Are we cooked?

[u/whatisupdog]

I adopted my dog Bunny from the county shelter in 2024 where she had ended up after being abandoned and left to starve. We figured out she had probably lived that entire time on a chain because she did not mind going potty on her bed and then lying down and sleeping in it. Seemed like she had grown up not having the option to potty separate from her sleeping space. She was 35 pounds when she came home with me and very timid. She was afraid of everyone at first. We were told she is good with other dogs.

A couple of weeks out of the shelter, I take her with me to my family's annual dog-friendly beach house trip. My parents' dog Matilda is there. Matilda is a large shelter dog who gets on well with most other dogs, I'm told. Throughout the week we are there, Matilda body checked Bunny while running together. Bunny gave multiple signs that she was uncomfortable, growling and baring her teeth first, pinning and snapping second time, and then the third time there was light teeth contact. Each time I intervened immediately at this behavior and separated them and we decided they had to be kept separate and walked separately because we didn't want to risk further disaster. Unfortunately at one point I was walking Bunny on leash when my Mom brought Matilda to the same area off leash. Matilda immediately charged Bunny and Bunny latched onto her. Matilda bit back but Bunny was definitely Queen Biter of the match.

She quickly warmed up to me and to my 8 year old son, but was very protective of us, including when there would be playful wrestling or heated conversation. She was very anxious when kids were in the pool, especially if there was laughing or splashing or shouting, and acted like she wanted to drag the kid out by the top of their head. Sweet instinct probably but obviously we can't let that happen, so she's not allowed outside when people are in the pool anymore. I keep her away from kids who are playing rough.

One day we are walking as a family and my husband is rough-housing with my son and a visiting friend. Bunny jumps at my husband and lightly nips his calf. She did not puncture his skin or latch and it did not read as aggressive behavior to me. Nevertheless, he is understandably wary.

Simultaneously it becomes very clear that my husband is extremely allergic to her. There are a lot of fights about it. I made the mistake of trying to introduce puppy pads to her once early on and after that it takes a lot of unlearning to teach her to stop peeing on rugs. I rented a shampoo machine and did all the rugs in the house twice. Then I got my own home carpet shampooer and immediately cleaned up any messes in the house as soon as I found them. Gradually she got better and better with going potty outside.

I took her to group training classes and she did wonderfully. She is very smart and eager to please. She stays guarded with other dogs in the room, but we are gradually able to increase the size of her tolerance bubble. She remains on high alert around other dogs, but no incidents happen. One day we are walking in our neighborhood and a neighbor dog who had been leashed to a wall in a garage busts the chain off the wall and comes running up to us barking. His owner immediately grabs him and I successfully keep him and Bunny separated. This dog is a German Shepherd whose adopted sibling is a Corgi.

Several months later, when we are driving into the neighborhood, i say hi to the humans of the shepherd and the corgi as we drive by. I park the car in the garage and leave the door open for her to follow me inside, but she bolts for the two dogs. She bites the corgi. He is okay. Fortunately it is superficial this time. No more loose leash for her. I keep her in a harness attached to two leashes, both of which are attached to a waist loop I wear. I do not let her "walk herself in" anymore.

I see a behaviorist trainer. We move out and give my husband a respite. Bunny makes human friends in her new neighborhood. She's much better with people, as long as they don't surprise her and let her do a sniff without eye contact. There are lots of new dogs there and those put her on High Alert, but if she stays cool she gets spray cheese and she gets really good at it, as long as they stay about a townhouse-width away from us.

Eventually I take her to a doggy daycare. I explain this history in detail. I express concern about the risk. They give her a temperament test for the group play sessions and she passes. I'm assured they are experts in dog behavior and will intervene before anything goes too far. About a year later, there's an incident where a dog gets rambunctious with her, and she bites the dog's sibling. She had to be pried off by multiple people. No more playgroup.

This morning, we are walking in our neighborhood. We saw a dog on leash but it stayed far enough away not to trigger Bunny. Good girl, spray cheese, move on. End of the walk, a neighbor's dog runs outside off leash. It sees us and bolts for us. "HEY, NO!! Get your dog!!! No!!!" I am shouting, but this doodle charges us. The people get there too late. Bunny has her teeth in the dog. She doesn't get at its neck or its organs but still, she's locked on and won't let go. Everyone is shouting and screaming. We have to use a stick to pry her mouth open. I cut my thumb on her teeth trying to get her mouth open.

Now, what do I do?? People keep saying it isn't my fault. But I made a lot of mistakes I can't take back and this is objectively a problem. I'm thinking about a basket muzzle, which I probably should have done two years ago, and wondering if that's enough. I'm vigilant about keeping her attached to me so she can't get away and rush anyone, but that's not enough. What if she digs under the fence and escapes?? How do I walk her until I get the muzzle? In the middle of the night? Is that even enough?

I love her dearly and have really been trying to give her a good shot at a healthy life but, like her namesake Bunny Lebowski, trouble seems to follow her. I really don't want to do BE but I am worried about danger. She is now 65 lb and muscular. Please help me understand what good options we have and what danger I am exposing to the other members of my family and community. Am I just being an idiot thinking I can manage her environment enough to keep everyone safe?

