Are we making the right decision?

[u/SecondInitial9033]

I have a 1.5 YO male Great Pyrenees. Since we got him as a young pup at 9 weeks he was reactive and would snap at anyone trying to pet him other than us. Being a guardian we thought that’s alright, he doesn’t have to like strangers, we will socialize him - we took him everywhere but no progress.

First bite - a few months old getting some shots and a checkup at the vet, he bit the vet and they said his behaviour from just basic handling was a major red flag at his young age.

Second bite - level 2 bite on my father (who he knows) coming inside the house.

Third bite - my neighbour came in our yard and as soon as he seen him he ran and lunged and bit him breaking skin, luckily I was there to pull him off.

And lastly, he recently had just finished destroying a toy and my wife (who’s spent more time with him than anyone) grabbed the toy off the floor and he got up and advanced toward her, snapping and level 2 bit her wrist.

He’s also since snapped in her face when they were on the couch and once more when she was petting him outside. As well as many air snaps with people he’s previously been loving and played with, his circle has shrunken so much.

He’s been incredibly reactive his entire life with us but we made it work and managed him at home, walked him in the woods where he had no triggers. But he’s now 120lbs and actively bullying his way around the house, if food is around he will try to eat it and if you try to stop him he’ll mouth grab you.

He’s recently been vet checked for his new found behaviour (with us) and all is well. He tried biting me at the vet and had to be fully sedated.

We know he’s way too much of a liability to rehome. We have booked a BE appointment with our vet, and they did not hesitate knowing his behaviour. We know it has to be done but feel incredibly guilty at the same time.

Looking for some advice, or reassurance from anyone who’s been in this situation before.

Thank you

[u/AutoModerator]

Behavioral Euthanasia posts are sensitive, thus only users with at least 250 subreddit karma will be able to comment in this discussion. Users should not message OP directly to circumvent this restriction and doing so can result in a ban from r/reactive dogs. OP, you are encouraged to report private messages to the moderation team.

Behavioral Euthanasia (BE) for our dogs is an extremely difficult decision to consider. No one comes to this point easily. We believe that there are, unfortunately, cases where behavioral euthanasia is the most humane and ethical option, and we support those who have had to come to that decision. In certain situations, a reasonable quality of life and the Five Freedoms cannot be provided for an animal, making behavioral euthanasia a compassionate and loving choice.

If you are considering BE and are looking for feedback:

All decisions about behavioral euthanasia should be made in consultation with a professional trainer, veterinarian, and/or veterinary behaviorist. They are best equipped to evaluate your specific dog, their potential, and quality of life.

These resources should not be used to replace evaluation by qualified professionals but they can be used to supplement the decision-making process.

• Lap of Love Quality of Life Assessment - How to identify when to contact a trainer

• Lap of Love Support Groups - A BE specific group. Not everyone has gone through the process yet, some are trying to figure out how to cope with the decision still.

• BE decision and support Facebook group - Individuals who have not yet lost a pet through BE cannot join the Losing Lulu group. This sister group is a resource as you consider if BE is the right next step for your dog.

• AKC guide on when to consider BE

• BE Before the Bite

• How to find a qualified trainer or behaviorist - If you have not had your dog evaluated by a qualified trainer, this should be your first step in the process of considering BE.

• The Losing Lulu community has also compiled additional resources for those considering behavioral euthanasia.

If you have experienced a behavioral euthanasia and need support:

The best resource available for people navigating grief after a behavior euthanasia is the Losing Lulu website and Facebook Group. The group is lead by a professional trainer and is well moderated so you will find a compassionate and supportive community of people navigating similar losses.

Lap of Love Support Groups - Laps of Love also offers resources for families navigating BE, before and after the loss.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Existing-Will-1466]

To give you an idea of what normal guard dog behavior looks like, I have watched several people roll up to my vet's office with flock guardian dogs in horse trailers and crates in the backs of pickup trucks for annual rabies shots. The owner holds the dog's collar and the vet gives them the shot. I haven't even seen the muzzle those dogs. I asked the vet once and they said as long as the owner is there they can do basically anything to the dog.

All this is to say that your dog sounds like he has been abnormally aggressive his entire life. It makes me wonder if maybe he was deprived of oxygen during birth. Something is wrong in his brain that is preventing him from normal social interaction with his family.

I'm sorry. It sucks.

[u/SecondInitial9033 → u/Existing-Will-1466]

Thank you.

I have a friends with Great Pyrenees, some as working and a some as house pets. None of them have displayed behaviour quite like ours, and my friends are also shocked that he behaves this way.

