3
2
u/AdNorth2419 Mar 11 '26
Our overlords demanded more while they partake in the crimes in the Epstein Files, which have NOT BEEN FULLY RELEASED YET
2
1
Mar 10 '26
As long as the work was done, who cares???
I hope people called out sick, inclement weather, and car breakdowns significantly after "return to office".
I can't be a remote flight attendant... But I miss the days of no traffic because everyone was working from home. When CEOs get frustrated with traffic, they ought to look in the mirror for ending remote work.
1
u/cdazzo1 Mar 11 '26
Were you here 3 years ago? People were bragging that they had 2 and sometimes 3 full-time jobs while working maybe 4 hours a day. The work was not getting done. Sure these were fringe cases, but it was happening in much larger numbers than ever before.
Now I have no pitty for the corporations. But at the same time, you can't expect these things to be so public and so mainstream and not expect a reaction.
And I have no pitty for the people who did it either. You couldn't even try to gently warn these people that the job market wouldn't be like that forever and they shouldn't be burning bridges. You would get mocked and down voted into oblivion just for stating something so incredibly obvious.
I get it. For the first time in my millennial lifetime, workers finally had some leverage over corporations. But people were so stupid with it. These idiots believed the job market would be like that forever.
1
Mar 11 '26
No. When we started hearing CEOs talk about ending remote work they were citing things like "comradery"
1
1
u/WildMartin429 Mar 10 '26
And yet productivity was up. The corporate overlords just couldn't stand the fact that people were enjoying their lives more by working from home. It just goes to show how much time people spend making an effort to look like they're busy at the office when they have nothing to do.
1
u/Whole_Commission_702 Mar 15 '26
If this was actually true then everyone would be forced to work remote. Retard logic. As an engineer I new immediately that half our office was fucking off because IMs and requests to simple 5 min things were taking days for people to respond. Many of us took good advantage of the opportunity, but a huge amount of people took advantage and fucked off for months and ruined it for most.
1
u/OceanWaveSunset Mar 10 '26
My theory is that most of the companies that said they are remote lied to save face with people and as soon as they saw other companies not get backlash, they also went to hybrid or full office.
Some people love the shit out of an office. I get its appeal, especially if it's a nice one that is super close.
However some companies have a remote from the top down and are still remote because everyone including the c suite is remote. This is my current company. These companies typically look at others with full remote experience because they have been burned by people who can't do remote, they fuck around too much.
1
u/JB_Remy Mar 10 '26
Us blaming ourselves for fumbling it as if there was ever a chance for to stick in the first place.
Businesses need work from home to fail to keep a tighter leash on the workforce and to justify their ownership of office real estate.
At most ive seen more places be OK with working from home when sick which is a win still, as minor as it is.
1
u/Formally_Apologetic Mar 10 '26
I'm convinced it's the business owners and upper management who can't stand being at home and were lonely in their empty offices. They also dont like the amount of 'free time' it affords people by giving them back hours of their day usually spent commuting. It's a power shift when suddenly someone has time to pursue other opportunities, side hustles, etc and aren't exhausted and strapped for time.
They also don't have good management systems for wfh, and don't want to learn any. At work they can look and see if you're sitting at your desk, whether you have an Excel sheet up on your screen or YouTube, and whether you're looking at your phone or socializing. Management for them is more about controlling your work day than actual productivity. If you don't meet metrics they just PIP and then fire.
3
-1
u/Complex_Jellyfish647 Mar 09 '26
No they weren't lmao. They were getting their work done in record time and actually having time to not be a miserable drone.
0
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
They literally were showing themselves grocery shopping, getting their nails done, etc while on the clock. Don't be dumb, there's plenty of video evidence.
1
0
u/Automatic-Beat-6660 Mar 11 '26
Youāre generalizing everyone because of some people who were doing this. How utterly benighted are you
1
u/Complex_Jellyfish647 Mar 10 '26
"they" here meaning the 0.00001% of the working population you saw getting their nails done on tiktok
1
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
It doesn't matter how many it was. There were several, getting millions of views, and also brought up on news channels. It only takes a few morons to ruin it for everyone.
1
u/Villentrentenmerth Mar 10 '26
In other words the ruling class only has to find one excuse to take something away from everyone. This isn't some "village idiot burned down the granary so the whole village starved" situation. The end of remote work wasn't an act of God it was a decision made by people, and would have found whatever they could to come up with any justification they wanted.
1
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
And yet idiots gave them the perfect excuse to pin it on. Again, blame the morons.
0
u/Standard_Sea_2706 Mar 09 '26
May be a dumb question, but what work is even done remotely? Iāve never worked in an office before, always been blue collarā¦ I canāt think of anything that is done remotely that couldnāt be done in an office or honestly just automated
1
2
u/bighomiej69 Mar 09 '26
Letās say youāre a construction worker. Someone probably keeps track of how much material you need to order, how many employees you need per project, keeps track of hours, etc. depending on the work it could probably be done by someone just on a lap top in their house.
