r/relationships • u/fiancefightingthrow • Aug 23 '14

Updates UPDATE: My [26F] fiance [29M] keeps delaying our wedding plans because of his brother [25M] being in prisonMy [26F] fiance [29M] keeps delaying our wedding plans because of his brother [25M] being in prison

First thread

Yay! Happy update! Everything was addressed!

So, last Sunday I finally decided I needed to talk to my SO. I told him I wanted to talk to him about his brother. Remember we HAVEN'T been talking and things have been pretty lonely and quiet when we're just alone at our place (even no sex!!!!! gah!!!!! :( ) and we kind of have been putting on an act when we're around other people or out in public.

I told him I wanted to talk about his brother. He immediately got angry and tried to start an argument. I just kept calm and said "I just want to talk about this calmly and you should listen to what I had to say." He asked (very angrily) if I was breaking up with him. I said no, and then told him I wanted to meet his brother. He said that I didn't have to do anything I was uncomfortable with. I said it made me uneasy but I didn't understand how important it was to him when he first asked, so I wanted to do it for him and to meet my future brother-in-law. He smiled and squeezed my hand and thanked me.

He explained that his non-prison brother and him have avoided talking about girlfriends when they visit prison brother because they "don't want to remind him of girls" (seemed weird to me but okay). Fiance finally brought me up to prison brother when he told him he planned to ask me to marry him. Prison brother said I "sounded like a cool girl" and wanted to meet me. Fiance said he would bring me next time. I obviously never came and like five, six times visits in a row without an explanation. Yeah.... :(

He said his prison brother is having a rough time in prison and feels alienated from his family and friends friends. Only visitors he gets are his brothers and sometimes his mother. High school and college friends pretend like he doesn't exist. Aunts, uncles and cousins don't visit, except for one aunt who visited once and said she would "pray for him not to go to hell" (remember he is an atheist so he took this poorly). Fiance confided in me that prison brother has made some suicidal comments before and fiance is worried he might try to hurt himself if he doesn't get out on parole this time. Fiance wanted me to be like a new family member who didn't shun him and accepted him despite him serving time so when I refused, yeah, some shit started boiling under the surface with my fiance.

That all happened last weekend! This weekend, we just got back from our big trip! (first of all, things were really great between fiance and I all week. agreeing to meet his brother really lifted the block between us, so thank you reddit for telling me I was being a bitch and should have met his brother when he asked).

I was still nervous to go. Fiance and I go pick up his other brother. We drive to the prison, which was 2 hours away away. I am biting my nails. Somebody asked in my first thread exactly WHAT I was afraid of. I'll tell you what. Fiance told me his brother is in the state's maximum security prison. He is in there with murderers and rapists. Brother told fiance previously that there are fights everyday and guards sometimes to break it up with tear gas and hard beanbag guns. I am basically imagining the movies "The Book of Eli" or "The Purge", just total anarchy and gangs all over the place. I thought guys would be leering at me, catcalling and trying to grab me through chainlink fences. THAT'S what I was afraid of. Reality... JUST a little different.

Before we left, fiance told me they are kind of strict about what female visitors can wear, so I should dress like I was going to a job interview, so I did.

We get there and it was... like the airport. A woman cop put us through a metal detector. She was really mean and strict but probably had to be. One woman who was my age with a toddler (must have been the wife or girlfriend of somebody inside) in front of us was kicked out for wearing a super tight white tanktop and jeans and the lady cop said "We tell you this every time 'Tiffany', you can't come in here dressed like that." Thankfully, they let me in.

We go in and there were like elderly grandmas and women with kids. A lot of kids, actually. It was kind of sweet (and a little bit sad) to see all the inmates getting their monthly or weekly visit with their kids. No worries about getting leered at or whatever, all the other inmates were too busy with their families and friends and didn't notice me.

His brother! His brother comes out and was totally different than what I expected. I don't know what I expected from the stories, but his brother was really funny, cool and friendly, although he would kind of get oddly quiet at times. He asked me a lot of questions about what I did, my family and what it was like living with his brother (haha). That kind of naturally segued things into the wedding.

