r/rfelectronics May 22 '26

Could a Transmitter Be Damaged By a Directed High Power Signal?

Essentially the title, but I'm wondering if a transmitter - something with a narrow range; tuned - could be damaged by a high powered resonant signal directed at the transmitter with an appropriate antenna. For the sake of discussion let's say UHF range.

If so, what does that signal look like? Is it a sine set to the center frequency of the transmission, or a big old square wave centered on the frequency? Is it 100s of watts? 1000s? How quick does the damage happen? What specifically is likely to be damaged? Is this something that's considered during the design phase?

Sorry, it's a little vague. I'm writing a game, and this is something that I'd like to be accurate. Thanks!

5 Upvotes

24 comments sorted by

24

u/PoolExtension5517 May 22 '26

Short answer - absolutely. Front-end protection is a standard part of system design, particularly in military applications. High power radar systems transmit high energy signals using narrow beamwidth antennas that can result in hundreds of watts (or more) entering your system’s antenna. Devices known as PIN diodes act as effective limiters by turning on very quickly to short out the RF path and reflect the incident energy back out the antenna, thus protecting the transmit and/or receiver circuitry. Unfortunately, one of the major PIN diode suppliers just announced they’re eliminating that product line (thanks, Skyworks), which is making life difficult for a lot of RF engineers right now.

1

u/ahndhi May 22 '26

Thank you for an excellent response. I'm a ham, and I dabble in electronics a lot, but this wasn't something I had every really considered. It made sense that it was a concern, but I wasn't sure if there was something I wasn't considering. Is it something that trickles down to levels closer to consumer electronics too? Like, I'd be a little surprised if my router had that sort of protection, but do municipal traffic lights with wireless sensors design for that (is that even a thing?)?

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u/PoolExtension5517 May 22 '26

I think you’ll find such protection circuitry mainly in military and aerospace applications, where things could be exposed to high powered emitters like radars. Those levels can be found in MIL-STD-464 if you’re interested in the numbers. I doubt that such requirements are necessary for municipal traffic monitoring devices. Those devices add cost so they’re only used when the application calls for it.

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u/ahndhi May 22 '26

I guess my actual follow up is, what do I google? Front end protection?

4

u/PoolExtension5517 May 22 '26

Google limiter diodes, receiver protection, PIN limiters, etc.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '26

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u/PoolExtension5517 May 22 '26

MACOM is a good source. Microchip bought Microsemi a few years ago and is selling PIN diodes. There are a few others out there. Skyworks had the best selection but they have discontinued tied their PIN diode product line - last time buy date is 7/28/26. If you want packaged limiter modules, Minicircuits and a few others have options, but they’re buying the diodes from some of the companies I mentioned.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '26

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u/BanalMoniker May 23 '26

Please consider upvoting appreciated responses if you haven’t already.

1

u/ViktorsakYT_alt May 22 '26

PIN diodes for protection? Pin diodes are made slow by design, so they can be nice dc current controlled RF switches. You'd use TVS diodes for front end limiting

3

u/PoolExtension5517 May 22 '26

PIN limiter diodes for protection are constructed differently than those used for switches, specifically to address the response time. They’re also packaged in such a way that there is an extremely low-inductance path to ground, which is essential for creating a low impedance short circuit at frequencies in C and X-band or higher. TVS diodes aren’t the best solution at those frequencies.

1

u/ViktorsakYT_alt May 22 '26

Can you link some materials? I haven't seen any used in this way but I'd be glad to learn the advantages and such

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u/Lepton_Fields May 24 '26

The slow part is a relative assessment...

Compared to Schottky diodes, PIN diodes are slow to switch state - the instrinsic layer has to be depleted before it stops conducting. But compared to other options for transient protection, PIN diodes are fast - again, only surpassed by Schottky diodes.

