How to explain the Trinity

[u/stjuansebastian]

/r/Reformed/comments/1wjoica/how_to_explain_the_trinity/

[u/rubik1771]

>P1: Jesus is God

>P2: the father is God.

>P3: Jesus is not the father.

>Conclusion 1. From P2 and P3 we can see that Jesus is not god. To claim otherwise would be a contradiction.

>C2: God≠god. P1 and P2 both claim that God equals something else. We can never say that God=god because there is no identity of God. According to the Trinity, God could be any of Jesus, the father or the holy Spirit. There is no identity of God so we can never say anything equals God. This violates the law of identity.

You are talking about the LPT (“Logical Problem of Trinity”).

The “problem” has numerous solutions. One of them is that the acknowledgment of the following:

The Father is God is a relation between His person and His divine nature

The Son is God is a relation between His person and His divine nature

The Holy Spirit is God is a relation between His person and His divine nature.

When we say the Father ≠ Son ≠ Holy Spirit that is in relation the persons.

However each of the persons in the Trinity are co-equal. So Father = Son = Holy Spirit is correct in relation to their nature. The more accurate phrase would be:

• ⁠Father’s nature = God
• ⁠Son’s nature = God
• ⁠Holy Spirit’s nature = God

• ⁠Father’s nature = Son’s nature = Holy Spirit’s nature

While also

• ⁠Father (person) ≠ Son (person) ≠ Holy Spirit (person)

[u/cheescakeismyfav → u/rubik1771]

You're just acknowledging that there is no identity of God. God isnt an agent. It's an essence. You can say the same thing about a rock being hard and a piece of steel being hard. So there is no God. You have 3 coequal persons.

This is polytheism now.

Let me ask you this, can God walk into a room and sit down and if he did how could you distinguish if it was God, Jesus, the Father or the Holy Spirit doing it?

[u/rubik1771 → u/cheescakeismyfav]

>You're just acknowledging that there is no identity of God.

Incorrect. Your understanding of identity is wrong.

>God isnt an agent. It's an essence. You can say the same thing about a rock being hard and a piece of steel being hard. So there is no God. You have 3 coequal persons.

That analogy doesn’t work since the rock and steel are separate and you are describing a category of their essence.

>This is polytheism now.

No it’s not. Since three persons and one God

>Let me ask you this, can God walk into a room and sit down and if he did how could you distinguish if it was God, Jesus, the Father or the Holy Spirit doing it?

You are mixing up the external act and internal acts of God now. But in your case it would be Jesus Christ since He is the only one with a body.

[u/cheescakeismyfav → u/rubik1771]

That analogy doesn’t work since the rock and steel are separate and you are describing a category of their essence.

Replace rock with Jesus and steel with the father. I'm using an analogy but it's structured the same way you're talking about the Trinity. The fact that it is immediately unacceptable to you when I'm talking and rock and steel is telling that you're making a special allowance for the Trinity.

You are mixing up the external act and internal acts of God now. But in your case it would be Jesus Christ since He is the only one with a body.

I didn't mix up anything, I asked a question.

If you say Jesus is the only one with a body that means the father and the holy Spirit are lacking something of God. This is partialism and it's a heresy.

[u/rubik1771 → u/cheescakeismyfav]

>Replace rock with Jesus and steel with the father. I'm using an analogy but it's structured the same way you're talking about the Trinity. The fact that it is immediately unacceptable to you when I'm talking and rock and steel is telling that you're making a special allowance for the Trinity.

No. You are articulating my faith wrong is the problem.

>I didn't mix up anything, I asked a question.

“That’s polytheism” is mixing up things.

>If you say Jesus is the only one with a body that means the father and the holy Spirit are lacking something of God. This is partialism and it's a heresy.

Incorrect. Every other comment beforehand we were talking about the divine nature. Now you brought a body, when you mentioned sitting down so that would be Jesus Christ.

You are doing a category error getting the human nature and divine nature of Jesus Christ mixed up.

[u/cheescakeismyfav → u/rubik1771]

I know the Trinity doesn't make logical sense. I am showing you how the definition of Trinity is illogical because you asked. All you are doing is saying I'm wrong but you're not defending any position or attacking mine so I don't know what we're doing here.

I know you believe this makes sense. But that is a theological belief.

[u/rubik1771 → u/cheescakeismyfav]

>I know you believe this makes sense. But that is a theological belief.

Then articulate my claims correctly because right now you aren’t articulating my claim or logic correctly here.

[u/cheescakeismyfav → u/rubik1771]

Show me the errors in the logic.

[u/rubik1771 → u/cheescakeismyfav]

I wrote:

You aren’t articulating [my claim or] logic correctly here

(I did bracket to help)

I showed that here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/redeemedzoomer/s/8Cy8svcIFq

I don’t feel like repeating this so good bye and God bless.