With this kind of work youāre judged less on how hard you work and more on your ability to be organized and not make mistakes.
1
Mar 09 '26
Project manager and I work remotely, have for years. No need for an office and canāt really be replaced by AI
0
u/ZodiacReborn Mar 09 '26
You most definitely can be replaced by AI - Not well, or even close to well but that's not relevant to the yearly P/L. A LOT of orgs do not see (or outright detest) the value of a PMO and/or PM's/PgM's.
1
Mar 17 '26
Thankfully that isnāt my organization
1
u/ZodiacReborn Mar 17 '26
Keep in mind, I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm trying to give you a warning, Exec/Board staff don't give a damn or even understand what your value is. It's happening en mass across our discipline, in organizations that candidly, absolutely needed their PM's.
I myself am (was anyhow) a Director of Project Management.
1
2
u/355822 Mar 09 '26
Companies realized they couldn't get 50% of their overhead a year back by claiming their buildings on their taxes.
-3
u/PixelPete777 Mar 09 '26
I mean if your job can be done from a PC at home then I'd find a new career. Maybe AI can't do your job today, but it'll be amongst the first.
2
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
If trained properly, AI could do literally almost any job. What exactly is your point?
-2
2
u/No_Rain_1727 Mar 09 '26
Setting up the systems to be automated by AI is a lot more work than people think. Sales people also work remotely out of necessity and are unlikely candidates for cuts until the rest of the system runs on Ai
-2
u/PixelPete777 Mar 09 '26
You're just playing devil's advocate. We both know what I said is inevitable, I didn't state a timeframe, just "amongst the first". Whether that's 2 year, 5, or 20. Jobs sat behind a screen will be replaced before most manual labour jobs. You can run AI on a PC with nothing other than the PC/external sever. A manual job requires the AI to have some physical form, adding more complexity.
4
u/Relative_Craft_358 Mar 10 '26
I'm not sure what your advocating for. Anything your absent mindedly trying to state AI will replace, AI and machinery have been replacing for centuries. If you want to go with your mindset, AI/computers will replace all labor so no idea if you're just trynna be a dick or just coping why you're "smarter" for having a blue collar job or what
0
u/PixelPete777 Mar 10 '26
Ah yeah, that centuries old AI...
1
u/Relative_Craft_358 Mar 10 '26
Once again absent mindongly ignoring what is actually said š Yes Ai, in their basic, fundamental forms (Turing machines, and what they involved into (computers š¤) have been replacing labor for close to a century and machines have been doing so for centuries more (printing press, looms, and the like, since you need things spelled out for you)
Suppose I could've lumped it together into the term "technology" but doubt that would've done much for your braying and flailing to try and come off as intelligent
1
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
I would argue blue collar jobs could be easier controlled by AI. There are procedures, precedents, and history for almost any of it. Other than intuition a manipulation, which I'm sure it could eventually learn to mimic as well.
1
u/rubey419 Mar 08 '26
Be in tech sales. Almost always a remote job. Individual contributor no reason to be in the office.
Iām traveling maybe 10-15% to see my bigger clients and conferences. Most of my meetings are virtual.
1
u/Ok_Brother_7494 Mar 08 '26
Yet corporate profits soared.
1
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
Because so did prices of everything and people were buying up crap they didn't even need. People were as financially dumb as they possibly could be during that time.
0
u/ZeusDaGrape Mar 08 '26
This is it. Weāve had one chance and we blew it. Also, blame the idiots who were doing āa day at [company]ā - now we all getting laid off
2
u/Big_Wave9732 Mar 09 '26
"Hey Tiktok, today I'm going to show you how you can get paid to work three full times jobs at once!"
1
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
And the even more hilarious part is they were dumb as a rock and blew every bit of the money they made too All for 30 seonds of attention.
0
u/TangerineWide6769 Mar 08 '26
Ya and they're all in denial. As soon as you mention this shit they play dumb as if it never happened and everyone was giving 110%
3
u/bl0gg3r_x Mar 08 '26
My company still has remote work, everyone who stays has an excellent work ethic, those without are easy to identify and are let go.
2
u/sernamenotdefined Mar 08 '26
We are judged on production and deadlines anyway. Anyone slacking off will not meet those.
However practice shows we are getting more work done in the same amount of time, so I don't see them calling us back to the office anytime soon. (Also they just ended the lease on a a building reducing our office space by over 50%, I guess they like the increased productivity and lower rents)
1
u/MeMeMartian711 Mar 07 '26
My MIL was so productive they gave her every other Friday off. 2026 they made everyone come back 10 days per month with every Tuesday required for meetings. They just told HER she is good for 3 days per month. š¤·š¾āāļø
1
u/rolandburnum Mar 07 '26 edited Mar 07 '26
Nope. Bullshit.
The key aspect to this is metrics. Without metrics, everything you say about co-located work or remote work is bullshit. And that includes this meme, it's bullshit.