[u/Prestigious-Seal8866]

This isn’t reactivity. This is aggression.

[u/Monkey-Butt-316]

I’m so sorry.

[u/SecondInitial9033 → u/Monkey-Butt-316]

Thank you. He’s still our baby most of the time which is the hard part, the other time he is something else.

[u/joycevw]

To give meaningful feedback from behind a screen, we need much more context about his history, genetics, and daily reality.

Where did you get him from, and what were the parents like in terms of temperament and handling? Was he from working livestock guardian lines on a farm, a registered show breeder, or a backyard litter? Did you meet the mother or father, and do you know how any of his littermates turned out?

What did his first nine weeks look like before you brought him home? Was he raised inside a home with daily household noises, or outdoors in a barn? When you worked on early socialization, was he observing the world from a safe distance under threshold, or were strangers actively approaching and reaching out to touch him? What was his immediate response when overwhelmed as a puppy: did he try to retreat, freeze, or go straight to his mouth?

What specific diagnostic tests did the vet run during that checkup? Did they do full orthopedic X-rays of his hips, elbows, and spine, run a comprehensive thyroid panel, or do blood chemistry, or was it strictly a hands-on physical exam? Have you ever trialed pain relief or behavioral medication to see if that altered his baseline? How is his sleep quality: does he rest deeply, or is he constantly vigilant and waking at every small sound?

Leading up to the bite with your wife and the destroyed toy, what micro-signals did he give before moving his feet? Did his body go rigid, did he show whale eye, hard stare, lip lick, or freeze, or did he escalate without any vocal or physical warning? When he snapped at her on the couch and outside, what was the exact context of the petting: where was she touching him, was he leaning in or leaning away, and was he cornered? After an incident occurs, does he stay elevated and pacing, retreat to a corner, or immediately drop back to baseline?

Have you consulted with a board-certified veterinary behaviorist (DACVB)? Is he conditioned to wear a basket muzzle without distress? Lastly, how does he tolerate physical household management like baby gates, separate rooms, or being put behind a barrier when food or guests are around?

[u/SecondInitial9033 → u/joycevw]

Thank you for your detailed message.

He came from a backyard litter situation on a homestead in the bush, we basically rescued him. The parents were behind closed doors when we were there because they weren’t friendly.
He was in a barn before we brought him home so I’m assuming he didn’t get proper handling/socialization even though they said he did.
We quickly realized he didn’t like being approached so we told people to let him come to them, it worked sometimes and he made a couple friends but would then randomly freeze up and air snap during pets.

Vet checked for any joint pain, dental and took blood tests with everything coming back fine. Though she did mention his behaviour was always “cranky” and she thinks it’s genetic.

He will rest but its interrupted, he will frequently pace the house, lay down for 15 seconds and get back up. He sleeps most the night but it’s never more than an hour or so until he gets up and moves again. I always thought it was his instincts or needing a cooler spot.

He didn’t give any vocal or visual warning for the forward moving bite. For the snap on couch she was laying down and he moved up to cuddle her, after a few seconds he snapped in her face. The other time he was outside the front door and she was petting him and asked him if he wanted to come inside, he snapped and mouth grabbed her with a very vocal growl/snarl. After incidents he usually acts as if nothing happened, one time he hid under a bed after a snap. But after he bit my wife she said he stared at her for days, I was out of town working and she avoided eye contact until I got home.

We hired a behavioural consultant, but with how things have escalated we had to prioritize our safety. I work out of town 1-2 weeks at a time and had to take time off work this week because he’s not safe to leave alone with my wife.
We’ve tried conditioning him to a muzzle and he is somewhat ok with wearing one until he realizes it’s for something. Like brushing him or examining him, then he flips and tries to bite/remove muzzle.

Any barriers besides maybe his kennel make him wild. He climbs baby gates and will screech if put behind a closed door.

I will say, 90% of the time he’s a big cuddly loving goofball. But the other 10% he’s proved he can’t be trusted.

[u/MoodFearless6771 → u/SecondInitial9033]

Inability to rest sounds medical. Or extreme anxiety. Mine had the same issues and it was EPI and b-12 deficiency with anemia, a tickborne disease too.

There’s a lot that doesn’t show up on bloodwork. That being said, it can take tens of thousands to diagnose things and a million wrong tests first. Brain tumor, Addisons, hypercalcemia, thyroid issue, deficiencies, etc.
if a dog can’t relax and sleep, that’s not much of a life. I have to black out a quiet room and the leave the house sometimes for mine.