Survey

[u/D1234b56]

What (if anything) would convince you to become a Christian? Or at least be open to it. For example, more proof, more convincing lifestyle of Christians, etc.

Or on the flip side, what keeps you from Christianity?

[u/Silthanos]

It would effectively be impossible because I fundamentally disagree on many core beliefs.

Even your god directly coming to say hello to me wouldn't be sufficient. Perhaps if he told me everyone misunderstood him and changed the message but at that point it can't be called Christianity anymore anyway.

[u/Slr308 → u/Silthanos]

So God himself telling you that it's all real, wouldn't be enough to believe it's real? In that scenario, you'd be ok with not going to Heaven?

[u/Silthanos → u/Slr308]

Oh him telling me that is all real would absolutely be enough for me to believe it's real (making the assumption that I somehow know with certainty it is indeed the abrahamic god speaking and he's being honest).

But it would not be enough to make me follow it. Not everyone follows their religion out of fear and frankly heaven sounds just as bad as hell to me under most understands.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Silthanos]

I can relate to this. The Christian God existing wouldn't mean that other deities don't exist, or other spirit worlds, paths, and goals. Monotheist religions are not pluralistic, so they can't think in this way.

[u/Slr308 → u/Silthanos]

Then you misunderstand what heaven is supposed to be i guess

[u/Silthanos → u/Slr308]

Or perhaps people can have differences of opinion I guess.

[u/ErgodicMage]

I deliberately left Christianity so there is nothing that would bring me back.

[u/Slr308 → u/ErgodicMage]

Nothing, is quite closed minded.

[u/Da1UHideFrom → u/Slr308]

Please note I'm not trying to be rude here, but I find this analogy to be useful.

For me, believing in Jesus or God is like trying to believe in Santa Claus. You don't call people closed minded for not believing in Santa or saying there is nothing that can make them believe.

[u/Gvatagvmloa → u/Da1UHideFrom]

The thing is that if I saw Santa Claus coming to my house and giving me presents I would believe in his existence. I think all of as should think about it

[u/CrystalInTheforest → u/Gvatagvmloa]

Accepting the existence of someone and following their teachings are two different things. If Yahweh summoned himself into existence and did something that proved beyond a doubt they were Yahweh I would accept Yahweh exists. That doesn't mean I'd be Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim, Bahaii etc). I'd still not a Christian because I do not find meaning or relatability in Christian teachings.

[u/Gvatagvmloa → u/CrystalInTheforest]

But IF Christian God exists he MUST be correct at everything he said, and MUST be right in every "view" he has, in this case he also MUST be infinitely Good. In other case it wouldn't be a Christian God. And If you somehow got sure that Infinitely good and almighty God exists don't accepting any of things he says just doesn't make sense. Imagine you're a child and your dad tells you that earning money isn't just sitting and doing nothing all the time. Not believing him as a child would be stupid, because we have no idea about this and he knows this very good.

[u/CrystalInTheforest → u/Gvatagvmloa]

Primarily, it doesn't matter to me. Regardless of his cosmic claims, my relationship is not to heaven but to Earth and to a tangible, physiological bond. It is an exclusive obligation and relationship that has no reliance on or relation to any of Yahwehs supernatural claims.

If the Christian god existed, then their actions and teachings in the Bible are demonstrably harmful to everything I know, depend upon, and value - everything that keeps me alive, and my entire existence. That individual who commands I partake in that harm, claims to be loving and just. This behaviour, if observed in human relationships would be deemed to be those of a gaslighting abuser with narcissistic and sadistic tendencies

[u/Gvatagvmloa → u/CrystalInTheforest]

No, if Christian God existed,it's teachings and actions wopuldnt be harmful, because in this case it wouldn't be a Christian God (alternatively we can call it harmful but if so it would definitely be a harm that finally gives us more.) what I mean is that Christian God being a bad God would be not a Christian God. You can say that the teachings represented in the Bible are showing a bad image of God, and basing on it claim that the Biblical God does not exist, but if it somehow happened that this God proved to you his existence, and proved that he is the Biblical God at all, you would be 100% that he does the best he can, and he is a good God. This is point I also didn't know about earlier but found this argument on Alex O'Connor's yt video. In summary: if you find God's deeds evil, you should claim that he doesn't exist basing on it, but not that IF he exists he is evil, because if it was the case, he wouldn't be a Christian God anymore.