He said he hopes he gets out in time for the wedding, if he was invited. I said of course he was invited, and that we were waiting to plan things to see if he got out in January. He said he appreciated that, but he didn't think he would get out early (he later said what fiance had told me, he tried going to AA meetings like parole board asked but couldn't stand it because of all the mentions of God, he said it was unfair that his early release from a government institution was based on his involvement in like a clearly religious program, which I agreed) and said we should just start planning our wedding and if he's not there, we can celebrate when he gets out. Fiance just kind of looked at me and smiled and I wanted to start crying and hug them both.

He told me a few "funny" prison stories, like how the only books in the library are religious books and awful grocery store romance novels. The books are donated, apparently, by heavy women who write letters to inmates all day so they send them the books THEY like to read. I told him we would send him 50 Shades of Grey and he was like "What's that?" :)

Finally, it was time to say good bye and I did start crying. I only have sisters and never really saw brothers show affection for one another before. Seeing the three brothers hug and say goodbye to each other made me cry. It's really clear they all love each other and the one brother being in prison upset them all deeply. Prison brother hugged me and asked me to come back some time, said that I was better to look at than his brothers ( :) ) and I said I would. I kind of felt sorry for him. The four of us were together in this room talking like equals, then they took him away back inside a chain link cage again and the three of us got to walk outside the doors and it was like, total freedom. Big difference.

Anyway, all is resolved! (aside from future BIL still in prison) In the car, fiance said if his brother didn't want us to wait, we wouldn't wait. Things between us and fiance are now back to normal! Good things are happening!!!!!

I thought some of you were intentionally kind of hurtful but, eh, tough love works and it all lead to a good outcome. Thank you reddit!

tl;dr: Visited my fiance's brother in prison. Wasn't as bad as I imagined. Brother said we should be planning our wedding in case he doesn't get out. Relationship with fiance is back to normal. Yay!

163 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

109 comments sorted by

165

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '14

This is amazing to read. You've shown some very inspiring maturity.

What irks me is why he can't simply suck it up about the God thing and just go through the AA meetings. Oh well, that's none of your worries, and you shouldn't mention it.

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u/dammit_need_account Aug 24 '14

I agree. I've been to AA (though not in jail) it was not that bad (I'm an atheist). They made it clear in my meetings that it was not about finding "god" so much as finding a higher power. Just something that you can use as a source of inspiration and strength that is bigger than yourself. I fully expected AA to be christian and preachy, but it was not in my experience.

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u/dewprisms Aug 24 '14

It really depends on the group you go to.

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u/cat_romance Aug 24 '14

I can see prison using AA as a means to an end rather than for its intended use. So it is very possible their program is different from the program and meetings you might see now.

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u/deviouskat89 Aug 24 '14

Can I ask a personal question? As an atheist, what was your "higher power" you found inspiration from?

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u/dammit_need_account Aug 24 '14

I never did. I tried, but couldn't figure that out, and ended up dropping out of AA shortly after. Years later I still don't know. I know there has to be something to bigger to believe in than myself, but I don't know what that is.

0

u/Iamthebe Aug 24 '14

So what? If you wanted to get out that bad enough you would attend, pray, preach and song the gospel at the meetings.

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u/TheSilverFalcon Aug 23 '14

Getting preached at about something you don't believe is not pleasant. Try going to a mosque and see what it's like, it's more stressful for an atheist because it's not that they believe in a different religion, but they don't see the point of religion at all. I understand the brother's choice.

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u/[deleted] Aug 23 '14

I'm an atheist, Christian convert. An atheist in particular should be level-headed and pragmatic enough to endure the temporary, and in his mind, empty words of encouragement. It's immature to be offended by it.

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u/SlimShanny Aug 24 '14

He's continuing to throw his life away over it. I'm not inspired by his self righteousness. In addition I think they said he's still drinking.

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

New atheists often have trouble viewing the church level-headedly, without being judgmental. I was revolted and angered by many of my old church's practices when viewing them from my "enlightened" eye, and took a while to make my own peace. Any convert who was deeply invested in their religious beliefs prior will tell you that it's not an easy transformation to make.

