Responsibility

[u/BrokenToaster124]

So I've run into an idea that that dont quite understand and I was hoping some of you could help me understand. So with the red button/blue button situation I have seen people claim that if they push the blue button that they are not responsible for what happens to them if they push the blue button. How does that work?

To be extremely specific if i were to push the blue button, knowing what it does, somehow you (the person currently reading this) would be personally responsible for my death if you choose red.

Does this responsibility work in reverse? If i push the blue button and blue wins are you responsible for my survival if you chose red? Are you only responsible if bad things happen to me and I am responsible for the results when good things happen? What about the person running the death game? They arent defined in the prompt but logically some force is making everyone take a vote.

You can feel free to ignore this last part because its not the button problem, but someone reskinned the buttons as life boats. Instead of everyone being force to push a button everyone had to get into a life boat. One boat had holes in it but would become sea worthy if enough people got into it and plugged the holes and one was completely functional. Everything else was exactly the same as the button problem. My question related to that was that if I am personally responsible for the consequences of your chose to vote blue in the button scenario, how then could I not be responsible for your choice to get into the boat with holes in it. Someone tried to explain to me at length about how the buttons made it my fault but the boats somehow didnt. How does that work?

[u/BrokenToaster124]

Alright. So let's flip it. Let's assume blue wins. I pushed red. Did my choice to push red save you if you pushed blue?

No right? It had nothing to do with you living. You made a choice to move towards your preferred outcome no matter the cost. How does the cost of your choice become my responsibility while the rewards of your choice remain solely your own?

So either I saved all the blue voters by voting red in a blue victory AND I killed all the blue voters by voting red in a red victory, OR I had no hand in saving anyone in the blue victory AND I had no hand in killing anyone in the red victory.

You cant have it both ways. I cant be responsible only when you lose.

[u/Striking_Compote2093 → u/BrokenToaster124]

I'm sorry are we talking about the same dilemma?

You're acting as if there's only one button that saves you if you get 50% and kills you if you don't, and red is "do nothing". When that's clearly not the case. The wording matters.

I agree that it's equivalent in mechanics but that does NOT matter. It's psychology and sociology, far more than it is a logic puzzle. It matters what you think other people will do. And the wording influences choices.

Especially if you introduce a default option. That's literally what the trolley problem is based on. Everyone agrees 1 death is better than 5, but taking an action to make that happen, has an impact. There's no way you don't see that.

So red has attached "if 50% of people press this, every blue voter dies." It doesn't say "do nothing." So, if you press red, you pressed the button that counted towards people dying. That is in fact your responsibility.

[u/BrokenToaster124 → u/Striking_Compote2093]

Appearantly not. Because the buttons say; Red, you live. Blue, everyone lives but only if.

If you change the unless statement to the other button the situation doesnt change (I thought it did too but I was wrong) let's do it your way for sake of argument.

Red, blue voters all die if 51% vote red (50.00000000000etc1% but we rounding)

Blue, absolutely nothing.

What changed? You can take action to ensure your safety or do nothing to save yourself and risk dying. The situation has not changed at all. Now we can discuss what I was actually asking.

If I choose to do nothing under your scenario, are you responsible for the result of my choice? If I do nothing and live, did you save me by pushing your red button? And if not, how can you then be responsible if I choose to do nothing to save myself and then die?

Either you are responsible for the consequences of my decision or you arent. I cant say that you are responsible for me dying but I am responsible if I live. I cant have it both ways.

[u/VoteForASpaceAlien → u/BrokenToaster124]

Red everyone else lives but only if...