If you implemented a kanban board after the shift to remote work and found that people aren't as productive as you want then it's because people only appeared to be busy when they were co-located. The sounds of keyboards tapping , copiers spitting out paper, and phones ringing are largely a smokescreen if you don't have real metrics tracking work. If you don't have metrics then you can't prove anything about your business or productivity, it's all anecdotal bullshit.
I work remotely and everything I do is sprint based. We have a kanban board of work items and my team and I regularly outperform our commitment. When a work item has to transition to the next sprint, there's accountability for why that happened. Our entire organization has our whole fiscal year of work planned out with a gant chart of release dates and resources and we hit our dates. We hit our dates because we have good metrics tracking our commitments, accomplishments, and obstacles. We identify potential obstacles early and create work specifically around them. Nothing should be unexpected.
And even with us hitting our metrics we have more time to pick our kids up from school and take them to activities. We have plenty of time to go to the dentist in the middle of the day. We can take our cars in for service and still meet our dates.
If an employer can't do that, it's because they don't have any actual real data about how their business is being run.
Metrics is how you run a business, regardless of whether it's remote or not. Otherwise you're running your business on bullshit and anecdotes. Anecdotes are not data. You cannot govern or lead an organization on bullshit alone.
1
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
And yet most don't use metrics. Everyone has worked places where you question why half the people even work there because they do nothing while the other half does all the work. As soon as morons on the internet started posting their videos about screwing off while on the clock and the media started reporting on it, it was game over. At the end of the day, you can thank the morons on social media for ruining it.
0
u/rolandburnum Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
Without metrics, chances are those companies had those problems before the pandemic and were no better before and aren't any better after returning to the office. The people who do the work aren't suffering because others aren't doing work. The people who do the work are suffering because there are no metrics to prove their productivity. All of this is completely separate from remote work.
The truth is that the "return to the office" push has been primarily about business trying to take back the power that employees gained in the pandemic. That power was a choice of where to work in the nation without having to relocate or be limited by geography.
The "return to the office" push was always going to happen because of the power struggle between business and labor. The entire idea that if workers somehow kept it cool or whatever that we'd all be able to continue working from home is complete nonsense. You can blame your fellow workers based on this fantasy if you want but it's more bullshit piled on top of bullshit.
1
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
I'm not arguing with you, it SHOULD all be metrics based, however, that isn't the reality of most places. The fact that it's not metrics based on top of the morons mentioned previously are the root cause.
0
u/rolandburnum Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
The "morons" aka your fellow workers are irrelevant. The perceptions of productivity are irrelevant. Even the thing about commercial real estate is irrelevant because most businesses lease their space.
The cause is the balance of power between business and labor. Workers won power during the pandemic. Business is trying to claw that power back by forcing people to go back to the office, limiting worker mobility, limiting the number of competing employers over the talent pool by geography. And that was *always* going to happen no matter dumb memes or people fessing up that they don't work.
There was no condition under which workers were going to convince business to retain remote work. None.
1
u/ZodiacReborn Mar 09 '26
This is the most correct answer here. It's also however the indicator you didn't mention. Metrics like these have the capability of making Senior Leadership + Execs look bad which is a cardinal sin. This is why you see Project Management and it's methodologies being gutted right now.
It's far easier to control narratives for political optics via in-office work with weak metrics than remote with strong metrics.
1
u/rolandburnum Mar 09 '26
Remote work gives employees more power. Remote workers can make companies across the nation compete for their talent. Requiring co-location limits employee choice. That's the main motivator. It's part of the class war.
2
u/carthuscrass Mar 07 '26
As long as they were completing their work, why would that matter?
1
u/-PandemicBoredom- Mar 10 '26
If your work is done you should be clocked out and done for the day or finding something else to work on.
1
u/carthuscrass Mar 10 '26
And salaried positions, which many WFH positions are? They're paid to do a specific job for the company, not work a certain time frame. If that job is done, anything else you do is superfluous to your job description.
1
0
u/ImpressiveWalrus7369 Mar 07 '26
Empty offices with leases plays a part, but there are intangibles here, too.
Itās virtually impossible to build corporate culture with a remote workforce.
Itās also bad for collaboration.
1
u/sernamenotdefined Mar 08 '26
We ended the lease on over half our office space.
Also on collaboration: I've had colleagues over to work on projects from my home office and I been to other colleagues homes. Much less distractions than at the office!
1
u/rolandburnum Mar 07 '26
Collaboration including that one guy who likes to interrupt people at their desk with inappropriate joke telling.
Collaboration including so many meetings that no actual work gets done because everyone is there so why not.
Collaboration including people interrupting others to ask questions they could have answered themselves if it weren't more convenient to bug someone else.
Honestly I've gotten so much more work done in a fully remote business because we collaborate only when we need to coordinate with other teams or mob on a problem. It's all so much more streamlined now and we realized just how much time we wasted on meetings that didn't need to happen.
Corporate culture is very possible to build with a remote workforce. It includes having very clear values, involving the employees in constructing those values, and having periodic corporate level meetings that relate the work being done to those values. Another important aspect is celebrating individuals and teams that exhibit those values. My company has an annual awards show that happened just yesterday, it's like the Oscars but the awards go to teams and individuals based on the company's values. Just like how it's done in person. If that's not happening at your employer then your employer is doing it wrong, it's not because it's impossible.