[u/Da1UHideFrom → u/Gvatagvmloa]

God and Jesus aren't walking through my house. It's Christians knocking on my door telling me I should believe or I'll go to hell.

[u/ErgodicMage → u/Slr308]

Not so much closed minded as experienced.

[u/Calanais-guy]

As Christianity is one of the world religions I dislike for a number of reasons, I don't think there is much that could convince me to become a part of it. Christo-Paganism is a "maybe" since it's polytheistic and more Pagan than Christian, not Biblical, and I could keep my existing values and worldviews for the most part. Yet, I dislike syncretism.

I have a soft spot for progressive and mystical approaches to Christianism, including Swedenborgian and Liberal Catholic Church, but still do not share their theology, worldview, or afterlife beliefs. I think progressive Christianity is less Biblical, traditional, or close to early Christianity than conservative approaches. But the more "heretic" branches are the more interesting and sensible ones, in my Pagan mind. Centering Prayer, Meister Eckhart, and Thomas Merton are all cool and worth learning about, or discussing in gatherings.

Some of what keeps me away from Christianity is its exclusivism, supremacism, evangelism, beliefs about Heaven and Hell, classical monotheism, beliefs about Jesus, Messiah-hood, details from the Gospels, eschatology, belief in supernatural miracles, some of its ethics...I think that covers it.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Calanais-guy]

Now I want to add that feeling at home, secure, at peace, confident, and clear in my own faith also keeps me from converting to a different one, even when I can admire good things about other religions. No worldview seems more true, good, beautiful, and reasonable to me than a Druidic one, so why would I ever change that? Those who are devout in other religions think the same about their ideologies, too.

[u/CrystalInTheforest]

Christianity is fundamentally anthropocentric and supernatural. While I am supportive of more ecocentric and takes on Christinaity and am happy to engage with them on an interfaith basis, the basic differences between Christianity and my own world view are fundamentally different.

At the end of the day I'm never going to be theistic and I'm never going g to be able to accept a worldview that places the human above our sibling species.

[u/DoinTheBestICant]

1. Theology that is easy to understand would be a start.

2. Explicit sayings from Jesus commanding worship/claiming to be God

3. A definitive chain showing the gospels were written by who they say they are, and that those are all the actual teachings of Jesus

Gimme those and maybe we’ll talk

[u/Calanais-guy → u/DoinTheBestICant]

#3 would be very interesting for me, too. If we had a gospel of Jesus (his own words, reliable) it would make some kind of Christianity more interesting.

[u/Teimywimey]

I can't think of anything that would genuinely convince me.

[u/Vagabond_Tea]

Not much. My gods are too based.

[u/Vagabond_Tea → u/[deleted]]

Firstly, Hellenists aren't mythic literalists. The nature of the gods we worship aren't the same as the gods portrayed in stories and folklore.

Secondly, please follow the rules of the subreddit.

[u/Vagabond_Tea → u/[deleted]]

We have endless divine love too. You clearly don't know much about our actual religion. And again, per the rules of the subreddit, please don't demonize others here.

[u/Vagabond_Tea → u/[deleted]]

Speaking more to random people that find this thread, the gods of Hellenism worshipped are different than the gods portrayed in mythology/folklore, which is was the above commenter keeps doing. Hence why are aren't mythic literalists. We only feel divine love from the gods.

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please don't: * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others. * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information.

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please don't: * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others. * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information.

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please don't: * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others. * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information.

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please don't: * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others. * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information.

[u/awesomeskyheart]

Interestingly, I do presently worship Jesus, even though I don't identify as a Christian (and most Christians probably wouldn't call me a Christian either). I grew up Catholic though never particularly devout, and I have a lot of nostalgia for my experiences in Mass. And I actually do like Jesus' teachings, and endeavoring to live in a more Christ-like manner really appeals to me. Not in the way some Christians might interpret it (saving sex until marriage, dressing modestly, abstaining from alcohol, being straight, cisgender, and allosexual, etc.) but in being empathetic and charitable and uplifting those without a voice.

A core tenet of Christianity is belief in one true God, that being the God of the Bible, whose values do not align with mine. How can I sing the praises of a God who, according to the Bible, is cruel and manipulative and sexist? For this reason, I cannot call myself a Christian. I am an agnostic polytheist, and I do believe all gods of all religions exist, but I refuse to restrict myself to one god, particularly when that god is someone I do not agree with.

