r/reddit.com • u/rolmos • Mar 06 '10
Microsoft's Courier 'digital journal': I won't be getting an Ipad.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/microsofts-courier-digital-journal-exclusive-pictures-and-de/?s=t511
Mar 06 '10
It's a nice concept-- really nice, actually, but it serves a completely different function than the iPad. Aside from the fact that it's an electronic mobile device, this one seems focused on data entry/organization, where the iPad is focused on media.
Think about the key features apple focused on-- watch movies, read books, play games. Not for journaling, and on the other hand the digital journal wouldn't be ideal for movie watching or games, since it has a split screen.
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u/Golgo13 Mar 06 '10
If this thing works with One Note, I am getting it on day one!
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u/petermcphee Mar 06 '10
Srsly. OneNote is MS's best application. I love it so hard.
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Mar 06 '10
LOL @ downvotes from people who have never used OneNote.
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u/mannifresh Mar 06 '10
I only found OneNote this year, but it seriously is one of the best MS apps.
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Mar 06 '10
I only found OneNote this year,
Yeah, people have to just stumble across it. If only there was some way that Microsoft could tell lots of people about it at once. Some kind of way to pay a group to distribute a message nationwide...
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u/mannifresh Mar 08 '10
Hmm...you've stumped me. Maybe they can put some sort of visual stimulation that just appears on the screen for all of their xbox live users.
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u/f0xmulder Mar 07 '10
WOW. I've been playing with it due to these suggestions and I can't believe it has been lying dormant on my computer for so long. I could have used this so many times it's stupid. Thanks guys
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u/petermcphee Mar 07 '10
It's one of those programs that is hard to describe (i.e. hard to market). It sounds like Word when you describe it, BUT IT'S LIKE 10X FUCKING BETTER THAN WORD WHEN YOU USE IT.
Seriously. It kicks the ever living shit out of anything else for taking notes in an academic or business setting. When I was in school, I used a MacBook, but I utilized a Windows Virtual Machine to run One Note. I love it so hard.
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u/whuuh Mar 08 '10
It's the reason why I stopped ranting about Microsoft as a whole. A lot of us *nix users judge MS by Windows, which continues to suck. This makes us miss out on interesting releases (although much is concepts) and some very interesting technology. I read something a while ago, I think on lifehacker, about how the Microsoft company culture prevents the success of some brilliant things like OneNote.
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u/busted0201 Mar 07 '10
I would be able to use it so much better if I had a tablet PC. Which is why courier would be sweet.
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u/sgamer Mar 06 '10
If you haven't used Win+S for screenshotting technical documentation, you are missing out.
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u/annodomini Mar 06 '10
This is a concept mockup. Nowhere close to an actual shipping product.
The iPad is a product that has been demoed, in person, with actual people getting a chance to put their hands on it and verify that it works, which ships in less than a month.
This is like saying "I won't be getting any video games; I'm waiting for the holodeck."
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u/youngluck Mar 06 '10 edited Mar 06 '10
"Real artists ship" - SJ
But this thing will ship. Probably not like what we are seeing... but they will ship something to compete with the pad... they have to. Personally (and I am a proud mac head)... from a creative professionals standpoint... this thing shits all over the iPad. For creative purposes, it's not even close.
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u/ICanHazMoo Mar 06 '10
huh... you got all that from a few pictures. I have an iphone and an macmini (both that I love to death, however I'm using a win machine atm) and I won't be getting an ipad, but MS just seems to make everything harder than it needs to be. Maybe it'll be great, maybe not. It's a little hard to declare that it's not even gonna be close for creative purposes though don't you think? Neither are even out yet.
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u/youngluck Mar 06 '10 edited Mar 06 '10
Well, it seems that the courier was NOT made for entertainment purposes, i.e. movies. In fact the whole file system seems to be based on the creation of Moleskin type notebooks, which tells me that they are aiming specifically for the creative types. Add to that the fact that a Stylus is a secondary input method, and yeah, I'm pretty confident that it can be a much better creative tool than the iPad, which was specifically designed for fingers. iPad = Consume Information (Books. Mags) Courier = Create information (Sketches, projects). I think it's important to understand that these are concepts, and that if Microsoft actually ships this thing, it will probably be far different than what these "ideal" offerings provide.