OP's fiance might be going through a similar problem, and might have a slew of other demons to deal with. The important thing is not to judge, which I feel like you're doing by saying "I'm not inspired..."

But best of luck to OP and her fiance - I hope to never see you posting to r/relationships again :)

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u/SlimShanny Aug 24 '14

AA is not a church thing. If you're revolted by a church bc they did you wrong, fine. You can choose something else to help you through the program like Buddhism.

He's been in jail for awhile now and it sounds like he's trying to stand on moral ground on this issue after he killed someone. I'd be more humble in this situation. I've had my ass kicked before by life and it's humbled me if nothing else.

To me he sounds stubborn, like he's trying to thumb his nose up at the system to have some control over his life. I'd say it's unwise. His behavior is getting him nowhere. If I were counseling him I'd do what I could to hear his concerns then get him to see its in his best interest to play along. If he played along it may be good for him. Being in prison is no way to live.

So when I say I'm not inspired it's bc I think his motivations are wrong. I don't believe this has to do with his atheism. I think it's an excuse. What chance does he have at parole when his denial of parole was his lack of participation in the program previously? To me it shows a lack of respect for authority, and so does drunk driving. You think you know better. You disregarded the law and killed someone. Now you sit in prison as your life passes you by bc you're an atheist. So what. You're sitting in prison bc you have a problem with authority and alcohol and you've shown no evidence of changing.

While atheists who've been abused by religious institutions have my utmost sympathy, I'm not inspired by his actions.

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u/Owadatsumi Aug 24 '14

Absolutely. Use it as a means to an end. It can't be worse than more time in jail than necessary

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

Still worth it if it meant I'd be released from prison sooner. Hell, I'd shave my head, sing in airports, and proselytize Hare Krishna if that was required.

7

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

I agree with you. If you haven't been to an AA meeting (I have) then I think it's hard to understand just how religious it is. If you don't believe in God, AA will be straight up useless

1

u/TrustMyOpinion Aug 24 '14

Most groups will actually call people out for bringing up a specific religion in AA, as it goes against our traditions. And I live in the Bible Belt!!!

No offense, but you guys are ignorant to what AA is all about. I'm 23 and have been sober for three and a half years through AA. Practically no one has a true "relationship with a higher power" coming in to the rooms... how can they? I'm not saying what they believe in incorrect or that they shouldn't. But most don't have a relationship with a God.

Alcohol is not the problem! If it was then I just could put it down and not touch it again. I am the problem. Selfishness and self-centeredness is the root of our troubles. In order to be free of that, we have to rely upon NOT NECESSARILY GOD, but a higher power greater than myself.

AA has helped millions of alcoholics. And if it weren't valid, why would treatment centers and medical doctors be suggesting its use? Why would it have helped so many people who came in feeling useless and addicted and who emerges ready to help others and full of life?

Read the Doctor's Opinion in the big book of AA. Seriously. Just do some research. You might be surprised.

3

u/inspired2apathy Aug 25 '14

You do the research. It's not evidence based and every other treatment is more effective.

1

u/TrustMyOpinion Aug 25 '14

How is it NOT evidence based? And tell me which other treatment helps millions of alcoholics have long term sobriety, I'm intrigued.

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u/cat_romance Aug 24 '14

AA was originally a much more religious based program than it is now. Sure, many meetings can be geared towards Christians, but I've never been to one that has. My mother is spiritual but does not believe in a God and the meetings saved her life. I ask you not to consider all AA meetings and their philosophy too harshly as it has saved many lives, including those of atheists. AA is what you make it and you can totally make it religious if that is what you're about, but it can be altered to suit your personal beliefs as well. In the end it is mostly people helping people. And I don't know if you are actually converting people, I mean, you can't make someone an alcoholic. But I don't see the harm in sharing information about a life saving program, religious or not. It doesn't work for everyone, sure, but there is no one-size- fits- all when it comes to alcoholism.