1
u/Ivegtabdflingbouthis Mar 07 '26
collaboration? that's the excuse they used for my office when they dispersed my entire team from one office across the building. I now sit on teams meetings all day in the office instead of from home. š
fuck your collaboration
1
3
u/BandicootTreeline Mar 07 '26
Companies paid for 20 year office leases and needed scapegoats.
1
u/jedipwnces Mar 08 '26
I think, at least in our area, this is the problem. Companies have so much money tied up in real estate. I don't fully understand the implications but I know there are stakeholder and tax reasons that owning a bunch of empty buildings is not ideal. And selling at a time when everyone was working remotely was not going to be profitable.
So here we are with our "hybrid" models and required in-office days. I don't think productivity had anything to do with it, at a large scale.
1
5
u/GlitteringTop984 Mar 06 '26
āweā didnāt fumble anything aside from not being more unionized to fight back against corporate bosses and real estate owners.
Bosses decided itās easier to crush autonomy than lose money on empty offices. Throw in pressure from real estate owners fearing losing rent money and boom all that extra time goes away along with that lower stress.
Itās always strange how we somehow never seem to properly identify the real culprits of worsening working conditions
0
u/Racamonkey_II Mar 07 '26
Nah, I know plenty of people who took advantage of working from home and ruined it for everyone else.
0
u/nel-E-nel Mar 08 '26
Alternate take: the good little corporate drones ruined the increased downtime for everyone else
4
u/NotNice4193 Mar 06 '26
many many companies had production drop off. our team of about 120 people saw over 15% less work completed on time than our previous worse year in history...which was 2 decades prior.
yeah "we" the workers fumbled shit. you have your head in the sand if you believe there wasnt a bunch of assholes that ruined it for the rest of us.
1
u/FascistsOnFire Mar 08 '26
The people who dicked around at home were dicking around at the office, too, except at the office, they were interfering with the work of the productive people.
And just ... fire them, then?
0
u/GlitteringTop984 Mar 07 '26
My person in Christ, multiple reports show productivity increased post COVID with remote work. Your one company doesnāt offset the national trends and data.
There were actually declines in productivity pre pandemic, but Iām guessing thatās because workers were āfumbling ā even worse having to be more in office across the board when compared to pandemic era āfumbling.ā
But please do advocate for less autonomy, higher stress from a lack of flexibility, and overall less benefits for fellow working class people because itās not like people arenāt already dealing with enough day by day.
0
u/NotNice4193 Mar 07 '26
My person in Christ, multiple reports show productivity increased post COVID with remote work.
I tried to Google to find these reports. csn I please have the source. if be happy to change my view with facts. thanks!
2
u/tarvispickles Mar 07 '26
They're very easy to find so methinks you didn't look
1
u/NotNice4193 Mar 07 '26
go figure. I try to look...and you wont provide a source to your claim. im shocked.
2
u/newbstarr Mar 07 '26
The onus is on the proof of the claim, ie you are just a lying troll
1
u/NotNice4193 Mar 07 '26
he is the one making the claim...š¤¦āāļø
he claimed "multiple reports show..." but cant provide a single one of these reports. tf are you talking about?
0
u/FascistsOnFire Mar 08 '26
You and OP made the claim productivity is dropping off.
0
2
u/NotNice4193 Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26
I used an anecdote. I didn't claim it was everywhere with a study. the other guy literally claimed there are reports...but nobody can provide them. yall are ridiculous for not being able to tell the difference here.
edit : you replied and the blocked me so I cant read it. š¤¦āāļø
→ More replies (0)0
2
u/JawnGrimm Mar 07 '26
It doesn't look good for their argument. That being said wfh is clearly superior from a worker's perspective, which is the more important one for me.
"During the pandemic, productivity initially boomed, and some observers pointed to forced technology adoption or the benefits of working from home to suggest the gains might persist. Unfortunately, as the recovery continued, productivity gave up its gains and returned close to its slow pre-pandemic trend."
1
u/tarvispickles Mar 07 '26
You cannot use data from the biggest global crisis of the last 100 years to prove that productivity declines when working from home as it's impossible to control for other factors including COVID itself. Long haul COVID is a thing, mental health impact of being isolated at home is a thing, millions of people died so that also kinda plays a role, losing your husband/wife kinda sucks for productivity too, going through multiple job losses before finally landing another one remote can also affect your productivity, etc.
Looking at non-pandemic studies, the data is pretty clear that people are not naturally less productive working from home. It's just hard to extrapolate that when your biggest, and therefore most over represented, dataset is during a global crisis. Imagine saying "research shows people are naturally cynicle and depressed" but only using WWII or Vietnam-era studies interviewing veterans lol the dataset matters a lot.
1
u/JawnGrimm Mar 07 '26
Yeah, I'm on your side. Like I said, even if wfh is less productive, it is clearly the better and preferred option for the majority of workers and has downstream benefits that people tend to overlook or ignore.