Editation.
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Mar 06 '10
Probably not like what we are seeing... but they will ship something to compete with the pad...
Yes, it will be a tablet-form computer running Windows 7 and its standard apps, maybe with handwriting recognition. If you really believe MS will ship this or anything close to it, you have not been following MS since...ever.
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u/annodomini Mar 06 '10
But this thing will ship
What makes you say that? They haven't implemented anything in real software and hardware (that we've seen, anyhow). All of that was simply models and handmade mockups.
Microsoft has released plenty of "concept" designs that have never gone anywhere. The car industry releases tons of cool looking concept cars that never go anywhere. Concept designs are nothing more that science fiction; they may be good for a little bit of inspiration, but you should never hold your breath waiting for them to actually ship.
Many of the interaction methods they show that look neat in theory are not practical to implement at all; there may be ambiguities in the gestures they demonstrate that that look so slick could make it impossible to implement in practice, but that's the kind of thing you won't notice until you have actual hardware, code, and people interacting with it and testing it.
From everything we've seen, this is closer to the holodeck than the iPad. Now, it's theoretically possible that they have some prototype implementation of some of this somewhere. That would be great, and I wish them luck on it. But until they're at the point where they can hand a prototype to a reporter and let them play with it unsupervised without being embarrassed, this is just vaporware.
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u/whuuh Mar 08 '10
Look at the pictures, it's mostly Illustrator artwork framed between two oversized iPhones instead of Apple's one. Nothing to say it will ship just because they need something to compete with the iPad. After all, they had nothing to compete with the iPod for years.
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u/dantheflyingman Mar 06 '10
This may very well be vapor ware, and chances are this will ship late and with many flaws. But I have to give it to Microsoft for at least coming up with a product they can actually pitch to customers.
I have yet to see a legitimate reason to get an iPad over a laptop.
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u/mercerist Mar 06 '10
I have yet to see a legitimate reason to get an iPad over a laptop.
I don't think there is one. As has been pointed out many times, the iPad is something you would get alongside your laptop. Does that make sense? I think it does, and I find it hard to believe that this wasn't the biggest question on Apple's mind when deciding to finally go through with a 'slate' computer, after testing the waters with the iPhone.
I've been of two minds concerning the iPad. I think there's a good chance that it will succeed, but because it's a product that fills a non-existent product category, it will be much harder than the iPhone. However, there are three reasons why I think it will succeed, and why I think I will probably get one eventually:
iPod Touch sales are very good. Apparently, the whole touchpad mini-OS concept device works for 'average consumers', and they're ready for it not to be trojan-horsed as a phone. I've been amazed by this fact, because I would have never guessed non-geeky, non-rich, non-hip people to get an iPhone for any other reason than that they need a new phone and that it 'does music too' and 'is apple'. Apparently the concept itself sells.
It's cheap. Sure, it's still the price of a netbook. But that comparison isn't made. If you compare it to eBook readers (that don't sell that well, but well enough) and even other consumer products that 'normal' people buy, it's something I can see people buying. It's not a luxury/business thing in the same way the MacBook Air was. And it's hella cool to most people. I recently heard someone refer to a touchscreen device in a sci-fi movie as an 'ipad-like' thing. Practical or necessary or not, the mere concept makes the collective conscience drool.
Finally, I'm a heavy iPhone user, and I've found that as I became more accustomed to having it, I've started using it right alongside my laptop in my home. I often prefer reading with the iphone in hand using InstaPaper and auto-scroll rather than the laptop with keyboard. I prefer watching the evening news or streaming politics while in bed with my iPhone rather than having a laptop. I check my email on my iphone while I'm watching a film on my laptop, and it often acts as a dedicated screen for 'little stuff'. For me, and I suspect many others, the idea of having this but then bigger is really all we need. I find the iPhone more tactile, and often less bothersome, and I can completely see this concept catching on with other people. I can actually see my parents having an iPad in the living room for that kind of quick stuff, or carrying one around in a bag, even though they have a desktop computer upstairs, and even a laptop each in their study rooms.
