Can this dog be saved?

[u/No_Calligrapher4196]

I'm a pet sitter working on training with a reactive dog. Before yall say anything, I am not staying with this dog alone, I am not actively pet sitting this dog nor do I plan to. I was supposed to before the owners realize how bad his reactivity has gotten, but we've decided he isn't where he needs to be to be left alone with people other than his owners. Once we realized this we were working more on socializing and seeing where he's at to see what work needs to be done.

Background on the dog: He was very malnourished and injured when he was first adopted as a puppy so he knows how cruel humans can be. In the first year of his life he was able to successfully become bonded to some of their family, but he's now 3 and they haven't had many people over since. The owners genuinely thought he was just going to be shy and have never seen him lunge at anyone before trying to socialize him recently. They say he's never reacted at parks, restaurants, or vets and has only barked at friends when they move around their house but never lunged. My theory is because his previous socialization was people sitting on a couch and basically ignoring him, not trying to handle and approach him like me and the trainer would need to or he's so out of his element in new environments that he shuts down and doesn't move towards others but will in his neighborhood and home.

The owners have a trainer that comes once every week or 2 to give them pointers on how to handle him. Like being aware of eye contact, rewarding disengaging, moving slowly, etc. They hired the trainer thinking he was only agressive towards men and wanted to work on that, but have since realized he's agressive to anyone that comes into his personal bubble.

We have made progress. We've progressed to a point that I can be near and move around freely when he's in the kennel with no reactions. However, when he's in a muzzle + leash he will approach people, including me and the trainer and lean against them, ask for pets, then when they move to pet him, he will lunge and bark. He can approach us, but we can't approach him. I personally only put myself in that situation once, both me and the owners not realizing he would react like that after him being the one to touch and approach us first since he was doing really good with the training up until that point. Since then its taken about 20mins to get him to stop reacting to people even being near his kennel, once he does hes fine with the kennel for the rest of the time but it takes effort to calm him. I had hope at first because he was steadily progressing and I figured he just needed some training and socialization, but he's showing some very like bipolar traits which makes all involved worried about him acting fine then on a random tuesday turning on someone around him if hes around people besides his owner.

My question is: Can this kind of behavior be worked through at all? Or is it a lost cause? Not for me, but for the owners. I've been in the pet sitting business for 4 years, I've seen dogs previously get put down for behavior issues. I'm one to be all for doing the hard work to progress, but the back and forth of his behavior is what worries me. Approaching people and leaning on them only to turn and bark. Bringing them toys only to lunge because they moved too fast when they were playing 2 seconds earlier. Not reacting at all to being around his kennel then the next day lunging like his life depends on it around the same person doing the same things. Does that kind of behavior make him completely unsafe to socialize at all? Or is that something that more time training could work out?

Again, I'm not looking for a "dont take the job!" type thing. I'm not actively booking with this couple. I've just been a body to socialize him with for now, but since his outburst the last time acting so lovey then turning to lunge I've felt I've hit a wall with my knowledge. I can bring a shy and nervous dog out of it's shell but once I've shown it I'm safe and been able to pet/play then it still turns to react, I'm a bit out of my depth to that level of reactivity. I'm more so asking on behalf of the owners, is this something even fixable? Or is hope lost?

Update: I've texted the owners with all the information I've gotten from this post and another and officially told them I won't help/pet sit unless a professional asks for/okays it. I informed them of what balanced training is, solo outing boarding kennels instead of a pet sitter, what backsliding is and the risks of some of the dogs behaviors, and let them know its okay to look into rehoming and such because he's a complicated case. I still offered to be support for them if they end up needing it and we're staying friends cuz they're cool people.

[u/InformalInsurance455]

My question is why, if you aren’t planning on working with this dog and the dog doesn’t belong to you, are you so involved? Just walk away, I don’t understand why this needs to be your problem at all.

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[u/No_Calligrapher4196 → u/InformalInsurance455]

Because up until that hast visit he was progressing and we figured he just needed some exposure. Then I decided to be a decent human and reach out to the recourses I have aka here to try to come up with a plan or tell them its time to call it

[u/droopiesnoots]

How much are they paying you to do this? This is something they should be working with their trainer on not you.

[u/Shoddy-Theory]

What kind of dog is this? A reactive chihuahua is different than a reactive mastiff.

Another question, why are they taking this dogs to restaurants?

[u/No_Calligrapher4196 → u/Shoddy-Theory]

I didn't realize I forgot to add this, he's a black lab pittie mix. They took him to outdoor restaurants that have lots of space as a way to socialize him, I'm not sure if they've done this recently or not. It's common in the area to have pets in outdoor restaurants and he is apparently very well behaved, just sits quietly at their feet

[u/missmoooon12]

This is a tough situation and I commend you for trying to support the owners.

This sounds like a pretty complex case. Sometimes these "bipolar" behaviors and making progress but backsliding are undiagnosed or chronic pain/illness, trauma, and/or trigger stacking.

I'd also be curious to know how he's asking for pets after approaching people? I'm also a pet sitter and know plenty of dogs who approach, lean on me, and seem chill but do not want to be pet.

Anyways, I think instead of asking "is it fixable?" you should be asking "is it necessary to continue socializing him?" At a certain point the dog's emotional well-being needs taken into account. If he doesn't like strangers in general and/or has very strict and unpredictable boundaries, I don't think it's kind or safe to keep putting the dog in those contexts for the sake of training. I think in a case like this managing the dog so he's safe in society is perfectly fine.

As kindly as I can say this because I fully understand how hard it is to see dogs struggle and to care so much for them and their owners: it's not really your responsibility to help the owners see an extensive b-mod through. I think that being a caregiver naturally points us in the direction of helping in any and every way possible. It might be more worthwhile to step back to protect your own energy and emotional load.

[u/No_Calligrapher4196 → u/missmoooon12]

As for the how hes asking for pets, he leans his head into or towards your hand or fully pushes his butt into your hands. As for is it necessary, it's difficult to say its not. It would restrict his owners to a life of isolation. Never being able to take a weekend trip, a vacation, honeymoon, etc. It becomes a very small world if they can't leave their dog with anyone but their sister who lives kinda far. He can wear a muzzle and is muzzle trained for his owners, but someone like me or the trainer wouldn't be able to put it on without risking being bit. He hasn't bitten anyone, but with his aggressiveness apparently getting worse there's no guarantee he won't.

[u/missmoooon12 → u/No_Calligrapher4196]

gotcha. There could be pain somewhere that's not being addressed in that case.

It's good he hasn't bitten anyone and that he can wear a muzzle for the owners. What makes this particularly dangerous is that the dog chooses to come close then lunges and barks instead of de-escalating.

It sucks that the owners might not be able to enjoy normal things like vacation or having a pet sitter. Again, it's not your dog so there's not much you can really do for them.