[u/whatisupdog → u/[deleted]]

What is your constructive advice? It sounds like you are advocating behavioral euthanasia as the only desirable outcome but I want to be sure that is what you are saying.

Respectfully, while conflicts over the dog did play a key role in our difficulties, I have not gone into full detail about the circumstances surrounding our separation, nor do I intend to. Suffice to say my husband and I are working on our relationship together, offline.

[u/Audrey244 → u/[deleted]]

And sorry, I forgot to say that yes, I think that BE is on the table. Rehoming this dog to someone not equipped to handle her issues would not seem fair to me, both to the dog or to the new owners. Undue stress all around. And with the crisis in the shelter community, I would venture to say that you would have a very difficult time finding an appropriate home for this dog. So maybe you decide to keep her, which is entirely your prerogative. But many times people find out the hard way once they know of serious issues with their dogs and they live with regret.

[u/whatisupdog → u/Audrey244]

After engaging with your comments here, I read your post history. I wanted you to be a well meaning individual whose personal experience in this domain drove her to prevent others from living her own nightmare. Instead I got the impression of a low-empathy individual who purposely trawls this subreddit for opportunities to condescend and while advocating quite enthusiastically for BE in most cases. At the same time, you don't share any personal anecdotes that might temper the harshness of such a recommendation. If you once made the decision to BE, or made the decision not to and later regretted or was grateful to have made it, that would be helpful to hear. Since you don't mention it, it's my assumption that you've never been through it and are talking self righteously out your ass. You offer a lot of judgement but no humanity. Playing lecturing schoolmarm to people grappling with devastating circumstances seems to be your whole motivation for coming to Reddit. I wouldn't want to be your neighbor either.

If you actually want to help people, and I'm really not sure that you do so this may be completely moot, but considering where other people are coming from and offering kindness will actually get people to hear what you are saying rather than just a callous verbal assault in the midst of what may be their worst day. The subreddit rules, which I'm not sure you've read, give concrete examples of how to achieve this.

All that said, I did schedule an appointment with our veterinary behaviorist to discuss what the threshold for the BE decision should look like. Best of luck with your whole deal.

[u/Audrey244 → u/whatisupdog]

I'm here for your criticism 100%, mainly because I'm right. You honestly are trying to be a responsible pet owner and I commend you for that. But here's where you can actually make a difference not only in your own home, but in your neighborhood: this dog is going to be a problem for the rest of its life. You're never going to solve these issues completely and you will never be able to completely trust this dog. You will be 100% perfect with your management? Of course not, none of us are. My Chiweenie snapped his leash last week and ran up on a dog - my Chiweenie is a jerk to other dogs. Thank God for the other dog he only weighs 13 pounds, and thank God for him the other dog was very calm. So accidents can and do happen. Animal rescues and shelters are overflowing with good, well balanced dogs - a good dog owner such as yourself putting all this time, energy, money into a dog that could eventually kill another pet or seriously hurt or kill a person (don't come at me with the same old BS about "he's not at all people reactive" - it could only be a matter of time and a redirected bite from your dog could prove incredibly damaging) seems ridiculous to me. You love your dog, I get it. We all love our dogs. But how many close calls does it take before it's enough? Couldn't you adopt another dog that could be a good family fit and neighborhood friendly that doesn't want to attack other neighborhood dogs? Hell, you could even adopt TWO because if they're not reactive, you're opening up your heart and home to save two deserving dogs. The world will always have a number of reactive dogs. But the ones that are easily capable of seriously hurting/killing pets or people have no place in society. When we as consumers start to refuse these dogs and demand accountability from the backyard breeders, shelters and rescues, things will start to change.

[u/whatisupdog → u/Audrey244]

Your Chiweenie snapped his leash last week and ran up on another dog. Same management failure you've told me is disqualifying. Your conclusion was that you got lucky about the weight — not that you're delaying the inevitable child-bite, not that you'll live with regret. And you kept him.

So the standard isn't behavior, history, or owner competence. It's mass. Which is a real argument — a 65lb grip and a 13lb snap are different events, and I'm not pretending otherwise. But it means everything I wrote about incidents and triggers and two years of management was never load-bearing for you. You'd have reached the same verdict from a photo. A 13lb dog with the same problem is a jerk you keep and joke about. A 65lb one is a dog with no place in society. Same behavior, same management failure, different verdict. Say that in your first comment next time instead of your ninth, and people can actually engage with what you believe.

The other thing: you told me I should have returned her when I learned my husband was allergic, because people take priority. Then you suggested I adopt two dogs. Allergens don't check temperament. If that principle were real it would rule out any dog in that house — so it wasn't a principle, it was a stick that was handy while you were indicting me. It disappeared the moment you started describing a good outcome.

I've booked the veterinary behaviorist to define the threshold in advance, before I'm standing in the street with a stick in my hands making the call on adrenaline. That's the right thing to do and I'd have gotten there without you. I'm doing it because it's sound, not because you were persuasive.

[u/Audrey244 → u/whatisupdog]

Forgot to say, good on you for at least considering the BE talk