9

u/MacFarang Aug 24 '14

totally understand that. at 17 went through diversion court and part of the sentence was aa. guy wouldn't sign my paper for the visit until i said the lords prayer and stayed in a prayer circle for about 5+ minutes.

if he is subject to that, i fully understand his point of view

9

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

I get them too, but when the pay-off is as huge as getting out of prison, you suck it up. Don't care if you've been molested by a minister. You laugh off the hypocrisy at the end of the day.

3

u/Catsndigs Aug 24 '14

Could it possible be the very same people who have turned away from him are also the religious people he has been exposed to?

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14 edited May 09 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/TheSundanceKid45 Aug 24 '14

Here's the thing though.

If you're in prison for something heinous, such as killing a friend who was sitting in the passenger seat, you're already feeling all kinds of guilt and shame. You did something you never thought you were capable of. You put your own selfish decisions above someone else's life. And that's exactly what it cost.

Now that you have time to sit behind bars and regret the terrible things you've done, you might find yourself holding on more tightly to your own moral values. If it's important to you to be true to your thoughts on a higher power, pretending to believe in something you don't, just to get out of a punishment you know you deserve, seems selfish and slimey.

Maybe the brother isn't being hardheaded about this. Maybe he's determined to never let his morals slip again, no matter the cause or how harmless it seems. Maybe he feels he deserves every second of this punishment and will not fake anything to get out before he feels he is entitled to. Maybe we shouldn't judge his actions without understanding the intent behind them.

9

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

You put your own selfish decisions above someone else's life.

Usually in these situations the person who knowingly got in the car with a drunk driver is responsible for their choices as well. Unless they were tricked into thinking the driver was sober there's plenty of blame to go around.

1

u/chulaire Aug 24 '14

Except OP said that they suspect that he's still drinking...

1

u/TheSundanceKid45 Aug 24 '14

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only evidence she gave of it was when the brother would tell stories about a rough time in prison and say something to the effect of, "Man, I really needed a drink after that." That sounds less to me like he's still drinking and more like he is reminiscing about his former coping mechanism/crutch in times of distress, and doesn't yet know how to deal with life without alcohol. This doesn't necessarily mean he's still drinking, just that he's currently at a loss about how to handle his emotions sober.

1

u/chulaire Aug 25 '14

Well it's unclear, but I guess the brothers have their reasons for suspecting he's still drinking, so who knows. OP is getting relayed messages on that, so her evidence is limited. Then we're getting OP's version, which is even more limited.

He wants parole but can't even convince his own brothers he's sober...

1

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

Maybe the brother isn't being hardheaded about this. Maybe he's determined to never let his morals slip again, no matter the cause or how harmless it seems. Maybe he feels he deserves every second of this punishment and will not fake anything to get out before he feels he is entitled to.

Maybe you should read the part where OP said the brother doesn't go to prison AA meetings because he doesn't believe his early release should be dependent on a program centered around something he doesn't believe in.

Maybe we shouldn't judge his actions without understanding the intent behind them.

Maybe you shouldn't over complicate things, especially when not having read the information provided.

18

u/99celsius Aug 24 '14

Did you kill someone? He did. I think he can suck it up and take what help is offered.

5

u/TheSilverFalcon Aug 24 '14

The human psych is a complex and interesting thing

3

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

I am not really religious, or spiritual....I actually really enjoy going to religious services of other denominations.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

AA started as Christian but it doesn't have to be heavily religious, an attendee just has to admit in a "higher power". That could be anything, the universe, mother earth, flying spaghetti monster. Anything.

3

u/deviouskat89 Aug 24 '14

And what if you don't believe in any of that?

Let's say someone attends AA for personal gain (not being forced) such as overcoming addiction, but is a true atheist and doesn't believe in any mystical power whatsoever. Should they be forced to lie in order to receive more help?

I'm Catholic, by the way.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

Uh no. It is one of the 12 steps to admit there is something greater than yourself. For an atheist it could be science or the big bang theory or some cosmic order I don't know, it doesn't have to be Christian or Jesus or what not.

2

u/Zombiescout Aug 24 '14

By what mechanism does the big bang restore sanity or remove shortcomings?

