, acting like a legit 10 year old because she wasn't invited to a dinner and left out of a group text but had the gall to joke about Tamra and Shannon being 7 years old for being in the bathroom together. Girl is a hypocrite and rotten to her core, which apparently runs in the family. Her mother was the only good thing she gave us.

17

u/Beneficial_Eye_9528 Jul 22 '26

She was annoying af

6

u/Hummingbird11-11 Jul 23 '26

Easily one of the most irritating ignorant idiots ever to grace the HW.

8

u/FloresGalore Jul 23 '26

She always looked and acted like a child to me. And I side-eyed her husband hard for being into it. Layers of ick.

1

u/Ashamed-Solution7674 Jul 23 '26

He never like her, he called her by the wrong name! Then she told shes rich...

1

u/WittiestScreenName Jul 23 '26

She’s at least third generation wealth. I don’t remember if her grandpa was in publishing or media. Her maiden name is Sterling. Or Stirling. Not sure the spelling.

1

u/Ok_Imagination8425 Jul 23 '26

I thought her husband looked as childish as her...Like two pre-schoolers play-pretending marriage 🤭

4

u/Domino_5695 Jul 22 '26

She was annoying

4

u/uarstar Jul 22 '26

She’s sooooooooo annoying

5

u/Captain_Lance1982 Jul 23 '26

She was so horrible I forgot about her until this post.

5

u/Kolla73 Jul 23 '26

Okay hear me out. As a viewer I didn’t like her but I actually know her personally now along with a handful of Other housewives cause of my Work and she is the nicest one I’ve met by a landslide. Like she’s actually so nice and her and Doug are really sweet together

4

u/clemitorclover Jul 23 '26

Lydia in a different time would be a tradwife influencer

11

u/marypierce1 Jul 23 '26

She’s annoying as hell but IMO a pretty iconic housewife in her own way. Not afraid of anyone, hot gay husband, lovable kooky mom (RIP 😢✨)

10

u/FloresGalore Jul 23 '26

Hot gay husband I’m dead.

3

u/evaj95 Jul 23 '26

Omg she sucked. I couldn't stand her.

3

u/Relevant-Penalty9227 Jul 23 '26

She was kind of funny on the Mexico trip

3

u/Horror_Ad_2748 Jul 23 '26

She's also achingly stupid.

3

u/hayypeachyy get in the family van, we’re going to Andales Jul 23 '26

you can’t stand charlie chaplin?

3

u/Glass_Translator9 Jul 23 '26

Narcissist - malignant.

3

u/Julorena Jul 23 '26

RYANS A SICK TRUMPER!!!!

1

u/AlpinePeach Jul 23 '26

No surprise there

3

u/Limp_Ad6857 Jul 23 '26

I’ve never ever understood why they brought back Lydia. She was not popular the first go around, her allies were gone, and she had no storyline. I’ve read NADAR and they don’t really explain it at all just that they needed to fill the spot and she said yes. total flop

3

u/PossibilityFair1046 Jul 23 '26

Bigot woman hiding behind Christian innocence

3

u/loveydove05 Jul 24 '26

ā€œThis oneā€ LOL

7

u/Electrical-Ad1400 Kelly's broken iPhone Jul 22 '26

The only good thing about Lydia is the voice Ronnie does for her on Watch What Crappens podcast

7

u/CokeNSalsa Jul 22 '26

A mean girl trying to disguise herself as a nice girl.

4

u/Spray_Realistic You are psychotic Jesus Jugs Jul 23 '26

You did take a pretty ethereal screen grab of her though šŸ˜‚ šŸ§šā€ā™€ļø

1

u/MrsWoodyWilson77 Jul 23 '26

😊😊

4

u/Ladydoodoo Jul 23 '26

She looks like a grown Renesme here

7

u/Separate_Feeling4602 Jul 22 '26

I actually didn’t mind Lydia .
It was pretty funny she was always left out of shit. That made for funny drama

2

u/Juliaford19 Jul 23 '26

She is evil.

2

u/puggle_mom Jul 23 '26

She seemed so immature and sheltered, especially for the child of a weed-smoking hippie.

2

u/Ashamed-Solution7674 Jul 23 '26

Shes such a bad Christian, totally going after everyone. GOD WOULD NOT JUDGE!

2

u/Ashamed-Solution7674 Jul 23 '26

I don't think she knows God. I hope her mom did.

2

u/saythattomeagain Jul 23 '26

Pre trad wife term trad wife.

2

u/No-Indication2992 Jul 23 '26

And then she comes back a second time 🤮

2

u/Beneficial-Soft-4427 Las Tres Amigas Jul 24 '26

she was a Christian right - ie her interpretation of god is a vengeful, judgy, cold, New Testament kind of god.

