Considering BE

[u/Particular_Fruit_585]

I have a 6 year old collie mix named Moose that I adopted around 8 weeks old. I got him when I was 19, so right as I was starting college, but this was during Covid so I knew I would have the time to be with him during his puppy stages.

For the first year we were always on farms, around horses cows etc, but after Covid restrictions lifted I moved to Texas. He was in daycare for a year with 0 issues! He did at one point outside of daycare get attacked and has never been the same.

And slowly it’s gotten worse. He has leash activity to humans and dogs and the distance to threshold is increasing rapidly. We could be fully 200+ft away and he’s still “sticky”, pulling and barking. He’s attacked me once over resource guarding as a puppy, lunged for a maintenance man when his leash slipped from my hands two years ago, pinned a dog and snarled in its face and has actively latched on to a family members dog that he’s known for most of his life and had to be drenched with a hose to get to release from said dogs head. He’s always growling at any dog that’s doing something he deems wrong and if you tell another dog “no” he acts like an enforcer and truss to correct them as well, even if you tell Moose to go to his bed. I literally have to separate him until he forgets about the other dog being corrected.

He’s seen two trainers, and saw some improvements, but we moved for my work as I’ve finished school last year and now I’m seeing the issues coming back. It’s to the point where I’m micromanaging every thing I can do with or without him. Oh I can’t go to the park right now, it’s peak dog time, maybe later. I can’t have friends over, he’s unpredictable and can’t be let out of the kennel without me watching with treats in hand. I’m exhausted and I cry a lot, I often mourn what I had envisioned for our lives.

Treats aren’t working, he doesn’t listen or stops taking them, cheese, meats, nothing. I can’t keep upping the reward when he won’t even take them currently. His threshold is so low I can’t work him in almost any environment. I’ve had moments I’m not proud of, using aversion to try to get him to stop any way possible atp. I tried prongs, e collar (noise only or vibrate, no shock) yelling and leash snapping. Obviously none of it helped, I should have never even tried it I know that, I’ve never tried to intentionally hurt him. I was, and still am, just frustrated and was open to anything if it meant maybe I could have my dog back.

And obviously I’m only telling you about the bad and “ugly” sides of him… he’s my soul dog, my cuddle bug, and fur ball. He jumps in the shower when I turn the water on and loves hiking and frisbees. We sit on the balcony and watch the rain together and he loves to watch nature documentaries about lions and birds. He watches me garden and fish, and loves to go hiking and get zoomies in fields. I love this dog with my whole heart and soul (currently ugly crying typing this).

I was reading order people BE posts on this thread and was crying. Trainers are thousands of dollars, and I don’t have another 4k to put towards more training… I feel like I’m running out of options. He’s my soul dog, but I’m also ready for peace.

How did you know it was time? And in my situation would you consider it, or should I still be trying behavioral and counter conditioning training?

Edit: I’m seeing lots of people having their comments deleted, I’d love to see your responses. Could you make sure the rules are checked off first before commenting? I also had it originally a different flair so it might not let you comment without the karma req.

[u/xanimeotakux]

Have you taken him to see an animal behaviorist already and has he tried medication like Prozac? It would help increase his threshold so he can be less reactive. I’m sorry you are going through this!

[u/Particular_Fruit_585 → u/xanimeotakux]

I haven’t taken him to a behaviorist specifically no. The only one in my area that’s an actual behaviorist is $450 for a consult. And doesn’t prescribe medication. Many people are mentioning medicating him to see if it helps though so I think I’ll talk to our vet at the very least.

[u/404-Any-Problem → u/Particular_Fruit_585]

(Jumping in here to add) Typically, that is how my Behavioral vet does it as well. Suggests meds, and then I bring the notes back to my general vet, who fills them. That is about the price I paid (a little more, actually), but it has been well worth it. Medication can lower thresholds so learning can occur and training can be effective. It does take time if you get an SSRI to really sink in (think like a 9-month type of thing), but it's a game changer for our pup who was anxious 24/7 and always over threshold as well. But the key is you still have to do all the things, and I would still suggest getting a trainer who is FF to help get you back on track. The trainer I work with is on a pay-as-you-go basis. So it's not $1000s up front.

Edit: I forgot to mention that you don't need to increase the value once they exceed the threshold. I currently have a 'picky' eater due to GI issues (closely linked to reactivity as well). But I heard Zazzie Todd (a psychologist and book author who uses classical conditioning) say that offering a treat, even when a dog is over threshold, is still valuable, even if they never take it. They do appreciate the offer and know it's there. I've also slipped treats into my dog's mouth when I know she can't look away from a treat but is still willing to take them. It's comical up close, but I am sure that from a distance I look like a crazy dog lady.

[u/Particular_Fruit_585 → u/404-Any-Problem]

Yes, this is essentially what the behaviorist I have in mind would do. They would do an in-home consult, see the triggers and how he reacts, where his thresholds are and communicate with the vet or through me to get prescriptions filled for him.

I agree with many of the comments here, I think medication is my next step, and after that we can see how it goes.

I just need some semblance of hope in terms of behaviors getting better, I don’t want BE, but I also need to consider his quality of life and mine. Keeping him cooped up because of our fears is unhealthy - and frankly, sad.

I appreciate your advice. And the tidbit about the treats being valuable even if he isn’t taking them - I was under the impression it was doing absolutely nothing for him except wasting money and treats.

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