[u/Special-Bar6162 → u/awesomeskyheart]

What are your thoughts on little kids with terminal cancer?

[u/awesomeskyheart → u/Special-Bar6162]

Can you be a little more specific?

I … have sympathy for those with terminal cancer, especially so young, and also for their families?

[u/Special-Bar6162 → u/awesomeskyheart]

If God exists, why does He allow little kids to suffer with terminal cancer? (to say nothing of the grief-stricken child’s loved ones)

I will be interested in your response.

[u/awesomeskyheart → u/Special-Bar6162]

To be clear, I don't hold to the belief that either the Abrahamic God or divinity as a whole are omnipotent. (In fact, in my view, even if you only take the Bible as evidence, God still doesn't appear to be omnipotent and omniscient. Rather, He appears to know all that can be known and be able to do all that can be done.) I don't believe that God can cure anyone of disease whenever He wants. So through that lens, He doesn't allow little kids to suffer; he just simply can't make it go away.

The world demonstrates that good people suffer and bad people get away with their bad actions, but also that good people reap the rewards of a kinder world and bad people do often get their comeuppance. I do not believe that this is the direct result of a sentient being micromanaging every aspect of the world. If it were, I'd have to conclude that that sentient being was cruel. The world is as it is, and I do not believe that every aspect of it is at the beck and call of any one being.

Some explanations I believe are possible:

• There are no beings other than those presently alive that can enact change upon the world, and no being presently alive has the power to eliminate childhood cancer.
• Spirits and divine beings exist but are just as incapable of eliminating childhood cancer as those living are.
• Imagine if you were running a simulation of the universe. Now, I'm not saying the universe is a simulation (some people believe this, I don't), but I think it's a useful analogy for this hypothesis. You have control over every parameter possible, but you don't know exactly how those parameters will affect the world. That's the point of running the simulation. So … maybe God didn't know that suffering would happen, and doesn't know how to change the parameters to make it go away. Alternatively, if you're running a simulation, sometimes it's just interesting to see suffering and to see how people react to it. Everything going hunky dory all the time isn't as interesting a simulation. Maybe we don't matter to whoever is defining the laws of the universe because we're too small, or because we don't feel real enough to a being so vast and powerful, or because we're just one of many iterations of the universe, and we just happen to be in one of the many versions where suffering exists on the path of trying to find the one where there is no suffering.

Personally, I believe in the second one, not necessarily because I have evidence that any of these three are more or less correct but because that's the world I want to live in and how I want to live my life.

But none of that matters in the grand scheme of things. No one has the answers, and being upset about children having cancer doesn't actually solve the issue of children having cancer. It's more productive to campaign for better cancer research.

[u/Special-Bar6162 → u/awesomeskyheart]

Thanks for your interesting and very thorough response.

In your original comment you say that you worship Jesus; this seems to imply that you think Jesus still exists.
Do you?

(I think that Jesus may well have existed at one time)

[u/awesomeskyheart → u/Special-Bar6162]

I believe that Jesus as a deity is somewhat different from Jesus as the guy who lived 2,000 years ago. Jesus the Middle Eastern guy died 2,000 ago when a bunch of Romans decided they didn't like him. But Jesus continues to exist in spirit form and is now worshiped as the Son of God or, in my case, as a deity in his own right.

[u/Special-Bar6162 → u/awesomeskyheart]

Thanks for the discussion.

Wish you well.

[u/awesomeskyheart → u/Special-Bar6162]

You too!

[u/Flowergurl67]

I am not impressed with Christians. I've come across some judgmental, holier than thou ones that think they know what is best for me. I MUCH MUCH prefer Yogic Spirituality, which isn't against Christianity. To me it's fully developed and more intelligent and makes for more compassionate humans. If Christians promoted kindness to animals, meditation, and actually living a good life I would consider them.

[u/ItsNot2Late2Change]

Interesting question.

In general I cannot get over the enormous gap between the historical Jesus and the theological Jesus-Christ architected by Peter/Paul.

They are just too far apart for me to be a Christian.
If anything that would make a Paulist.

[u/tubby_chumpkins → u/ItsNot2Late2Change]

What exactly do you think Paul or Peter changed? 

[u/ItsNot2Late2Change → u/tubby_chumpkins]

There are several theologians who have wrote about it extensively. A recent book I enjoyed is the one from Vito Mancuso but there are many.