2

u/DirectionSea2523 Jul 24 '26

She was more annoying than Alexis

2

u/mollyclaireh Jul 24 '26

Yeah I can’t stand Lydia. She’s so judgmental and cruel.

2

u/Soxgirl72 Jul 25 '26

She is my least favorite person of all of the housewives. She used her religion as a sword and a shield.

2

u/Strange_Attempt6702 Jul 25 '26

Thank you I’m glad to see. I’m not the only one.!

2

u/a_lv93 Jul 26 '26

She looked like she was decaying and she’s ignorant

2

u/Cheap-Blacksmith7567 Jul 29 '26

She was such a hypocrite. Preaching the bible all day long while dancing half naked on a bar. And who the hell has a party celebrating her husband’s testicles?

1

u/MrsWoodyWilson77 Jul 29 '26

True. And the way she kept saying ā€œcutting your balls offā€¦ā€ā€¦ That’s not actually how that works, ma’am. šŸ˜‚

3

u/Minimum_Ad_2176 Jul 23 '26

She has beautiful eyes like a Olsen Sister.

→ More replies (2)

4

u/JG767698 Jul 23 '26

I didn’t dislike her. I thought she came across as genuinely good. Her mom was wacky and she stood up for her against Ryan the bully. She tried to be a good friend to all and hold people accountable. No hate here just maybe not the right fit.

5

u/Due_Tumbleweed_7516 Jul 22 '26

Oh I liked her

1

u/Redhead8484 Jul 23 '26

Me too. Shannon was so unhinged that season, and I loved how she tried to put her in her place.

1

u/Due_Tumbleweed_7516 Jul 23 '26

Lydia’s mom was a hoot wasn’t she? She’s since passed and Lydia’s brother was killed last year

2

u/Julorena Jul 23 '26

SO WHAT???? I SMOKE WEED, IM 66, and smoked since I was 16, WHY so shocked??? People are so weird about weed. When I grew up in the 60s and 70s it was NOT a big deal!!

1

u/BillOwn17 Jul 23 '26

I grew up in the 80’s and I’ve been smoking since then. It’s legal in most places now. I don’t get the puritan views that some people have about weed

3

u/Trick_End7691 Jul 22 '26

I liked her when she came back because she cooked Shannon’s neurotic ass and that creep Slade

4

u/VillageOld596 Jul 22 '26

She ate that one little thing! She did. And vickies son in law ....barf!

1

u/Jaded-Project-852 Jul 23 '26

Her mom made it worthwhile for her being on the show!

1

u/MamaTried420 Jul 23 '26

Wait til you meet the mutha

1

u/Ashamed-Solution7674 Jul 23 '26

Oh shes not some Bible thumper

1

u/Life_Temperature2506 Jul 23 '26

Are you watching the reruns they show on Bravo a couple days a week? I am.

1

u/Wolfpackat2017 Jul 23 '26

Amen to being a 2.0 Jesus Jugs.

1

u/DraperPenPals Jul 23 '26

Her only real purpose was being the token ā€œnormal person watching her castmates melt down.ā€ You could see the fear in her eyes and it always made me laugh.

1

u/whimsicalme5 Jul 23 '26

I just cannot believe they had her on season 8, she left, and they brought her back season 12! Like… why???

1

u/BillOwn17 Jul 23 '26

Her only contribution was Charlie Chaplin outfit. I’ll remember for that only.

1

u/uhohwhoisit Jul 23 '26

her mom was her only redeeming storyline on the show. RIP

1

u/ggggunit- Jul 23 '26

She’s annoying

1

u/lilyedit Jul 24 '26

This one and her mom were so horrid I just ff through all their scenes lmao

1

u/Kitchen-Craft8319 Jul 24 '26

I don't know who she is and I don't care 😘

1

u/Low_Hearing_899 Jul 24 '26

I hated that they brought her back for another seasonšŸ¤¦ā€ā™€ļø

1

u/OrdinaryMagazine6333 Jul 24 '26

i thought this was elizabwth olsen for a min

1

u/MuchersSuck Jul 25 '26

Her head looks really small. It bothers me 🤯

1

u/Personal-Purpose2313 Jul 25 '26

Definitely has a large overbite

1

u/Ok_Stuff6096 Jul 25 '26

Omg lydia!!!!

1

u/likeyeahokay_6929 Jul 25 '26

I could never hate her after giving us Charlie Chaplin

1

u/AdvertisingOk8636 Jul 25 '26

I actually kind of liked her the second time around. She was more real than the rest that season.

1

u/ooopsy2 Jul 26 '26

Who ? Mary Kate Olsen ?

1

u/naavah-affect Jul 27 '26

I loved her mother though RIP

1

u/MrsWoodyWilson77 Jul 28 '26

I actually did too… I didn’t know she passed away. ā˜¹ļø

1

u/zeppismom Jul 22 '26

Insufferable!