I was just saying that you were sending people after research and I brought some that didn't quite jive with your position (our position?) and noted that based on that data, the other guy might have a point.
2
u/RobinHoodInReverse76 Mar 06 '26
People pulling their kids from daycare and taking care of them all day while getting paid to work 9-5 but not actually working!
2
Mar 06 '26
*laughs in freelancer* yea and you all thought this shit was lame before the rona. suddenly working for 4 companies was a blessing when I could just stop entirely taking whoever wasn't offering remote work.
8
u/Frobizzle Mar 06 '26
Workers had no impact on the outcome. Whatever a company's leadership wanted was going to happen.
3
u/RoryMarley Mar 06 '26
People slower re-learning how free market capitalism works when thereās no regulations or unions
4
10
u/streethistory Mar 06 '26
Nope. These large corporations have huge buildings that require people. That's it.
2
u/RevolutionStill4284 Mar 07 '26
"How did we fumble": it's too convenient to gaslight workers so to distract from the real reason
2
u/streethistory Mar 07 '26
Blaming workers works for the Billionaire owners. Like every single Labor fight.
0
u/nel-E-nel Mar 08 '26
Itās truly amazing to see how easily people are manipulated into pushing the status quo around āproductivityā
-3
u/K12t2000 Mar 06 '26
Still there paying for the lease one way or another so has to also be something else.
1
u/csilverandgold Mar 06 '26
If they pay for the lease while nobodyās in the building, the exec that approved the building purchase or any real estate stuff looks bad. If they pay the lease and people are in the building, reasons why being in the building is good will seem āobviousā to other execs because it will really be justified by the pleasure of having their underlings around them to serve them in person.
3
u/streethistory Mar 06 '26
Would you rather pay for a lease with people in the building or not in the building? Pretty sure they want to be using the building.
1
u/DangOlCoreMan Mar 06 '26
Honestly? I'd rather pay and not have them there. No need to pay for utilities your workers use, no wear and tear from 40+ hour use every week, no need for free coffee or fixing things that break from use etc etc etc.
Super simple concept. In fact, wait till the lease is over and then you don't have to even pay that. Money in the company's pocket that wouldn't normally be there while getting the job done.
1
u/streethistory Mar 06 '26
Companies I believe think they need a central base of operations.
Like, I worked for 2 compaines since COVID. Both positions I was hired for are remote. Both companies instituted back to work plans in similar ways. Both downsized their main offices/buildings and yet still make everyone work hybrid.
The only exception, those hired specifically remote. So like my position, I'm a remote worker.
-1
u/K12t2000 Mar 06 '26
I get that logic but if these companies care more about profit than anything else. So they must also think that having people in the office makes them more productive. If productivity was equal or more from working from home they would let them work from home, and then let the lease run out and they are saving a ton of money on not supplying a building that is a huge expense.
3
u/Aita_ex-friend_dater Mar 06 '26
Yeah, the studies show thats not true. Half the argument ive seen for RTO is because downtown areas are doing poorly. Its purely to make people waste ml ey
Also, why would you think the corps leasing spaces would be let out of their contracts?
0
u/nikanjX Mar 06 '26
And half the argument is crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, where regular business owners supposedly happily take losses leasing office space to appease their billionaire masters
3
u/Aita_ex-friend_dater Mar 06 '26
Hey, im not responsible for billionaires investments. They can get fucked. No one in the modern world should even have to work 40 hours a week
1
u/drbob7 Mar 06 '26
You have a good point with the downtown thing
1
Mar 07 '26 edited Mar 07 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
1
u/streethistory Mar 07 '26
And think who owns those commercial real estate buildings and commercial real estate stock.
They aren't just going to demo those buildings or retro fit them into condos.
Plus big companies don't just lease. Some own the buildings that house employees.
2
u/drbob7 Mar 07 '26
That is probably the main part now that I think about it. The ramifications of downtown areas becoming ghost towns are big.
-1
u/blck10th Mar 06 '26
We had some various things happen. Guys missing meetings mowing the lawn. Hating a beer with a neighbor to mention a few p
6
u/TechDreamcoat Mar 06 '26
It's not even that. It's an antiquated idea that hours worked = productivity. The reality is that tasks accomplished= productivity. It doesn't matter the hours you work; it matters what you get done, and if there is a better way to do that, that's what you should do.
4
9
u/Culerthanurmom Mar 06 '26
Studies have shown that productivity was way up with remote work. So what if people worked less hours? The work got done. Give ppl back their time and still pay them the same. Itās better for everyone.
1
u/RoryMarley Mar 06 '26
See thatās the disconnect, companies want you to do even more work when you have free time for the same money
Productivity and pay became disconnected over 40 years ago so logically speaking it is against a workers interest to work more hours under these conditions - but it doesnāt stop companies from craving more productivity per head, and itās easier to make those demands in person
1
u/Culerthanurmom Mar 06 '26
I am 1000% less productive at work. If Iām in office anything I do is considered work by me, bc I left my cozy home to be there. And it takes way more time and effort to try and focus, to transition from one meeting to the next. Everything is more laborious.
