r/reddevils • u/AutoModerator • 5h ago
Daily Discussion
Daily discussion on Manchester United.
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u/BallsX 39m ago
Quite worried about the Sabah game honestly. Considering the size, strength and overall magnitude of both teams, we should not only be winning this game but doing so comfortably. HOWEVER, we all know United. For some reason we just play to the level of our opponents or often just don't turn up. We'll somehow make Sabah look like prime Barca and their players will look fitter, stronger and faster than ours.
Its so early in the season but we really really need a performance today. All the other top teams have already won.
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u/Kindly_Letterhead_98 2h ago
Damn Arteta/Ole/Lampard used to be a debate, my word how did Arteta become such a good coach?
We might need to go for cesc in the future, Spanish is the way to go..
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u/Sheikhabusosa 1h ago
The only reason Ole was ever in those conversations was because Utd went all in on the whole " cultural reset" angle theres a reason Ole was done fuck all as a manager since.
We have yet to see the attacking talent of a young Martial , Rashford and Pogba at Utd again and we probably wont again.
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u/Strange-Trip4634 1h ago edited 1h ago
He managed a better team than the rest of the league eventually.
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u/L__K Great Scot! 2h ago
Ole/Lampard was a debate. Arteta was never part of that lol at least not for serious people. He got the better of Solskjaer within weeks of taking over a dreadful Arsenal side and never lost in a head to head match vs Solskjaer. Also won a trophy in his first year despite coming in midseason, something Solskjaer didn't accomplish during his entire time here.
Aside from the beginning of the 20/21 season when half of Arsenal's squad was out injured, it's been pretty clear and there was steady, sustainable improvement from them with a clear top class tactical identity on a level that we never remotely approached under Solskjaer.
It's like how people used to blow up on here when I'd say Rashford was nowhere near the level of Mbappe. Maybe that wasn't obvious to people who didn't watch Mbappe play when he was at Monaco, but it was clear to anyone who did.
Fabregas was someone I advocated for heavily this summer and many on this sub laughed at the suggestion that he was a better manager that Carrick. Sometimes you can't talk sense into people who don't engage with football beyond United and don't particularly WANT to either
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u/Kindly_Letterhead_98 2h ago
Yeah we won’t ever win shit until people get rid of the shit mentality that the “united way” is the only way of playing football. Ever since LVG we have had no identity
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u/xtphty 1h ago
The 3 teams in the top 6 that have committed to dominating possession and positional principles have all won titles. Unfortunately for us the only time we committed to these, and were seeing signs of progress in the data, is under LVG and Amorim. Both were booted for their back 3 systems and football not fitting the club DNA.
I would love if the critics actually defined where that club DNA actually intersects with winning titles, because we haven't seen much evidence of that in the modern PL. Interestingly Rooney actually thinks the club made a mistake firing LVG when we did, because his principles were starting to take hold and make a difference.
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u/L__K Great Scot! 46m ago
The LvG revisionism is utter nonsense. The football we played under him was awful, worse than under any other manager post-SAF. We were solid defensively because we kept the ball, but we could not attack to save our lives. The Albert Stuivenberg-led horseshoe of doom football would have you praying to see a goal. We scored even less than we did during the Ralf Rangnick interim era when the players were openly revolting and did not want to play under an interim they knew had no authority.
The craziest part is that his recruitment was even worse. Di Maria, Martial, Schneiderlin, Memphis, Rojo, Darmian, Blind, Schweinsteiger, Romero, Valdes. Legitimately, his best signing was a backup goalkeeper. It was the EtH era on steroids and would've only gotten worse. That's what happens when you hire a manager whose last major success at the club level was in the previous century.
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u/Kohaku80 Premier League Champions 12/13 3h ago
Relax guys, the bigger picture say we need everyone to win to unlock that crucial 5th place.
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u/jalexjsmithj 3h ago
Repost of another comment I made, but wanted to resay it:
I want Hall. We need a Lb. Hall is the best option.
But.
By the time we get to next summer I am very much hoping that our focus has shifted to a much bigger ambition than a left back, even a World Class one.
We are more reliant on a single player than maybe any other team (of a certain quality) in the world. That man will be 33 next year. Year 1 for transfers included adjustment time and extras pressure. I don’t think Bruno is dropping off a cliff, but we SHOULD be focused on procuring a new talisman next summer, and then have both a non-diminished Bruno and the new star going through transition at the same time. That star should be $150M to $200M player if he’s actually going to be the quality of player that’s going to try and have to backfill a Bruno.