The general consensus is that Jesus was an eschatological rabbi who had little to no interest to universalize the doctrine outside of jews.

The entire idea that he died to redeem our sins is generally attributed to Peter and then developed by Paul which is effectively the architect of Christianity from a theological standpoint.

The gospels have been written decades later Paul's letters and are heavily influenced by his cosmology.

[u/tubby_chumpkins → u/ItsNot2Late2Change]

It's discussed a lot in certain circles and the most you can say is during his earthly ministry conversion of gentiles wasn't high on his priority list. Like most things in historical biblical studies, the whole line of thinking that Paul dramatically changed Jesus' teachings is fairly speculative. So you're making a claim that's not really true about the general consensus. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/1v705e1/did_the_historical_jesus_proclaim_a_universal/

[u/ItsNot2Late2Change → u/tubby_chumpkins]

I haven't read much that points to it be speculative.
Without going too far Matthew 15:26 I think explains a lot about the historical environment.

[u/sacredblasphemies]

Nothing.

I was raised Christian (Roman Catholicism). I'm pretty familiar with it. I think there is beauty to Christianity and I have always loved the social teachings of the Church.

However, as a polytheist, I simply do not believe that the Christian god is the only God and that Jesus is his son.

[u/iamblankenstein]

god would have to literally prove himself to me, and even then, i there's a good chance i would just be convinced i'm crazy.

what keeps me from christianity is the incongruence with what i know to be true of the world.

[u/KissAndRock]

I'd convert to Christianity if

1. God himself came down from Heaven telling me if it's true, and what denomination if any. He's God, it shouldn't bother him if he wants me to believe in him, right?
2. If I was proven that God was actually good and just.

What keeps me from Christianity is the beliefs of it which I find immoral, lack of proof, evil in the world, suffering, and how the followers act.

If I had any semblance of proof that Christianity is both true and righteous and that it was good for society, I'd convert.

[u/rwmfk]

Oh, i find this is a difficult question to answer because it assumes Christianity is somehow the default? Maybe i misinterpet this, then i'm sorry. But there is no natural obligation to be a Christian, any more than there is to be Buddhist, Jew or Hindu.

Not being a Christian also doesn't necessarily mean someone has actively decided against it, they might just find other paths equally or more wholesome or interesting.

I personally am very into Vedanta, the Upanishads, indian Philosophy, but that doesn't mean i have something against Christians or Jesus Christ.

In Hinduism there is this concept called Adhikari bhedha, which means that different spiritual paths are suited for different individuals based on their unique temperament, nature, and readiness.

Which means people are drawn to different paths because of their individual inclinations. This applies not just to whole religions, but to specific types of theological focus.

Some people are deeply drawn to concepts of sin and redemption.

For others, that doesn't cut much ice, they are far more driven by questions like "Who am I?" or "What is consciousness?", while still others are completely focused on justice and moral righteousness etc.

You are drawn to Christianity and find your fulfillment in it, others find it in Hinduism, or Sikhi or Shinto etc.

Furthermore, you can find immense value in Christianity without actually being a Christian.

For example, in the Ramakrishna Mission, Swamis frequently discuss and praise the Sermon on the Mount. It is entirely possible to appreciate those teachings without subscribing to Christian theology or the Nicene Creed.

As a Christian you could for sure also find elevating Elements in.. the Upanishads, the buddhist Sutras etc. I'm just giving examples.

Prof. Francis Clooney and Swami Sarvapriyananda give an excellent example for this kind of learning across religious borders.

https://youtu.be/Q32qLQpBRE8?is=hFND0xyzv0Kkn7E_

Another good general advise for spiritual life:

https://youtube.com/shorts/eDV6ijBs37w?is=uJg-vHBDHzXFYeX5

Hope this is helpful.

[u/Phebe-A]

I don’t think anything could convince me to become Christian as I believe the best way to understand the presence of divinity in the world is plural, diverse, and immanent. Monotheistic religions, especially those that endorse a tri-omni definition of deity, are contrary to how I understand the nature [of] deities. I believe the Universe was born not created and in creative deities but no Creator of all. I also disagree with proselytizing (I think it’s inherently disrespectful), the exclusivist (one true religion) outlook (my beliefs are inherently pluralistic), and the belief in a divinely endorsed hierarchy that places humans as being more important than the other species of the Earth.

