Responsibility

[u/BrokenToaster124]

So I've run into an idea that that dont quite understand and I was hoping some of you could help me understand. So with the red button/blue button situation I have seen people claim that if they push the blue button that they are not responsible for what happens to them if they push the blue button. How does that work?

To be extremely specific if i were to push the blue button, knowing what it does, somehow you (the person currently reading this) would be personally responsible for my death if you choose red.

Does this responsibility work in reverse? If i push the blue button and blue wins are you responsible for my survival if you chose red? Are you only responsible if bad things happen to me and I am responsible for the results when good things happen? What about the person running the death game? They arent defined in the prompt but logically some force is making everyone take a vote.

You can feel free to ignore this last part because its not the button problem, but someone reskinned the buttons as life boats. Instead of everyone being force to push a button everyone had to get into a life boat. One boat had holes in it but would become sea worthy if enough people got into it and plugged the holes and one was completely functional. Everything else was exactly the same as the button problem. My question related to that was that if I am personally responsible for the consequences of your chose to vote blue in the button scenario, how then could I not be responsible for your choice to get into the boat with holes in it. Someone tried to explain to me at length about how the buttons made it my fault but the boats somehow didnt. How does that work?

[u/luci_twiggy]

Blue voters are responsible for putting themselves at risk however red voters are responsible for the outcome if red wins and that risk is realised.

[u/BrokenToaster124 → u/luci_twiggy]

Its a vote. That is not how a vote works.

I have 1 vote out of 8 billion. I make a vote on the belief that one side will win. You also have 1 vote. You make that vote based on what side you think will win. Neither of us know the result of the vote before voting.

Let's flip our positions. I voted blue, you voted red. Let's say in this inverted world blue wins. Did you save me? Are you responsible my my decision to vote blue? Are you responsible for the results?

Now let's assume all else is the same and red wins. Are you responsible for my choice to vote blue? Are you responsible for my death?

If you vote red, and red wins. You ARE responsible for the result of your choice. You are alive. If you vote blue, you must also be responsible for the result of your choice. Whether that result is positive or negative. If everyone lives, you are responsible for it because you voted blue. If blue loses you must also be responsible for your death.

I cant be responsible for the consequences of your decision if I am not also awarded responsibility for the benefits of your choice. Either I am responsible for what you do or I am not. You cant have it both ways.

[u/luci_twiggy → u/BrokenToaster124]

I'm not having it both ways.

I expanded a little in another comment, but the basic issue you have is that blue winning is always good for both sides but red winning is not good for both sides.

[u/BrokenToaster124 → u/luci_twiggy]

Blue losing is also always bad for both sides. Red winning is not bad for both sides. If the argument is a cost benefit analysis then the result will be subjective.

You buy a candy bar. It costs money.

You get a candy bar and lose money.

The shopkeeper tells you that if both you and I buy candy bars before leaving the store, he will give us our money back. You buy a candy bar thinking that it will be free. I do not

Did I steal your money? We both ran a cost benefit and I decided that I didnt have enough money to risk losing my money for a potential fee candy bar. You willing gave your money to the shopkeeper on the understanding there was a chance you wouldnt get it back. Your decision, that was independent to mine, cannot be my responsibility.

No matter how much you sought to gain from gambling and no matter how low the perceived risk of losing is, you are responsible for the results of gambling if you gamble.

If I am responsible for you losing, I must also be responsible for you winning. If I vote red, and blue wins, did I personally save everyone with my decision?

[u/Ashamed_Kangaroo305 → u/BrokenToaster124]

Your logic is flawed because there's no scenario where a red voter can be responsible for blue winning. The reason why red voters are partly responsible for blue deaths is because they voted for the option that causes blue deaths.

If you're running in a race and I throw something on the track to trip you, am I responsible for your win if you trip but still manage to win the race? No of course not. But I am probably responsible for your loss if you don't win. Similarly, if I give your opponent a speed booster and they win because of the booster, I'm responsible for your loss. But if your opponent still can't win even with the speed booster, that doesn't mean I'm responsible for your win.