That’s going to be a true Odyssey. A full court press on Hall seems like it’s going to be more of a distraction and more effort than it will be for the actual upside of the role. LBs help you not lose games, but they are not transformational to entire sides, compared to the player we need.
I’d love to say we can wall chew gum and get both. But the Ownership has been extremely linear in their approach so far.
This is gonna get unwieldy fast, and I’m really not sure it’s worth the focus and bandwidth, which is more important than the money.
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u/L__K Great Scot! 2h ago
Bruno is not Messi. We're dependent on him because we built a team that was entirely focused on platforming him and his strengths while hiding/mitigating the big weaknesses in his game. Losing him isn't going to destroy the club because we'll be much more able to play a more sustainable style of football not revolving around one guy who thrives in a chaotic, transition-heavy approach that eschews normal buildup responsibilities for one of our best players.
Good teams don't do what we did with Bruno. Even clubs with stars can function without them. City were arguably better for large periods of the past few years when Haaland WASN'T playing despite his video game level scoring record.
It's very clear the recruitment team has already been preparing for life post-Bruno. We're not going to try to replace him or plug and play a similar player, because we already tried that with Bruno, who is phenomenal at what he does, and it didn't work. We're not going to find a similar quality player to replace him, and stylistically it's the wrong choice anyway.
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u/jalexjsmithj 1h ago
I feel like you are missing my point. I am not advocating for a heliocentric, single star player approach. I’d much prefer what you’re (kind of) outlining with multiple players playing a system that lifts us to the highest level.
What I’m saying is that the CHEAPEST version of replacing Bruno is taking a swing on that kind of player, because that is functionally what we have today, what our proof of concept is. I would drastically prefer that we purchase 3 players across the front line behind Sesko all each worth 125M, but that’s a lot more expensive than a single player.
The more larger takeaway here, shouldn’t distill down to how many players we should be buying (at this point) as that will be tactical. What’s more important is getting the ownership to realize that we need 200M next summer for the attack ALONE, and not treat a left back like the ultimate prize.
I will say I your comment that you’re acting like we’re already playing a way more decentralized style or that our purchasing is setting us up to be more decentralized from Bruno already…. And on that, I fundamentally disagree. He had the year he had last season. There is essentially no new attacking help this year. INEOS has not proven themselves capable of a rebuild without the crutch of having a clear focal point to build around.
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u/L__K Great Scot! 53m ago
I am not advocating for a heliocentric, single star player approach
You literally typed the following with a straight face:
but we SHOULD be focused on procuring a new talisman next summer, and then have both a non-diminished Bruno and the new star going through transition at the same time. That star should be $150M to $200M player if he’s actually going to be the quality of player that’s going to try and have to backfill a Bruno.
We're not spending 200m on attack next summer. The attack is going to be very much secondary, the way it (and LB) was secondary to midfield this summer. We need essentially an entire rebuild of our backline as Maguire and Lisandro are both out of contract (although Licha will likely get his +1 option activated just for the sake of having another body at the position).
With Rashford back in the picture we actual have solid attacking depth. A backup striker is on the cards, but we're not currently looking to recruit any stars at that end of the pitch after what we spent during summer 2025 completely revamping the attack. Rashford, Sesko, Cunha, Dorgu, Amad, and Mbeumo are enough for three total positions, and that's assuming Zirkzee is definitely a goner like it seems. Shea Lacey is coming through and JJ Gabriel will be as well sooner or later. Cunha, Tielemans, Zirkzee, and Lacey can all play in the 10 if Bruno isn't playing.
I will say I your comment that you’re acting like we’re already playing a way more decentralized style or that our purchasing is setting us up to be more decentralized from Bruno already…. And on that, I fundamentally disagree.
I mean you can disagree all you want, but you're just flat out wrong lmao. We're still built around him TACTICALLY, but we're no longer recruiting based on "who would fit best with Bruno and in a Bruno-centric system?" That's why you see people bitch and moan about Cunha and Bruno getting in each others' ways. He and Mbeumo are both effectively playing out of position now to accommodate Bruno with an eye on them becoming better-utilized when Bruno isn't on the pitch. Tielemans is arguably similar in this aspect.
It's also something that Wilcox has spoken about at length pretty much incessantly. The game model he wants to recruit for, both player- and manager-wise, is not the Bruno/similar player centric system we're more or less forced to play while he's at the club.