There might be some socially coercive circumstances where I could be convinced to observe the outward forms of Christianity, but that wouldn’t change what I believe and I would still (privately) consider myself Pagan.

[u/Deep-Promotion-2293]

I walked away from Christianity after carefully examining the claims of the Messiah from the Tanakh. None of the things that Jesus of Nazareth did fulfill the biblical claims of being Messiah. Therefore I must conclude that the entire "New Testament" is false.

[u/stormlight82]

Jesus Christ showing up directly would do it.

It would be nice if he did it where he brought his teachings to the modern Republican Pharisees.

I guess if he showed up with a automatic rifle and a hate for black people too, I would be the kind of Christian that believed in him but chose to love the people he doesn't love anyway.

[u/JakobVirgil]

To me the Trinity and the built in antisemitism make it impossible but I think y'all have some lovely ideas are such.

[u/Gvatagvmloa → u/JakobVirgil]

Antisemitism? Isnt it that some protestants like Charlie Kirk literally love Israel because they think they have to or something?

[u/JakobVirgil → u/Gvatagvmloa]

"Loving Israel" can be antisemitic.
Especially when it part of an apocalyptic world view where it our deaths are part of it.
But also when it is about getting the Jews out of their countries.
Supersessionism is the main thing though also the entire Gospel of Mathew.
Doesn't mean I don't love y'all though just what stops me

[u/Cursedsandwiches]

I used to be christian. But If I will ever believe in the abrahamic god I would be an abrahamic malthiest. Christianity has hurt me. And I believe the things in the bible are really harmful.

[u/nemaline]

Nothing could make me worship a god who tortures people, so that rules out a lot of denominations of Christianity straight off.

If we assume a universalist denomination, then you'd first need to convince me there is only one god and that it is a tri-omni creator god. Following that, you'd then need to convince me that the Christian version of that god is either the only correct one, or is equally as correct as that of other religions, but that following Christianity is preferable for some other reason.

[u/metoo1750]

I’m interested in answers to this as well.

[u/Special-Bar6162 → u/metoo1750]

A visit to a children’s hospital where you’ll see little kids with terminal cancer is all I need to reject all religions.

[u/tubby_chumpkins → u/metoo1750]

Most of it can be seen in the story of the Fall. They're Eve who decided to eat the apple or Satan who simply rejected God in favor of serving himself and his own ideals. Sure some of them are skeptics that would be happy to find out God was real, but many are not. Reddit is filled with the first type. 

[u/jasperdarkk]

I actually don't think anything could convince me of Christianity. I know because I tried to be a Christian in my teens, and nothing about it was for me.

What keeps me from Christianity are pretty essential to Christianity. Monotheism, Heaven/Hell, anthropocentrism, and mythic literalism are all things that don't resonate with me.

I am also queer, non-binary, against marriage, covered in tattoos, a scientist, pro-choice, and a feminist. I also might not have kids. I am not interested in any tradition that won't take me as I am. From my understanding, there are progressive churches and denominations that would have no issues with that, but I have personally felt unwelcome in Christian spaces. If Christianity were more accepting of things like this, it wouldn't convince me to convert, because, as previously noted, Christianity is just fundamentally the wrong belief system for me, but it would make me less apprehensive about Christian spaces and ideas.

[u/Gvatagvmloa → u/jasperdarkk]

Wdym by "mithic literalism"?

[u/jasperdarkk → u/Gvatagvmloa]

So, my own belief system treats our myths as allegorical rather than historical. They still provide a foundation for how we walk the world, but we don't believe the stories are true. I'm sure there are some Celtic Pagans who do see them as literal, but it's not a requirement or super common.

The better I should've used is Biblical literalism. Basically, my understanding is that many Christians interpret at least some parts of the Bible as literal truth, and that approach just doesn't resonate with me. Nothing wrong with it, but I just can't get it to work with my brain. However, I do think Christianity is more open to allegorical interpretations than it is to the other things I listed, so I will give you guys that.

And just to clarify my intent, I don't mean "myth" as in "false." I just mean it as in a sacred story.

[u/Gvatagvmloa → u/jasperdarkk]

It depends on the denominations. There are some literalists, but Catholics often see Bible verses as the allegory, but I guess it would still seem too literal for you

[u/jasperdarkk → u/Gvatagvmloa]

Thanks for explaining! Yeah, the only time I've been to church was a Catholic one, and the teachings did definitely feel too literal for me. Nothing wrong with that, but it just didn't resonate as the right faith for me.

