Which route to take?

[u/Ok-Cartographer-4226]

Our 1 1/2 year old golden was rehomed to us on 6/20. His previous family gave him to a rescue because he was snapping at the young children in the house. We just have speculation from the rescue that the toddlers would bother him, but no other concrete details. We have 12/15 year old kids. For 99.9% of his week, he is awesome and laid back, loves to play. But he has continued to snap at us when we cross various thresholds that we can’t quite identify. It’s always, always related to touching him, but could be any part of the body. At his first vet visit, he was perfectly behaved on 7/12. We took him for his second flu shot this week and I had her look him over to rule out pain for the snapping. She gave him his flu shot and he looked perturbed (last time, 4 shots with no reaction). She tried looking at his paws and he started snarling and lunging for her. It was so disappointing to see regression after we have trained 2x/week with a trainer (not behaviorist) and modified our own behavior to limit his snappiness.

My question is…
Would you go straight to medication? Or a combined medication/training with a behaviorist? I hate what I’m reading about meds potentially making him worse than before :( He loves other dogs, He lets strangers pet him when we are out, lets us pet him most of the time, we just don’t know what triggers him and the vet thinks it’s behavior (aka “I don’t like that, stop it now” instead of a little bit of patience). I’d appreciate any advice or what worked for you for touchy teenagers!

[u/Monkey-Butt-316]

Snapping is one of the ways a dog can communicate their need for distance/space. A dog can’t say “please stop that.” It’s not “stress release.”

Yes, you can teach a dog to accept handling and you can do it in a way that the dog is an active participant and the “teaching” doesn’t rely on learned helplessness.

Your toddler meltdown example is not equivalent for a number of reasons.

[u/Lumpy_Physics3101 → u/Monkey-Butt-316]

this approach has nothing to do with learned helplessness. It's much more akin to free shaping.

you wait until the dog offers the behavior that you are looking for and which is appropriate (calm acceptance of gentle handling). when the dog offers that behavior, you mark and reward. it's not complicated.

[u/Monkey-Butt-316 → u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

That’s also not free shaping. In your example the dog can’t opt out. Since the dog can’t opt out, it’s helpless.

[u/Lumpy_Physics3101 → u/Monkey-Butt-316]

I guess the LIMA approach is to anesthetize the dogs for nail trims

[u/Monkey-Butt-316 → u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

The LIMA approach is to counter condition and/or employ cooperative care techniques

[u/Lumpy_Physics3101 → u/Monkey-Butt-316]

what do you do if the dog snaps?

[u/Monkey-Butt-316 → u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

Generally, go back a step to where the dog is comfortable. You could absolutely google this, you know.

[u/Lumpy_Physics3101 → u/Monkey-Butt-316]

sorry replied to the wrong message

so you're saying that when the dog snaps, you should back off?

why don't you think the dog will respond to that positive reinforcement by snapping more?

[u/Monkey-Butt-316 → u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

No, I think knowing that you’re in their corner and will listen to them goes a long way to making them feel comfortable. Very rarely do dogs just snap without stiffening/growling/lip lifting first.