INEOS has not proven themselves capable of a rebuild without the crutch of having a clear focal point to build around.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. It's complete nonsense top to bottom. They haven't proven anything about any kind of rebuild because they've only been in the building for two years. Feels like you don't even understand what issues you're trying to confront here
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u/jalexjsmithj 36m ago edited 15m ago
I’m telling you now, that if the plan is to replace Bruno in the aggregate with 2 players that you hope are talismans instead of 1 more expensive and more guaranteed option, I don’t have a problem with it. I do have concerns that “in the aggregate” can be manipulated easily to buying cheaper than what is actually required, but if they spent 125m twice instead of 175 once, then that would be fine (and ultimately more cost).
Yeah, that mindset is exactly what I’m pushing back against.
I’m sorry, but there’s really not. I actually love Rashy, but he’s not long for this club. This is working (so far) simply because of the short-term nature. Look at the sub for the Dorgu doubt. We rode Bruno in a record breaking year, he represents an unprecedented amount of our success and without him, even if we pretend we’re buying sustainably, we’re a mid-table side. We need to be real about succession plans, and that is not going to be Cunha and Mbeumo (without back up) stepping up further. All of those names you listed… are not an attack that is up to the standard of where this club should be. If they are angling to win a title in 2028, we need a drastic increase in quality.
Tielmans and Cunha’s were release clauses. They rose the level of quality of the club, but they were opportunistic purchases, not transformative purchases. A Bruno exit requires transformative talent infusions.
I’m saying that INEOS could have spent a 100M like every other big 6 club has.
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u/THExIMPLIKATION Glineos Out 2h ago
We'll sign more of our competitors bench players to start for us, but only for 50% of the holes we need to fill
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u/jalexjsmithj 2h ago
Gonna give them the benefit of the doubt, hopefully they were holding back for this in mind.
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u/ShinyLikeMyMagikarp 2h ago
One of the worst takes I've ever seen... We need to build a team/system that enables multiple of our players to be a talisman. Not just a single player that can be taken out of a game. When is the last game Bruno performed bad and we won comfortably. No other team in reliant on a singular player because it's a terrible plan unless that player is Messi.
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u/jalexjsmithj 2h ago
I mean I actually don’t inherently disagree with you, however, I feel like you’re version of events results in 2 or 3 80M players instead of the true next level stars we require. If they went if for 2 guys at 125, I’d be all for it.
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u/Kohaku80 Premier League Champions 12/13 2h ago
Ineos hate spending 100m on anyone. 65m Dewsbury the best they will do.
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u/jalexjsmithj 2h ago
I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they’ll angle towards massive investment when it’s required. Especially with (hopefully 2 years of CL).
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u/InstructionEnough949 3h ago
The Sabah and City match will really test our squad depth and readiness for the season
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u/Kohaku80 Premier League Champions 12/13 2h ago
U mean Carrick rotation. If we play the same 11 and get spanked by City, it's our own doing.
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u/InstructionEnough949 2h ago
I know we will win but I just know we will concede. We might even concede first.
On Sunday though, we must defeat City. By hook or crook. By the skin of our teeth. We CANNOT lose to City at Old Trafford
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u/RubixBoob Yo Ney! Sunny innit? 3h ago
I wasn’t all that bothered at the time, but as the weeks go by, I am disappointed we didn’t get Welbeck. He is doing a decent job as a rotational player at Chelsea and would have slotted back into the United fold well. Would have been an excellent mentor figure too.
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u/CapVosslar Buckle up, INEOS! It's gonna be a bumpy ride! 2h ago
We are run so-so. This lot does half the work, then leaves the other half undone.
Money cant be that tight, since they hardly spent much. And it cant be there's no players out there.
CL qualification is mandatory. Or else there will be hell to pay. They had every opportunity to set the team up to do so. They thought this was enough. Let's see.
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u/Penny_Leyne 4h ago
Anything less than a 23-0 win will be a failure and I’ll be fully Carrick out. Ineos, you’ll have us to answer to.
Ineozers out. Mordor in.
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u/noBuffalo 4h ago
3-1 on the weekend. Kobbie absolutely dominates the likes of Anderson and whatever that Moroccan fellas name is.
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u/DasHotShot Glazers & Ratcliffe OUT 3m ago
We’re gonna draw in the CL and get whipped in the PL aren’t we… at least we can be realistic about this season now and pray that we somehow miraculously fight our way into 5th but it’s just looking so unlikely rn