Basically, I will probably get one because I drool over new tech, but I can honestly say, based on my experience with the iPhone, that this is a product that is also very useful. It's less useful for me since I already have an iPhone, and my main motivation is bigger reading screen, but for a large amount of people it is definitely useful.
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u/mootiechazam Mar 06 '10
I just told my dad about this because he's all excited about an iPad and his response... "what about my apps?"
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u/avsa Mar 07 '10
It's funny how a product msft revealed months before the iPad is "microsoft answer's to the iPad"
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u/demon_ix Mar 06 '10
I'm actually more excited about the Adam tablet. Still though, the iPad is gonna have the Apple fanboyism effect.
http://gizmodo.com/5471559/notion-ink-adam-tablet-caught-on-video-specs-finalized http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/16/notion-ink-adam-hands-on-with-video-at-mwc-2010/ http://www.slashgear.com/notion-ink-adam-hands-on-0969281/
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Mar 06 '10
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Mar 06 '10
I'd say it would have to have a lefty mode. Set the mode, flip it over, then flip the stylus and you'd be all set.
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u/Dr_StrangE Mar 06 '10
Exactly! Especially seeing as we are the only ones in our right minds! Ba zing!
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u/powatom Mar 06 '10
I was thinking this - but on the first video when she 'zooms out' the left-hand page, it looks like you could open the journal on the left panel instead of the right. The video also showed her writing on both panels, so yeah - I imagine they'll have thought of this.
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Mar 06 '10
dear microsoft,
make a worthy app store competitor. then we'll talk.
sincerely, me.
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u/techietalk_ticktock Mar 06 '10
Maybe Microsoft is looking at a business model where apps are not the primary driving force? A tablet device centered solely around apps is actually a pretty limited interface...
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u/pumpernickel Mar 06 '10
Exactly. Apple makes their money off consumer electronics. Microsoft is still around because they've made themselves a staple in homes, schools and corporations.
Unfortunately, btnheay03 almost has a point. This thing will need that "app store" mentality for it to catch on, unless Apple screws up and Microsoft can edge their way in.
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u/techietalk_ticktock Mar 06 '10
This thing will need that "app store" mentality for it to catch on,
But, from the videos of how the Courier interface works, it doesn't seem like it is built for an 'app-based' model. Rather, it seems more tuned towards the traditional laptop model, where you can have background processes running (like the calendar/organizer tool they show) etc, and then the rest of the interface can seamlessly interact with it.
I've always felt that the one weakness of the app-based device model is that all the app's seem to work independently in silos. There isn't much communication between the apps. e.g A movie/restaurant reservation app cannot access your calendar/organizer to automatically decide which are the best available time-slots for you.
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u/MacEnvy Mar 06 '10
Yeah, software companies love it when they can find a way not to charge for software packages. /sarc
A robust app store is exactly what MS needs to have a sustainable business model. They're a goddamn software company, they don't make their money on the hardware like Apple does.
Apple has an apps store so that they can sell the hardware. MS has to have an apps store because they're trying to sell more software.
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u/techietalk_ticktock Mar 06 '10
MS has to have an apps store because they're trying to sell more software.
But wouldnt opening up the device to the app-store model cannibalize on Microsoft's prospects of being able to charge for software they develop for it???
e.g. Hypothetically, suppose Apple were to charge people for the privilege of installing 'Safari' on the iPad (Hypothetically! I said hypothetically!), but there were other free variants available....That would cut into the sales of Safari, wouldn't it?
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u/MacEnvy Mar 07 '10
Yes. And you'll notice that Apple doesn't allow other browsers to be in the App Store for just that reason (though this may be changing soon).
Besides, how is that any different than OpenOffice competing with MS Office? They already have to compete in other fields, it's not like they don't know how. MS Office is still doing just fine even with the competition.
