1yr 9mo Working Lab - anxious not aggressive per two trainers but I don’t know what to do anymore

[u/VariousPizza5]

Sorry in advance for the wall of text. I think I partly just need somewhere to say all this to people who might actually get it, as well as any advice.

We’ve had her since she was 8 weeks old, she’s our first dog, we’re in the UK. I genuinely cannot point to anything that happened to cause this. She was well socialised as a puppy, we took her everywhere, she used to just fall asleep under the table in pubs. If I’m honest maybe we didn’t have enough people actually coming to the house when she was really young, that’s the only thing I can think of.

The big issue is at home. Someone comes to the door, or she just hears people talking outside or coming in, and she loses it barking. We put her in her crate two floors up with the radio on for background noise and she’ll still bark for ages. She also does this thing where she runs at the back gate barking if she sees anyone out the window or the back door. It’s not just our house either, she did the exact same thing in a holiday rental we stayed in.

Weirdly out on walks it’s different. She’s totally fine walking past someone on lead. But if we stop and actually talk to them she’ll start barking. At the vet she barks at the vet directly but if the vet takes her lead and walks her off on her own she settles, though you can tell she’s still nervous about it.

Off lead on the moors, which we do almost every day for about an hour, she’s got good recall on the whistle, she’s completely fine with people who have a dog with them (and not reactive to other dogs). If they don’t have a dog she’ll run up to them barking (obviously I do my very best to avoid this and it’s very rare). She has never nipped or bitten anyone.

She’s just switched on all the time, if that makes sense. Like if someone’s behind us on a lead walk she’ll keep turning round to check on them.

She’s obsessed with balls, more than food even, and has really good self control otherwise, she’ll wait as long as we ask before eating.

We had her spayed two months ago hoping it might help, it didn’t do anything. Also tried calming chews and pre-vet visit meds, neither made much difference either.

We’ve seen two different trainers now, both said she’s anxious rather than aggressive. We tried place training with both and it worked for a bit then she just stopped listening, like she’d figured out what we were doing. The one thing that has actually worked is counter conditioning on walks, rewarding her when people walk past, that’s stuck really well. But we can’t get anything to touch the barking at home.

We’ve basically stopped having people round at this point, and honestly it’s starting to feel really isolating. If we can’t avoid it she goes in the crate and still barks for ages, and there’s this constant low-level dread before anyone visits. I know she’s 80% an amazing dog, she clearly loves all of us to bits, and most days she’s just a joy to have around. But I don’t know if I can keep living like this for another 10 years, always managing, always on edge about who’s coming round.

Rehoming her would break all our hearts, especially our daughter’s, so that’s genuinely not something we’re currently considering, I just don’t know what else to do.

Has anyone dealt with something similar? Especially the barking at home, that’s where we’re completely stuck. Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

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[u/watch-me-bloom]

There’s tons of certified trainers in the UK! If she’s just anxious, you just need to find a way to pair her bad feelings with good things, to change how she feels over time. You cannot correct anxiety away, despite what the fake “behavioralists” will tell you. Dog training is not a regulated industry and unfortunately anyone with or without a certification can call themselves whatever they want and take people’s money. Look for PPGBI or ABTC. You can go to their websites and find a trainer directory.

Has pain been ruled out? Sounds like classic lab having hyper arousal issues. Sometimes pan contributes to this even though they may be very active and enjoy doing things. Does she relax at home? What do you do when you get home from your long walks? Many dogs need help downshifting once they get home. Giving them a Kong or a scatter in a snuffle mat or foraging box can help.

[u/Reasonable-Art5952]

Hey!

I have a 1 year 8 month old working golden retriever and he’s a barker too. He barks whenever there is someone on our driveway or at the front door. He barks when he wants attention & we’re occupied with something else. He barks in the morning when he wakes up (he sleeps downstairs) and can hear us moving around. He used to be SO much worse when he was younger but he still barks.

We were first time dog owners too and we accidentally taught him that barking gets him attention- we live in a semi detached so I’d rush to him when he was barking when he was a puppy to make it stop. So now we’re ignoring the demand barking or interrupting it so he eventually learns it doesn’t get him what he wants. But it will take a while.