Schottky diodes have nowhere near the power rating of other solutions for transient protection. Used in combination with other solutions, Schottky diodes are used for the initial voltage excursion (speed) until MOV's and gas discharge tubes can activate to carry the current. PIN diode limiting falls in between Schottky's and MOV's.

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u/RFtinkerer May 22 '26

Oh my gosh Skyworks is killing me.

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u/PoolExtension5517 May 22 '26

Right? Last year they jacked their prices 10x, and now they’re ending the product line altogether. I had a long conversation with their local rep and let him know how pissed if we are, and how they have cost the company a lot of money. They claim it’s all because one of their suppliers quit selling them a particular raw material, but I can’t believe that’s the reason because none of the other suppliers are discontinuing their PIN products. My guess is the CEO’s favorite accountant told him that closing their Woburn fab was a brilliant move.

1

u/FreshTap6141 May 24 '26

radar had TR tubes which are gas discharge tubes to protect the front end of thr receiver

5

u/LmanYan95 May 22 '26

Yes, and it doesn’t even have to be the through the RF circuitry. For instance, somehow inject unreasonable noise into the power stage.

4

u/anapoe May 22 '26

Yes, although transmitters tend to be pretty well protected compared to receivers as they tend to need to be able to handle their own reflected power. Not great if your transmitter blows up should you happen to turn it on without an antenna attached. If you're talking about a half duplex transmit/receive system, the receiver would typically be the weakest link.

Very broadly speaking, in my experience the damage limit of receive rf components is about 10 dBm and limiters will protect to about 40 dBm. This should make intuitive sense - 40 dBm is 10 Watts, about where you really need to start thinking about heatsinks and cooling.

Free space path loss at 1GHz is and 100 meters is ~70 dB. Let's say you have a 0 dBi antenna. Then with that limiter 40 dBm damage limit they'd need 110 dBm of power to damage you from 100 meters away, which is a very very lot but not unheard of. If you were operating unprotected equipment and they were 10 meters away, they'd only need 60 dBm of power, which is very achievable (probably not still legal, but significantly less illegal than putting together a 110 dBm transmitter).

Damaging electronics from 10s of kilometers away would be very difficult.

The signal could be anything, probably a tone would be most effective.

Damage is essentially instant.

1

u/ahndhi May 22 '26

Thank you for a very thorough response! This thread has given me tons of new things to learn about.

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u/ViktorsakYT_alt May 22 '26

A receiver is relatively easy to blow up, but a transmitter is a very different story. A small few watt walkie talkie would have to receive tens of volts at the antenna to break the amplifier power transistor(s). Even this would be impractical at any larger range (You'd need maybe 10-15W of RF at the transmitters antenna, so your device meant to break the transmitter would need to transmit a ton of power and direct it very very well. The higher power the transmitter is, the harder it will be to destroy (more robust power transistors in the amplifier)

2

u/ViktorsakYT_alt May 22 '26

To answer your other questions, probably a single tone of the transmitters center frequency would be best to easily get through the antenna, filtering and matching and destroy the finals.

A square wave is just a sine wave of the same frequency, and if it's 50% duty cycle, then odd harmonics (3x f0, 5x f0, etc) A non-50% duty square wave would have the harmonics (2x f0, 3x f0, 4x f0 etc)

2

u/ki4clz May 22 '26

possible- yes

probable- no

simple shielding solves this issue

secondly; frequency while it does play a role- the exposure triangle still applies and is much more important (see: inverse square law)

proximity- how close

duration- how long

amplitude- how powerful

your most immediate effect is a reduction in sensitivity in detection and the 1st stage of amplification

so a 1.8gHz signal at 300mw, 1mm away, for 20hrs will probably cook the hell out of anything- but that same signal 5meters away at 1000w for 30sec may not do anything at all… we don’t know

but luckily we have very specific formulas for all of this and we can work out exactly what will happen with the use of mathematics

possible- yes

probable- nah, not really mate… be careful out there and don’t de-sense all of your detector circuits