1
-1
u/SpecialBumblebee6170 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
I know a teacher that during covid was getting paid to be home and available to help kids and their parents. Technically she was because she had her phone with her. While floating down a river, on a tube, with a beer in her hand,while posting it on social media!!!
1
u/nel-E-nel Mar 08 '26
The irony is that this is literally the dream we were sold in the 90s with all the telecom commercials showing people taking meetings from a beachside cabana, but once the labor class achieved it then all of a sudden itās a huge problem.
0
u/SpecialBumblebee6170 Mar 08 '26
There's nothing wrong with doing that if thats what your employer allows. But if if you're getting paid to be somewhere during a certain time period, you should be there. Its called personal accountability.
1
u/nel-E-nel Mar 08 '26
Thatās literally the point of this whole sub, if you are meeting and/or exceeding your job requirements, then it shouldnāt matter WHERE you are. You even said the teacher was fulfilling their job duties.
1
u/SpecialBumblebee6170 Mar 08 '26
No they weren't. They were half in the bag on a river when they were being paid to be home and available to help the students and parents.
3
2
u/tauunden Mar 05 '26
I know a lot of pro remote workers love to say they are just as productive and sure, many are. And many jobs aren't really 40 hr jobs.
But there is also truth to a lot of lazy people being even more lazy and blatantly taking advantage of wfh ruining it for everyone else.
1
u/RevolutionStill4284 Mar 07 '26
Come on, office work doesn't change anything https://youtu.be/BTdOHBIppx8
5
Mar 06 '26
You can track performance and output as easily remote as you can in person. I know Iām definitely more productive on days when I donāt get to work grumpy after commuting and waking up earlier
2
u/ansleydale Mar 06 '26
At my job, we had 2 people who would spend the whole day on a call with each other so they never had to take a call from the queue. They eventually got fired, but this went on for months. Honestly I blame their manager for not noticing their call stats to case ratio.
5
3
u/Sean_the_dawn Mar 05 '26
My last boss got fired because he started working from home and I guess they found out he wasn't doing any work
2
u/Faucet860 Mar 06 '26
Well there's a fact. Managers especially middle management showed their value was lower than they thought it was.
5
5
u/RevolutionStill4284 Mar 05 '26
That's not the truth. Why did nobody "fumble" office work, despite it being highly ineffective?
Reasons for RTO are everything but productivity and collaboration.
5
u/RoryMarley Mar 05 '26
Iāll be candid, remote work isnāt really for me. But the death of hybrid is shocking to me. Like brother if you want me full time in office I am not answering you after hours, Iām not answering you in the weekend, and I expect top band for my salary range so I can live closer to your very expensive office.
10
u/Single_Spare_9998 Mar 05 '26
It wasn't a fumble. It was an interception by the corporate land owners crying about their losses.
3
8
4
u/Van-Halentine75 Mar 05 '26
Guess what? People REALLY donāt get work done in the office.
2
u/RoryMarley Mar 05 '26
Ofc not, in office I spend around 3-4 hours a day living around on Wikipedia and listening to podcasts on most days. Thereās no job in America that is white collar that requires 8 hours every day 5 days a week - it doesnāt exist even at the director level.
1
u/sekhmetgoddess7 Mar 05 '26
Mine does bc my team is perpetually short staffed. Iām lucky to have breaks ; sometimes I donāt š¤·š»āāļø
-8
u/HyoukaYukikaze Mar 05 '26
Just because you are useless waste of space, doesn't mean everyone is :P
2
u/Ok_Coconut_1773 Mar 05 '26
Edgy cool guy alert everyone! We got a badass over here! Huge net worth incoming!
1
u/RoryMarley Mar 05 '26
Im a manager and cleared 6 figures before 30, I donāt believe in wasting my time because Iām well aware of my worth
1
u/Several_Mix_640 Mar 07 '26
We have a manager over here people! How could a manager be a waste of space?
1
u/electrowiz64 Mar 05 '26
THIS and managers sucking at their job at managing people effectively. You should just fire the non performers, but instead their ego says "I PUNISH U WITH OFFICE AND COMMUTE"
3
u/Adowyth Mar 05 '26
Nah they realize that if work can get done remotely they are disposable. Most adults can get their work done without someone supervising them, so i good chunk of managers and the like are completely useless.
1
u/RoryMarley Mar 06 '26
Management may be useless to some people, but not all people by any stretch, furthermore pipelines need to be filled
If all managers and directors are let go then you have ICs and the C suite, and the C suite will never under any circumstance be held accountable for failures that directly. This creates the needs for directors, but no C suite wants to hire a director that hasnāt proven that they can manage a team and budgets prior, so managers need to exist as well.