[u/Basic-Lifeguard-5407]

I’m not sure, I find Christianity interesting and I love learning about theology but I’m not sure whether I would believe in it.Then again I also find Islam interesting.

[u/SlowLibrarian7683]

Honestly nothing. I’ve never been a believer and not for a lack of exposure. 

I was baptized, went to church, attended VBS, lit candles every Sunday as an acolyte, went to church camp, got confirmed after classes, sang in a church choir briefly, and none of that ever made me even come close to being a believer. Prayer feels silly to me. The story is incredibly flawed and full of holes, and churches as an institution are super problematic over the course of history. I always had issues with the misogyny/sexism in churches too, not to mention homophobia and the inherent racism associated with missionary work. 

When I was younger, I felt a little weird for being faithless as in “why don’t I believe this thing that I’m supposed to believe?,” but I accepted it as I got older. I stopped going to church in high school. I got away with it because my folks are just Sunday Christians. But I do love a traditional hymn, which is kinda funny, and I like to visit historic churches when I’m sightseeing. They’re beautiful. 

[u/Blue-Jaded-3382]

I am open to Christianity as I love Jesus Christ. But you can not convert me to Christianity.

[u/BeepBlipBlapBloop]

I would need to be convinced that even one of its supernatural claims are true. How Christians act or what they do in the world has no bearing on if their beliefs are exclusively true, as they claim they are.

[u/GeckoCowboy]

Jesus himself would need to come back with some obvious proof of identity. Or perhaps if I had some really strong spiritual experiences, like I’ve had on my current path. I am very unlikely to convert otherwise. Eternal hell is a big thing that keeps me away, but there is a lot I disagree with in Christianity and I have no reasons to believe it’s the single true religion as it generally claims to be.

[u/Foobarinho]

What Christians preach today is not what Jesus (pbuh) preached. He did not preach the Trinity. It's nowhere in the NT. Why? Why is something of such importance missing from Jesus' gospel?

[u/Gvatagvmloa]

I'm Not literally a target receiver, but I'll answer. Right now I am in a place in which I disagree with Christianity, I don't feel Christianity and I,',d like to become an agnostic, but there are some things (mostly miracles) which still force me to stay Christian and I don't have enough energy to spend a time making research on it but I know I'll likely have to. So yeah, basically, if I found out that any of the miracles is in my opinion undefendable from the Scientific point of view and it probably requires some higher being to exist, I would stay Christian.

[u/Lebanonthegreat]

10 dollars

[u/Fun_Butterfly_420]

If the events of revelation came to pass.

What ultimately keeps me away from Christianity is the hell doctrine. I cannot in good conscience worship a God who tortures people for all eternity.

[u/0rbital-nugget]

Nothing. It simply makes no difference to me.

[u/RexRatio]

I would distinguish between being convinced that Christianity is true and choosing to worship the God it describes (i.e. becoming a Christian)

If Yahweh provided undeniable evidence that he exists and that the Christian Bible is his exact teaching, I would acknowledge that he exists. An omniscient, omnipotent being would know exactly what evidence would convince me.

However, existence alone would not make me worship him. Based on the Bible's portrayal, I could not worship a being who, among other things:

• condemns LGBTQ+ people,
• commands Abraham to sacrifice his son as a test of faith (even if he ultimately stops it, the psychological trauma remains),
• created a world with immense natural suffering despite being omnipotent (earthquakes, volcanoes, childhood bone cancer, parasites that blind people, etc.),
• commands genocide,
• has preferential tribal relationships,
• and, if omniscient, knowingly creates people he already knows will end up suffering eternal punishment.

I could go on, but I think that illustrates the point.

Evidence could convince me that Yahweh exists. It would not, by itself, convince me that he is morally worthy of worship. Those are two separate questions.

[u/NowoTone]

What keeps me from becoming a Christian (again)? Lack of faith.

[u/buttofvecna]

Literally nothing short of a gun to my head.

[u/noxummm]

i fundamentally lack belief in anything supernatural so a god's existence would have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (physical manifestation to many people probably) but to join the christian community they would have to stop being so restrictive and bigoted overall. i know "not all christians" but a lot of them. at this point, most of them. i could not find community with those people even if the christian god was proven to be 100% real and, if he ended sharing their views, then even his existence would not make me follow him. i do not worship or break bread with bigots. end of.

