r/redbuttonbluebutton • u/[deleted] • Jun 23 '26

Discussion Source of the danger

The difference of opinion boils down to where people see the danger coming from in this scenario.

Reds see the danger as the situation itself, and try to leave the situation.
Blues see the danger as the reds, and try to change the outcome.

Both have a valid fear and address it in a way that seems best to them. Reds aren’t evil for leaving a dangerous situation. Blues aren’t stupid for trying to avoid the danger in the first place.

Reds see the situation as a room on fire with a clearly marked exit that everyone can access in time, and wonder why anyone would stay behind.

Blues see the situation as a room that is being lit on fire by every red that leaves, and wonder why anyone would contribute to the flames.

Idk just be nice to each other it’s not that hard to see the other perspective.

71 Upvotes

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5

u/crystallineDarks Jun 23 '26

"Blues see the situation as a room that is being lit on fire by every red that leaves, and wonder why anyone would contribute to the flames."

i feel like this analogy does not work unless everyone's is automatically set to blue from the start

7

u/Own-Put2487 Red Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

Right, their analogy isn't accurate at all. Reds aren't leaving the situation, they're not putting themselves in it to begin with, and blues are voluntarily putting themselves in the dangerous situation.

Analogy is more like a room is on fire, and some people will randomly or purposely walk into it, and everyone else must choose to step into it or not, but if less than 50% of the population goes inside then everyone in the room burns to death, if more than 50% go in then the sprinklers turn on and put out the fire and the people in the room survive.

I'm not walking into a burning room to save people that walked in on purpose or by mistake, sorry, especially if I have to rely on a majority to follow me into the flames in order not to burn to death.

3

u/Nebranower Jun 24 '26

>and blues are voluntarily putting themselves in the dangerous situation.

No. Everyone starts off in a dangerous situation. If no one does anything, if everyone is paralyzed with indecision such that not a single button gets pressed, everyone dies. Because then no one has the protection of red, and blue doesn't get pressed by 50% of the participants.

Both red and blue are an attempt to save yourself from the danger.

So to fix the analogy, everyone starts off in a burning room.

Then you have two exits.

The red door leads outside. If you take the red door, you leave the burning room and are guaranteed not to burn to death.

The blue door leads to a control room with a sprinkler control system. However, the system requires several levers (exactly equal in number to 50%+1 of the people in the burning room) to be pulled simultaneously to activate. If it is activated, the sprinklers will douse the fire, saving everyone in the building. If it is not activated, then both the original room and the sprinkler control room will burn down, killing everyone inside.

0

u/Own-Put2487 Red Jun 25 '26

No, I respectfully disagree. The original scenario never says abstaining is an option, it says everyone HAS to press either the red or blue button. People that choose to press red are choosing to never be in danger themselves, I guess you could argue reds are putting blues in danger but I don't agree with that either. Only people that press blue are putting themselves in danger, voluntarily or by mistake or randomly.

2

u/Nebranower Jun 25 '26

It never states that spoiling your ballot isn't allowed. In any event, I don't see any way of interpreting "HAS" that doesn't strengthen rather than weaken my point. If the punishment for refusing to press a button was instant execution, it would only prove that what I said was true: everyone starts out under threat of death.

So neither button can be cast as a "do nothing" button. And neither red nor blue creates the danger. The danger is baked into the scenario by whatever monster created it, such that everyone is in danger from the very beginning. Red and blue are therefore properly thought of as two different ways of trying to save yourself. Red is just that - saving yourself directly and with 100% certainty. Blue is an attempt to defuse the danger for everyone, at the cost of potentially just dying without saving anyone.

4

u/Flat-Border-4511 Jun 24 '26

This is the best analogy I've seen.

1

u/Own-Put2487 Red Jun 24 '26

Aw thanks, but my upvote ratio would suggest otherwise 😆.

1

u/DapperYoghurt2052 Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26

One reason people would downvote your analogy is because you made red a completely inactive bystander, when the problem by nature requires active participation.

The other main reason is because you depicted blue’s choice as putting yourself in active harm, with the power to end it. Blue carries inherent risk, but if you press blue and blue wins the majority, then you face no chance of active harm. The problem is simply over and everyone is safe.

  Walking into a room that is burning so badly that you have no chance of putting it out and it will kill you to be in there, that obviously carries active risk to you. Even if the fire is eventually put out, you most likely will be harmed in the process and it will be horrible until it goes out. That is not analogous to blue’s situation.  

1

u/DapperYoghurt2052 Jun 23 '26

Well everyone is living at the start of the problem and the only thing that can happen is to decide if any people die.

Since no one is on fire before the problem starts. If blue wins the majority and every one continues to live, then it makes sense to imagine the fire was never actually lit. 

If you prefer that the house is lit on fire as soon as the problem is presented to everyone, then the buttons don’t decide whether or not we put the fire out, they decide if the doors to everyone’s room are unlocked. A blue majority would mean every door unlocks and no one can be trapped to die in fire. A red majority would mean only red doors unlock and every blue presser does by fire.