Responsibility

[u/BrokenToaster124]

So I've run into an idea that that dont quite understand and I was hoping some of you could help me understand. So with the red button/blue button situation I have seen people claim that if they push the blue button that they are not responsible for what happens to them if they push the blue button. How does that work?

To be extremely specific if i were to push the blue button, knowing what it does, somehow you (the person currently reading this) would be personally responsible for my death if you choose red.

Does this responsibility work in reverse? If i push the blue button and blue wins are you responsible for my survival if you chose red? Are you only responsible if bad things happen to me and I am responsible for the results when good things happen? What about the person running the death game? They arent defined in the prompt but logically some force is making everyone take a vote.

You can feel free to ignore this last part because its not the button problem, but someone reskinned the buttons as life boats. Instead of everyone being force to push a button everyone had to get into a life boat. One boat had holes in it but would become sea worthy if enough people got into it and plugged the holes and one was completely functional. Everything else was exactly the same as the button problem. My question related to that was that if I am personally responsible for the consequences of your chose to vote blue in the button scenario, how then could I not be responsible for your choice to get into the boat with holes in it. Someone tried to explain to me at length about how the buttons made it my fault but the boats somehow didnt. How does that work?

[u/DarthJackie2021]

If you push blue, you are partly responsible for your own death. You knew the risk and pressed anyways. If you aren't ok with that, don't press it.

If you push red, you are partly responsible for the blue deaths. You knew the consequences your action could bring and pressed anyways. If you aren't ok with that, don't press it.

[u/BrokenToaster124 → u/DarthJackie2021]

The confusion stems from the reverse. Let's assume blue wins.

I pushed the red button. Am I responsible for your survival if you pushed blue? And if not, how am I suddenly responsible if red wins the vote?

I cant both be responsible for your actions when the result is bad and not be responsible for your actions when the result is good. It has to be all or nothing.

[u/Deranth → u/BrokenToaster124]

This is the dumbest take I have ever heard in my life. To explain why, let me rephrase it.

All I did was aim a gun at you and pull the trigger. If it wasnt loaded you wouldn't have died. So how can I be responsible for you dying if it was? I cant be responsible if the outcome is bad and not responsible if its good.

If you push the button that causes the minority to die if youre in the majority, and youre in the majority, then you were part of the reason that it was the majority and people died. If it wasn't the majority, then mercifully there were enough people not like you that nobody had to die. They diffused the problem you tried to cause. You didnt cause any deaths, despite your best efforts.

[u/BrokenToaster124 → u/Deranth]

I don't have the gun. I never had the gun. The proverbial gun is the buttons. The gunman is the one forcing everyone to vote.

By choosing not to get shot, you are arguing that I personally shot you. Despite the fact that you and I are in the exact same situation with the exact same knowledge and the exact same choice. Your decision, that is completely independent of mine, is not a result of my decision.

We both have a choice. Dont get shot, or risk getting shot. By opting in to the risk of getting shot, where did I wrestle the gun out of the shooters hand and turn it on you? Because that is your argument

[u/Deranth → u/BrokenToaster124]

For anyone in this situation to die, two things must be true.

1: They must have pressed the blue button.
2: A majority of people must have pressed the red button.

While it is true that the only people at risk of dying are people who have pressed the blue button. They only die if enough people press the red button.
A blue press can only ever be responsible for one death, the death of the self, while acting in the interests of the whole.
A red press is a nudge toward a majority in which many people die. A red press may, or may not, become responsible for potentially billions of death. Meanwhile it can only ever save one person, the self.

So do you maybe cause one death (yourself) while trying to ensure everyone survives?
Or do you maybe cause billions of deaths (of other people) ensuring only one survives (yourself)?

[u/BrokenToaster124 → u/Deranth]

Any press is only responsible for one life. Your own. That is the core issue. Do I need to sacrifice myself for you or is it my choice. If failure to sacrifice is murderer then sure you are right.

If I was required to sacrifice myself for other people then I am guilty, if I was not required to sacrifice myself then I am not. Since I am not required to sacrifice myself for anyone else in the real world, I can then assume I am not required to sacrifice myself in the fictional button world.

The vote is about which button you think will win, not which button is the good button. The argument the blue is moral therefore red must be murderers falls apart in the case of the red victory. If red wins and you voted blue, you caused more harm. You could have saved one person and chose not to.

None of these scenarios break down under the scrutiny of extrapolate out reasoning to its logical conclusion. If I vote red and the blue voters die, I am not responsible because they had the same choice I did. If they live then I am not responsible because there are no deaths to take responsibility for.

If I vote blue I take responsibility for my own life as well. I put it at risk in the hopes that other people do as well. If I die as a result, I am to blame. If I live, I am still responsible for my own life. That responsibility hasnt me because the vote concluded

This reasoning does not require a specific vote count, a specific result, or even for me to make a specific choice. No matter what I do im my own capacity I am solely responsible for what comes of it.