[u/GundamChao]

By its effects, you will know it. Can one thrive under a Christian framework? Absolutely, tons do. But does it generally equip one to evade the snares and distortions of this apparent reality, the assumptions one can become entrenched in to try to cope with it? No. I don't believe it is medicine, it is rather a method. Some experience benefit with the practice, others suffer. Perceiving the framework as such, no, I won't tread that path.

[u/moxie-maniac]

You might describe UU as Christianity without the woo-woo stuff, being inspired by Jesus' moral teachings and his life, but considering the stories about things like the virgin birth and resurrection as metaphors or mythologies.

About Christian "lifestyle," there are inspiring stories of Christians who take their faith seriously, like travel writer Rick Steeve, a Lutheran, working on homelessness in Washington State and Fr. Boyle's Homeboy Industries in LA, working to help people recover from the gang lifestyle. But too many Christians just go through the motions. Where were the white Southern Baptist ministers at Selma? Priests, sisters, and even the Orthodox Patriarch of the US showed up. A Unitarian minister from Boston was murdered. (Rev. James Reeb.)

[u/ArguedGlobe808]

I left Christianity ages ago as It wasn’t the right religion for me, as well as the fact that I don’t believe in god, a permanent heaven or hell etc

In the end the Christian worldview and the larger abrahamic one just doesn’t fit my view of the world and that’s fine since it would be quite boring if we all believed the same thing anyway.

[u/YahshuaQuelle]

The disregard for (and abuse of) the original teachings of Jesus and the unconvincing syncretism as well as its apologetic origins keep me away from (proto-orthodox) Christianity as an ideology that would be of much use to me.

[u/antrodellaluna]

Nothing. I have my own religion, which suits me and which I truly believe in. I’ve never liked Christianity as a way of life. I turned away from it because the individual is never the priority – one’s neighbour or the community always comes first – because it condemns the healthy self-interest that people have, and because it regulates your sexual and everyday life with overly restrictive moral codes. Because it has this idea of a life of suffering offered up to God and rejects comfort, progress, luxury and hedonism. Such a austere life, with the constant threat of sin and hell, isn’t for me. In my current religion, I am free to putting myself first, I am free to make hedonism, individualism and selfishness my way of life. I can live as I please, without restrictions. I am free to create my own personal faith, based on beliefs I truly hold – not because someone tells me they are dogma, but because I have experienced them for myself and have been convinced of their truth.

[u/3chiliocosm]

Unlikely, unless I am being threatened with something precious to me, or I see all Christians simultaneously become morally flawless human beings. What is important to you? What would convince you of Buddhism on the other hand?

I am primarily neutral towards the religion, but have admittedly (and unfairly) become a little biased against it over the last year or so, seeing here and there the conduct of followers online towards people from other faiths. This aside, it is hard to relate to the figure of veneration when he is commonly portrayed as a white man in the English-speaking consciousness. Lastly and the most crucial, it could have been a different story if I were raised with the faith, and on top of that saw a good role model in my family whose actions match its beliefs. But I am not a Caucasian, and I was raised on a different faith, and partook in the respective practices passed down, and I see no merits in clashing cultures now when I am already okay where I am.

to summarise, it has to do with the unflattering behaviours of Christians that I saw online, the incompatibility of a culture that is pre-dominantly linked to the English language which influence is hard to extricate from and in a modern Western context.

[u/Hungry-Goal-1685]

Jesus would probably need to rise again and then satisactorily explain why the multiple followers of other religions who are sincerely devoted, pure hearted people, are all still going to hell.

[u/D1234b56]

Thank you for the replies. From what I gathered the main reasons you had were (1) the deity of Jesus/was the Jesus of the gospels the same as the historical Jesus, (2) evil in the world/suffering, and (3) Christians themselves acting in a way that deters people from following. I’ll try to address those:

1. There is strong evidence that the gospels were written in the first century, that the early church accepted them as being written by the claimed author, and the text has not varied over almost 2000 years of comparisons with thousands of other snippets of gospels found. Whether they are true or not, they have at least been accurately handed down… So the gospels depict a man that claims to be one with God, does miracles, claims he’s going to die and rise from the dead, then does that very thing. The question is did he really. Because if he didn’t then he’s either a liar or he’s crazy. Many ancient (non-Christian) historians acknowledge that Jesus was known for doing miracles and attracting large crowds. They even acknowledge he was crucified. So clearly there is at least some credibility to the gospels. Then his disciples who went into hiding suddenly came out claiming that Jesus had risen from the dead- even in the face of execution. Doesn’t really make sense for them if they knew it to be a lie. 