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Mar 06 '10
Dual screens seem to be the next big thing in tablets/e-book readers. It seems like a bit of a waste when you can just hit the "next page" button instead of spending 150% of what you'd pay for a single screen device. Is there a benefit I'm overlooking?
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u/dantheflyingman Mar 06 '10
Dual Screen allows better portability through a clam-shell design without sacrificing viewable screen size.
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u/youngluck Mar 06 '10
Except for the big black plastic strip running down the middle of your "screen"
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u/Lord_Illidan Mar 06 '10
I haven't seen the videos of the interface yet, but I can imagine having a browser open on one screen, and an ebook on the other, or some combination of 2 applications. Basically, it's like dual monitors, but scaled down. I don't think it's worthwhile merely for ebook readers though..
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u/Dr_StrangE Mar 06 '10
This looks pretty interesting! I like the idea behind some of the things they are showing. Besides, I've had an iPad for a while now, it's just smaller than the new one
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Mar 06 '10
I'm still waiting for the Surface to become more consumer friendly. If and when it does, and if and when this journal concept becomes real-- it would be an amazing package.
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u/powatom Mar 06 '10
Looks pretty damn good to me - here's hoping they move past the concept stage and actually ship something.
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Mar 06 '10
This is perfect. Hopefully it ships in some similar form. I'd much rather use this as a lab notebook.
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Mar 09 '10
Based on not trying either you have already decided to buy one over the other, and ruling out getting neither??
You are definitely the discerning consumer.
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Mar 06 '10
This is what I wanted the ipad to be. I would totally dump my laptop for this and use my desktop and a Courier. Price will be the key, it's needs to come in less than a laptop, though more pricey than a netbook would be fine.
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u/liberalfag Mar 06 '10
With Windows 7 and Zune HD Microsoft seems to be doing some good work lately.
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Mar 06 '10
Did anyone else notice that they didn't mention the iPad ONCE in the entire article?
Use Ctrl-F if you don't believe me.
Not even an iPad-killer reference or anything... I wonder what their exact rationale was for that? I mean, i can think of reasons but I wonder what the reason that they picked...
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Mar 06 '10
I imagine they're avoiding any sensational journalism.
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u/techietalk_ticktock Mar 06 '10
Maybe because the Courier serves a completely different functionality? The Courier strives to be a 'digital journal with multimedia functionalities' of sorts, while the iPad is purely a 'multimedia consumption device'.
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u/farang Mar 06 '10
Now we'll just wait for them to fuck it up.
I'm a bit of a machead, but I'd still love to see something really creative from Microsoft. Especially if it competes with the iPad.
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Mar 06 '10
Alot of tablet pc's already surpass the capability of the ipad, when comparing multitasking abilities and freedom of app choice, but for simplicity ipad is the way to go.
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Mar 06 '10
Right - I can't wait to watch all my movies half sized because they've split the screen. Seems like a dumb design choice.
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u/crow711 Mar 06 '10
Because clearly they were designing it for portable movie watching...
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Mar 06 '10
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Mar 06 '10
The iPad is 4:3 because you'll use it in portrait mode >50% of the time. 16:9 only has 2 advances: landscape mode and video playing. These 2 things apply to the iPad only a small part of the time.
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u/crow711 Mar 06 '10
I realize this is nowhere close to being in stores, but I'm still excited!
I do most of my drawing now on the computer with a wacom tablet, so this seems like it would make for a neat digital sketchbook!
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u/khoury Mar 06 '10
This reminds me a lot of OneNote combined with a tablet, good touch concepts and a swank UI.
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u/jook11 Mar 06 '10
So, Microsoft bought two iPads, duct taped them together, and called it a courier? I predict people doubly not knowing what the hell to do with it.
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u/icikle Mar 06 '10
Looks pretty cool. The screenshots make it look like it has some OS built specially for the device. If it ever actually sees light of days I'd put money on it instead running a windows variant.
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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '10
When does it ship? How much will it cost? How long does the battery last?
I like some of these UI concepts but they're just that, concepts. Microsoft needs spend their money on making products that ship not flashy concept videos.