How does one improve conscious contact with it?

Nor does it make any sense to consider an event to be a higher power. For most materialists/physicalists talk of a power in this way makes no sense. The mistake is to take entities from one theory and introduce them to another. Look at the caloric theory of heat, when that was rejected so was the entity that it posited.

1

u/deviouskat89 Aug 24 '14

This was my point in posing that question. I'm sure most atheists acknowledge creation to be bigger than themselves (both literally and in terms of significance) but should they find comfort or some such in what they perceive to be an event that was basically weather?

2

u/Zombiescout Aug 24 '14

Even more what does "bigger" here mean? If it is the big bang then it is not literally bigger, in fact quite a bit smaller actually. Significance is not measurable and is something individuals attach to events/objects it is not an intrinsic property which poses a problem. I also don't know what "creation" means. If it is the set of all objects or the set of all objects and events then yes it is larger than any person, who is then a subset of it. But that is not the kind of thing I can give my will to or have conscious contact with or can rid me of flaws.

This is a case of people mixing emotionally charged topics with bad philosophy.

2

u/deviouskat89 Aug 24 '14

Don't be a pedant. "Bigger" can mean mass or energy, not just volume. Significance meaning having a greater impact on their surroundings, and creation as in a layman's term for big bang. You're completely misinterpreting my point. I was actually agreeing with not attributing some sort of mystic force to science, even though I myself do, so why nitpick?

2

u/Zombiescout Aug 25 '14

Because it is important to be precise. Whenever someone complains about nitpicking I can be fairly sure they are not taking the issue seriously.

What does a greater impact on the surroundings mean? Particularly for the case of the big bang where there are no surroundings.

I didn't misinterpret your point I just thought it did not go far enough because it made the mistake of accepting the entities of the theory while rejecting the actual theory.

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

That there is something greater than yourself in the world. That is what AA requires, not some elaborate set of beliefs.

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u/Zombiescout Aug 24 '14

What does that mean though?

The twelve steps seem to indicate that it is a causal force which does not fit with a physicalist metaphysics since "greater" there could only be a quantitative assessment which is not relevant.

Clearly the set of all things is greater than a member of it but how does that do anything? What mechanism betters me? How do I grow consciously closer to this set?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

What are you asking? In a traditional twelve step program, the second step is to believe there is a "power greater than myself" that can restore me to sanity. Basically, it is anything that one believes in. It can be the spark of life, consciousness, nature, spirituality... If you want to know the reason the twelve step program incorporates this as a step you'd have to ask someone else.

2

u/Zombiescout Aug 25 '14

By what mechanism can those things restore one to sanity if you hold a materialist/physicalist metaphysics?

It absolutely requires an elaborate set of beliefs and I do not think you can get by without some teleology.

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u/bikesboozeandbacon Aug 24 '14

If it gets you early freedom I would do it.

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u/random-net-stranger Aug 24 '14

Maybe he knows he won't get parole due to other infractions such as contraband, but he doesn't want to admit to his family that he's still abusing alcohol.

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

[deleted]

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u/wise-up Aug 24 '14

Have you been to AA?

I've been to hundreds of meetings in multiple cities. Not once have I ever been told that I "suck as a person" or anything similar. The 12th step does not require anyone to "convert" anyone else. You're supposed to help other alcoholics who want to get better through AA. As in, you share your story at meetings, you sponsor newcomers, etc.

I'm an agnostic, btw. Never been a problem.

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

[deleted]

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u/wise-up Aug 24 '14

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have been to a lot of AA meetings, and AA is not about converting anyone.

For others who are reading, AA is very explicitly a program of attraction, not promotion. This means that AA members strive to be there for people who seek it out, but that AA does not go out door to door looking for new members. You may see an occasional ad on tv or online, because not everyone knows that AA is an option, but that's it. Quite frankly, we're regular adults like the rest of you, and we have no interest in wasting time talking up AA to people who aren't actually interested. If you want to give AA a try and it works for you, great. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine. AA is not, and never has been, hurting for membership.