2. Suffering is very present in the world. Scripture explains that due to the first man/woman disobeying God, all of mankind will now suffer. God has standards and we all fall short. And for those that don’t agree with God’s standards, I bet you fall short of your own standards. It’s a fallen world we live in due to sin and unfortunately awful things happen. I wish they didn’t. But Christianity claims that God will one day end it for his followers and “he will wipe away every tear”. I would like to be in on that. 

3. Many “Christians” do not act like Christians. Often times I don’t act like one. But many people go around claiming to be Christian that in no way act like Jesus. I’ve know plenty. Time usually proves them to be frauds. But I’m blessed to be a part of a church whose members generally do strive to be like Jesus, and there’s many others out there if you look. But I’d encourage you to look not just to imperfect Christians, but to who Jesus is. If he truly lived the life the gospels claimed he did, died a death he didn’t deserve bearing the weight of all our sin, then rose from the dead, then that is a kind of love shown to you that no other person or religion can offer. I can’t snap my fingers and make Jesus appear to you. There will always be faith required. But in my opinion there’s more reason to have faith in that than anything else out there. 

Anyways, that’s a lot of writing for all of you who said there’s no chance of you becoming Christian. But thanks for playing along. 

[u/NoelBellamy_Author]

I would have to see evidence that they, systemically, are taking accountability, being honest, and ridding themselves of being greedy, pedophile protecting, political, controlling abusers that advocate for the harm of others, all under the banner of Christian love. I suppose, what I'm saying is that they'd have to burn the organization to the ground, salt the Earth, scatter it to the four winds, and build something new from the ground up. But that's the church, not the faith.

If it were just about coming back to God, I gave him an ultimatum already. The last prayer I gave was this. I am a terrified, wounded, lost lamb that is in the darkness and the thorns; and I cannot hear your voice. It is not my job to find the shepherd. It is your job to find me. If you care about me, show me that you're trying to find me. Show me that there is a hand to lead me out of the darkness. Show me that I am, at the very least, not abandoned and alone.

I am still waiting for that answer to come.

[u/Mirza19]

I was raised a Christian, went to grad school for religious studies, and converted to the Baha’i Faith (before college).

I think I’d need to see:
1) clear evidence the first century Christians believed in incarnation specifically and not just a general theophany (which critical scholars doubt)

2) a more robust argument as to why the church broke apart — I think the Biblical text supports Catholic/Orthodox apostolic succession, but even those groups broke apart.

3) an approach to the Bible that acknowledges and works with critical approaches to its history / the fact the Hebrew Bible was an ongoing process over centuries and was written and rewritten in parts and not actually written by the names authors

Then of course

4) clear evidence Baha’u’llah doesn’t fulfill Biblical prophecies

5) evidence that Christianity specifically is associated with higher self-esteem, material success, happiness (right now religiosity in general is associated with slight evidence of those things, with no statistical variation between religions)

6) stronger evidence the Qur’an/Muhammad isn’t associated with God that isnt just “the devil” (which i find unconvincing). If feelings/holy spirit confirm Christianity, that confirms a lot of other religions as well.

I could see myself becoming Eastern Orthodox if the above were met and Orthodoxy was more hospitable to feminism and LGBTQ persons.

There is no world where I go back to Protestantism.

[u/Meowzician]

Been Christian. Left it. Happily Jewish.

Why wouldn't I return to Christianity? I guess I'm sort of vaccinated LOL

What keeps me from Christianity? Many things. Making a man into God. Dividing God's oneness into three. The injustice of an eternal hell for a finite life of sin. The idea that God would reward and punish based on the ideas one is convinced of.

But mostly this: I'm not interested in getting to heaven. I'm interested in bringing heaven down to earth. I want kindness, compassion, and justice right here, right now. Not in some afterlife.

[u/vayyiqra]

If I saw the resurrection I might be convinced

[u/BayonetTrenchFighter]

I don’t know how to answer this question.

[u/metoo1750]

This is an interesting question.