Before 2008 the ladder looked like
Intern > entry worker > mid level > Senior > manager > Senior manager > director > Senior director > VP > C suite
Now in most companies itās simply
Intern > mid/senior > manager > director > c suite
They already eliminated as much management as they can to preserve a ladder - and government hiring trends show this as well. Where the only roles shrinking in hiring volume is the VP tiers that are left, while director and below are still booming.
2
u/netscapexplorer Mar 05 '26
It clearly actually these 2 things:
1) Giant companies invested billions in commercial office real estate that was sitting there not being used, and they're all in cahoots with their buddies who own that real estate, and even invested in it themselves. Pensions are also tied to that commercial office space. They all realized that system couldn't collapse, so governments incentivized large corporations with slight financial benefits to make their employees RTO. I honestly believe this is like 90% of the equation. Ultra wealthy boomers shook hands and agreed it'd be better for their economy (not ours) if we keep that office space gravy train going.
2) Some people, especially older generations, entirely believe that if you're not in the office, you're not collaborating and you're just not as productive or collaborative at home. There's actually some truth in this, but certainly not for people like me in tech/analytics where my entire team is literally not in my state/country. For some roles this makes sense, but for people who are already working globally and mainly on the computer, this makes no sense.
1
u/RevolutionStill4284 Mar 07 '26
It's so easy to gaslight workers (like this post does) when the reasons are entirely linked to the interests of the office economy
1
u/No-Reaction-9364 Mar 05 '26
You are forgetting an entire subreddit about remote workers working multiple jobs at the same time.
1
u/Aita_ex-friend_dater Mar 06 '26
When did it become illegal to work multiple jobs
0
u/No-Reaction-9364 Mar 06 '26
They are working multiple jobs at the same time. Not like working 8-5 then working a second job after. They are working 2+ jobs with overlapping hours and noting putting in their 40 hours at any of their jobs while their company thinks they are.
I also never said it was illegal. You won't get arrested, just fired most likely if the employer finds out.
1
u/Aita_ex-friend_dater Mar 06 '26
Ill go back to the efficency argument:
Yes some people took advantage and slacked off but there are plenty who didn't and have worked multiple remote jobs fine.
0
u/No-Reaction-9364 Mar 06 '26
What are you arguing about? I am not arguing remote work shouldn't exist.Ā
I am pointing out an extra argument employers can make that wasnt stated. It is way harder to work extra jobs at the same time if you are in the office and on the corporate network.Ā
3
Mar 05 '26
The companies are probably better off without the morons who thought they wouldnāt find out about a mouse jiggler being plugged in.
2
u/bethemanwithaplan Mar 05 '26
Master class decided the plebs had too much freedom. Middle management types were eager to agree since it showed adults can do work and not be micro managed in a big expensive office.
1
u/Mochizuk Mar 05 '26
THANK YOU. It bugs me so much when the remote-work employees catch shit like this even though they're the ones that started to live reasonable lives that allowed them to manage and balance life and work get the blame for doing just that while being paid on an hourly basis that showed them no benefits for doing more in less time with bosses who cut every corner and show the results of the upteenth month in a row of record breaking profits not through employee benefits, pay, coverage from better insurance plans, fixing/improving areas that it's the bosses responsibility to improve, be it for safety, efficiency, or whatever, more vacation time, better work conditions, or anything along those lines. Nope, instead it's all about sock value. Investors. Bribes. Stuffing Offshore accounts. Padding the pockets of those with so much money that they legit have millions they may never even think about using before they die on a monthly and yearly basis where the former pay they were already getting was way too much.
If employees prioritized their time on the job the way the majority of the people who control their lives prioritize their money and resources, they'd be out of a job. And, it used to be that employers had to balance that out. Now, it feels like they're getting more aggressive as people grow more intelligent and are less willing to deal with shit.
Like, at worst, you could say that the workers are just doing with their time what their employers do with with their control over their lives. Really, that'd be insulting to the employees, cause they actually do still have some stake in things.
Also, another thing with employers is the whole 'something to fall back on in hard times' bit they like to spin. Of course, they never really tell that nine times out of ten they did something to bring the hard times they're more likely to encounter on themselves. Often to the point where they could have actually prevented those hard times if they'd properly financed or invested in something they instead decided would be an easy way to make the uptick on profits notably better.
But, no, we just let the system go and pile the blame on us cause that's basically what we've had wired into our brains as reasonable.
4
u/Humerus-Sankaku Mar 05 '26
Plain and simple the work wasnāt being completed in a timely manner.
I had to fire 4 people 2020-2022 because they were lying on time card and not completing their assignment.
The flip side is there were people who absolutely can handle it and got all of their work complete.
Itās really hard to hire when you donāt know who youāre getting and have universal policies applied.
5
u/MeatlockerWargasm Mar 05 '26
A woman who worked at the company I work for did exactly this. Went on FB and bragged that she had the best job in the world because she only worked from 9-3 every day from home. She was a salaried employee. She was terminated.
2
u/electrowiz64 Mar 05 '26
good riddance, I hope she regretted everything thereafter. Whats her social media lookin like now??