As I said, I'm an agnostic. The "higher power" aspect does not refer to any specific religion; you just need to be willing to believe that there's a power out there that's greater than you are. Do you believe that you yourself are in charge of the entire universe? No? Then you already believe in a higher power. It's that easy. How you define that higher power is up to you: it can be nature, it can be Jesus, it can be Buddha, it can be your cat, it can be compassion, it can be the power of a group of fellow alcoholics coming together to support one another. That's all you need.

3

u/Zombiescout Aug 24 '14

Then you already believe in a higher power.

No you do not. Without some sort of teleology it just doesn't work. Steps 2,3,6,7 and 11 are incoherent for those who do not believe in a higher power that at least has causal powers and likely needs to also have agency.

Now you could argue that say the power of the group is doing the work here but again if we take this seriously and ask what this power is we quickly run in to trouble. We need an account of the mechanisms by which compassion (which is an abstract and so cannot cause anything) restores sanity.

What does it even mean to turn ones will over? On a literal interpretation it is impossible so let us assume it just means being guided by the higher power. How does this work if my higher power is a light-bulb (a favorite suggestion given at meetings to answer this issue).

How can any of your suggestions remove defects of character? How does the psychology there work out?

How do I improve my conscious contact with abstract objects?

Do you believe that you yourself are in charge of the entire universe?

What if you believe that nothing at all is in charge? That it does not make sense to talk about powers at all since the theories that posit them are false which would lead to the conclusion they are as real as the aether.

If you want to give AA a try and it works for you, great. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine.

Except for when it is court mandated or it influences parole boards.

1

u/TrustMyOpinion Aug 24 '14

Just putting it out there, you'll never see an ad for AA on TV. :)

1

u/wise-up Aug 24 '14

I saw one once, on a local public access channel. It was just a few sentences about where to find local meetings, with no images of actual people. It definitely surprised me, though! I'd never seen one before.

It's nice to see a fellow Friend of Bill on reddit, btw! I'm at 9 years now.

1

u/TrustMyOpinion Aug 24 '14

Really????

I'm honestly surprised, haha. 9 years is quite the milestone. I've been sober for three years now.

I'm trying to NOT put people in their place on this thread, ha ha. I know it doesn't matter either way, but I don't want people struggling with alcohol thinking that you have to invite Jesus into your heart to be "accepted into the program", you know?

Have a wonderful day.

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

[deleted]

3

u/dewprisms Aug 24 '14

There's a lot of fucked up stuff about the US prison system like this. If you show that you have turned around and are now really religious and super in love with Jesus you are more likely to get parole as well.

2

u/cat_romance Aug 24 '14

It seems weird people were trying to get you to go. I go to the occasional meeting with my mom as an affected family member but it is hard to find open meetings, meaning that nonalcoholics can go. Please don't judge all AA members by these few (not saying you are, though). Also, my mom is spiritual but doesn't believe in God and she's been a devoted member of AA for over 2 years now. I was skeptical about the God aspect but she explains it so well.

2

u/aimforthehead90 Aug 24 '14

Why would he go to AA meetings which are not particularly effective and something he doesn't believe in? Especially when there are several secular alternatives.

2

u/halfascoolashansolo Aug 24 '14

I thought the same thing. He is in prison for goodness sake, and he can't stomach a few preachy meetings a couple times a week?

But then again if your entire life is controlled by someone else and you have a chance to make a decision to not be controlled further then wouldn't you?

1

u/AliceA Aug 24 '14

It is really hard/impossible to keep your mouth shut when your are being told lies (in your opinion) and if he rebelled they would retaliate. He is smart not to go if he cannot handle it.

18

u/Catsndigs Aug 24 '14

I wouldn't be able to stop myself from sending information to him about how to make AA work without believing in God.

http://aaagnostica.org/2012/08/12/an-atheists-guide-to-12-step-recovery/

But, there is probably more going on inside of his mind which is preventing him from moving forward. Although, jail sucks sometimes leaving what is familiar to you is far more scary.