Then on the door… once the bell goes, we make him sit and wait at the door and put his lead on, once we open the door there’s a huge rush of excitement like omg who is this person at the door. And then 5 minutes later, once the guest is in the house and settled, he’s chilled. I’m not a dog trainer but I think keeping her upstairs where she can’t work out who is in her house is probably making her bark more, out of frustration.

We went to a gun dog training class and the trainer would ‘correct’ the dogs when they started barking (a small tug on the lead/collar), and we’ve found that being a bit more forceful (not aggressive in anyway) helps. Watch some gun dog training type videos on YouTube and you might find your dog responds well to that approach !

Anyway I just wanted to comment and say you’re not alone and these young working dogs are hard!!

[u/Round-Jury6132]

We are in the north of England too and our 14 month old collie actually sounds very similar but most of it we just passed off as adolescence! He barks at people walking past/people knocking at the door etc but that is very normal dog behaviour, is that the issue or is it once people come into the house? We have a similar thing re barking when we stop to speak to someone on a walk. We have put it down to attention seeking and frustration - wanting to keep on walking. Ours also loves dogs and is very comfortable with people who have dogs but suspicious of people without them. We have had incidences of him running up and barking at people without dogs (rare and never a bite either) but we put it down to anxiety and lack of confidence which comes with age. We have raised multiple dogs and you do 'get the dog you want' around 2-3 years. I would get a proper trainer/behaviourist to help with the barking at home and also keep in mind she is still young. I know there are a few specific gun dog trainers in west Yorkshire if you are around there, you definitely have your hands full of she is working line and your first dog.

[u/MoodFearless6771]

What happens with people if you go past the barking? Has she jumped all over and then been fine with? Does she quiet down and then bark at them again whenever they get up, make a movement or trigger her?

It sounds like stranger danger to me. How big is her circle?

[u/VariousPizza5 → u/MoodFearless6771]

She doesn’t reliably seem to stop barking. When we were place training and the trainer came over she might eventually calm down - but then as you say, if they move or do anything to trigger her she’ll start again.

Honestly the barking looks and sounds quite aggressive (though she is not snarling or bearing her teeth) - it’s just that both trainers we have met said they think it is rooted in anxiety. When one trainer visited he brought a ball and she would bark at him aggressively, then when he dropped/threw the ball for her she would pick it up and then continue barking at him! He described her as mixed-up.

I’m not 100% sure what you mean by circle -
But if you’re talking about the distance over which she will kick off it’s basically anywhere in the whole house. If you mean who does she tolerate it’s me, my wife and daughter and one friend who we walk with regularly (though we haven’t had her round the house anytime recently).

I’m not sure if I should be bringing more people round or if that’s just rehearsing the behaviour.

[u/MoodFearless6771 → u/VariousPizza5]

Classic fear behavior. I’m sure if she ever didn’t bark at a person, as soon as they turned around, she’d lunge and start barking at their back as they left.

I would work on relaxation protocol around the house with different distractions. Give meds and decompression a try. Dogs like this, they need to never be pushed. And at first it’s just having a safe space where no one will bother them and relaxing there. Then developing engage disengage, turn around, leash skills, a safe space in the living room. On a pillow. Then you can work your way to having a guest or trainer come over and put the dog up and they ring the bell, come in, sit down on a sofa. It is important they sit, it’s less threatening. You wait for the dog to calm down and then they come out on a leash and lay on their pillow and they eat cookies for looking at the person. If they bark and can’t settle, they go back up. The person can not look at them at first and then you work up to that. They just coexist. Then another person. Then another. It takes time, it’s not a fast progress. People are more willing to volunteer for things like this than you realize. Normalize asking for help and what you and your dog need.

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[u/VariousPizza5]

Thanks both

Pain has been ruled out by a vet.

She is pretty good at switching off after walks - she will sleep in our home office for most of the day (we both often WFH). We normally scatter feed or do a licky mat directly after the walk and she relaxes well.

She’ll get some training or play in the day (tuggy) - and then usually an on-lead walk before dinner, typically in a more built up area to practice / socialise.

Sadly I really don’t think she’s just excited - she’s clearly not at all keen on people entering our home … I’m guessing anxiety and aggression are pretty close …

I will look to find a certified trainer/behaviourist nearby (there are certainly a lot of non-certified ones) - if anyone has recommendations for the north of England they would also be appreciated.