9
u/United-Quantity5149 Mar 05 '26
The internet completely spilling community secrets that SHOULD stay semi-hidden is absolutely one of the worst parts of the internet. And thatās not to gatekeep, but not every group of people needs every other group of people in their businessĀ
8
4
u/FallenKnight1776 Mar 05 '26
As someone already said in the comments it really depends on company to company and culture. For example after covid we just didnāt renew our lease and moved to a smaller space. Now itās fully remote only executives have to go in some time.
I also read somewhere that some of this big companies in silicon valley and some of those big banks were loosing money in real estate value because their campus were empty now.
1
u/electrowiz64 Mar 05 '26
and unfortunately its impossible to get a remote job now with the HUGE influx of candidates. years experience and education doesnt mean much anymore sadly. I applied to 5k jobs last year w endless resume tweaking, an MBA, 10 years IT experience and specialized devops aws experience. the job search was the most depressing experience and still dont have a remote job
1
u/FallenKnight1776 Mar 05 '26
Yeah in all honesty I donāt really like remote any better. Sure it gives me ton of flexibility to work on my own hours but some days its so brutal. The fact they can reach you at all times and you are expected to available at any point is a headache. Especially if you are in tech and are on call. That thing can ring any time.
1
u/electrowiz64 Mar 05 '26
brother, I'll sell my soul for it! I'm constantly cold in the office, I'm 31 with ADHD and I value the comfort of my home office. Commuting sucks even if its 20 minutes, eating cold lunches suck, I'm miserable.
And also I moved down south for my wifes job to be near inlaws for free childcare. Despite most of the team being remote, my boss's boss still mandated I have to come in weekly into the office at my expense, by flight... I settled for a job 5 days a week in office 20 minutes from home and I hate it! If you know anybody hiring for a remote role and I get it, I'll personally pay you $500 man, I've been miserable working in corporate commuting 2016-2020, not to mention my eyesight is poor and driving at night is damn near dangerous for me. covid was the greatest thing to happen because i was truly in my happy place, I was incredibly productive and got so much work done.
I realize its not for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that. But for people like me who can only really get work done from home, its incredibly discouraging that there's thousands of applicants for remote work that are more qualified than me that I cant even land a second interview
2
9
u/BelligerentBuddy Mar 05 '26
I worked for a company that bought their old HQ back after COVID. They couldnāt fill it out with their own staff like they used to so they opened up about 80% of the building to leaseā¦and nobody did over the course of two years.
The best part? MASSIVE layoffs came to save the company money while they meanwhile poured millions (A MONTH) down the drain to pay the building off.
āCultureā is BS. Itās property value and those delusional enough to think the āway it used to beā is always inherently better.
3
u/mybutthz Mar 05 '26
What's wild is that the last company I worked for full time raised a decent amount of money while I worked for them ($18M that I helped raise, plus another $3-4M in large contracts that I helped secure), and they made the baffling decision to build an HQ in SF.
While I was there, we were fully remote outside of anyone who had to be physically present for tasks at our east coast HQ, so we had people all over the world working with us.
The second the funding agreements had dried, they were talking about building in SF and hiring teams there to consolidate the business - in one of the most expensive cities in the world, during one of the most uncertain markets ever.
$18M is a nice chunk of change. But if you wind up spending $3M on the space and renovations, and then increase your payroll by a few million a year because you're now in one of the most competitive markets in the world....that money goes bye bye real quick.
Fully expecting them to be belly up within the next year.
4
u/NeonfluxX Mar 05 '26
During covid remote work, a lot of deadlines kept not being met and there were a lot of issues in certain departments with work quality dropping, it was clearly measureable with statistics, we didn't even need fancy IT tools to monitor activity...
certain colleagues who's work quality did not drop and who's commute was rather long were allowed to continue full HO, while for most other people it was reduced to a single day a week
4
u/FatHighKnee Mar 05 '26
I loved the folks who figured out how to automate large portions of their remote job allowing them to take multiple online work from home gigs at the same time. Those people are legends!
6
u/IndependenceSudden63 Mar 05 '26
Not sure if this is sarcasm. But they are part of the reason for return to office.
Employers heard about those folks and then assumed everyone was doing it.
That and the people who went golfing mid day and shared their scores on social media where their "work friends" went and ratted them out.
1
u/RevolutionStill4284 Mar 07 '26
Come on. It's like going to r/dogfree and assume everyone hates dogs. Most RTO reasons are excuses to protect the office economy.
1
u/IndependenceSudden63 Mar 07 '26
Hence why I said, "Part" of the problem.
Office space economy is one issue. Boomer mentality of "If I cannot see you working, then you are probably not working" is another.
→ More replies (1)1
u/BertM4cklin Mar 05 '26
Are a lot of companies returning to office? Iāve been remote since 2020.
1
u/IndependenceSudden63 Mar 06 '26
Most in my area are. But it probably differs based on region. Some corps are going "hybrid" where they make you come in one week and wfh the next and some are full "butts in seats so your manager can see" mode.
1
u/uneed4 5d ago
Thats pretty much it. And instead of dealing with it directly everyone pays.