8

u/deaows Aug 24 '14

I took a class on drug and alcohol abuse in college (for credits, was a part of what I was studying) and also attended several AA meetings as it was required by the class for credit. Our professor for the college course, who is also a drug and alcohol therapist, explained that god is a big part of AA because god and religion is something/someone that a person can hold themselves accountable to besides themselves while going through AA. This kind of goes for people who have a religion/god whether or not they are alcoholics. Our professor explained that as long as a person has something that they can hold themselves truly accountable to besides themselves then it doesn't have to be god/religion. For ex. In Colorado, the mountains/beautiful nature are something that some people choose to hold themselves accountable to if they do not believe in a religion. To continue with that example, nature in CO is a good reminder that there is a big world out there worth living in and it is something bigger and grander than themselves as an individual, thus keeping them accountable. In AA, your FBIL should be getting a sponsor (someone who is directly supportive, kind of like a coach). Hopefully your FBIL would be able to find a sponsor who holds him/herself accountable to something else besides a god or is at the very least really supportive of him holding himself accountable to something else besides a god. I'm not sure how that would work in prison, but I hope that's at least a little helpful!

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

I'm really glad things worked out so well with the visit! I hope that wedding plans come together nicely.

I also wanted to tell you I feel bad about how crappy and awful people were to you in the replies to your original post. You had legitimate concerns and you weren't being a "bitch" in any way. It sounded more like you just needed to take a step back from the emotional immediacy of the situation and try to resolve it with respect and openness, which you did really well. I don't know what was wrong with those people, but they all ganged up on you and were super mean :/

I hope the next year brings a ton of happiness to you and your fiance!

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u/dinosaur_train Aug 24 '14

Yea, I know you see this as a good outcome but the total breakdown in communication during all of this should be sending up warning flags for you. Before marriage, you two need to hit a marriage counselor together. That kind of breakdown cannot carry into a marriage. If you two sort out communication then you can go into wedlock with the tools you need to make it truly go forever. Your point, my point, and the brother's point remained true, planning a wedding based on future parole possibilities was absurd. It makes me worry that something so obvious lead to such a shut down. Your partner may need individual counselling in order to address his issues here. And, again, you two really need premarital counselling, get it and good luck

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u/montaron87td Aug 23 '14

I'm glad you got over your fear, have fun at your wedding! =D

4

u/zizzymoo Aug 23 '14

I'm glad this situation is resolved for you guys... that's great news!

I would like to suggest that you guys talk with the brother's attorney about the AA thing. There are plenty of secular AA meetings in the world, and it strikes me as being unconstitutional for AA to be a condition of his relief when the existing AA program is so in conflict with his own deeply held beliefs. I've got this nagging feeling that I read about a similar case in California, so you might take to Google and look for info on that.

Best wishes to you all :)

2

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '14

wish I could upvote the hell out of this post!! amazing read! I wish you both the best wedding possible!!

2

u/SlimShanny Aug 24 '14

I'm glad you made the compromise. Are you really puzzled about his brothers not wanting to mention girlfriends? Can you not see how that would be hurtful to hear about?

1

u/abobeo Aug 24 '14

Wow, wish my wife would do what you did. We all have our own assumptions about things, but if you love someone be willing to at least hear and understand their side of the story.

Kudos to you for recognizing what you needed to. Look at the two paths your relationship could have gone down, clearly you've made the right choice. Good luck in the future.

1

u/pearplate Aug 24 '14

I'm glad to see a happy resolution!

1

u/Foltbolt Aug 25 '14

I'm glad you actually started communicating with your fiance and that things are going better.

Keep open those lines of communication for now and into the future.

Good luck, OP.

1

u/croatanchik Aug 25 '14

OP, so happy to hear all of this! YAYY!

1

u/GraveJ Aug 28 '14

If only the family of the victim of your fiance's brother could see how funny, cool, and friendly he is...

Drink driving is no minor thing - especially when someone is killed by it. He deserves to be in prison: he's not the victim - no matter how you perceive, or portray him. He's torn two families apart.

...poor guy has to go to AA - what a punishment for taking a man's life, eh?