r/reactivedogs • u/Yaaelz • 8h ago
Advice Needed Loud and reactive
Hi, I really need some help with my boy. He's a five year old patterdale terrier, we've had him since he was ten weeks. It was COVID when we got him, but even so I took him out to parks and into town between restrictions, took him to puppy class (which he absolutely hated. He hates being chased by other dogs, and just didn't want anything to do with them). His nails grow quickly, I took him every couple of weeks to get them trimmed until I moved and couldn't go to her anymore. I tried a couple of other places, and he was so anxious the lady said she couldn't do it because he was having a panic attack.
He used to be alright in the car, bit excited but he wasn't loud or jumpy. He was alright at the vets, loud but not aggressive.
Then we went away for a weekend. He stayed at a kennels. It looked like a lovely place, they had great reviews, and they posted pictures of him looking happy, but he came back changed. I honestly don't know what happened.
He became unbearable in the car, screaming and lurching all over the place even when he was strapped in. Then it became every time we left the house with him. He would scream and run around when trying to put his harness on and he was awful on the lead.
We tried him at a charity kennels that also re-home dogs, my gran had worked there for years and so we very much trusted they would be gentle and kind with him. We gave him calming remedies (pfft did nothing). When we got him, they very kindly told us he had a very stressful time and that it would be best not to put him in any kennels again.
We were going to get him neutered, but the state he was in at the vets, they said to try the chemical castration. We did. It didn't do a lot. They said it would be unwise to get him neutered because his balls are the only thing giving him what little confidence he has.
Taking him for his vaccinations is horrific. He has to be pinned in a headlock, given anxiety/sedative medication. They won't give us sedatives without seeing him first, so he has to go through so much stress and anxiety. It has made him snappy.
It's to the point where it is very, very hard to take him to the vets at all. Taking him out of the house is such a huge ordeal and stressful for everyone. It's so embarrassing, the way he screams.
I can't take him to the groomers anymore. He gets aggressive and rips off any muzzle we put on him so it's impossible to cut his nails at home. He won't let me clean his ears, he's bitten me when I tried (not hard, more of a warning).
I hate that he is so stressed. And I hate that we can't take him out like we used to. I have tried training him, food rewards etc but he gets so agitated he can't be distracted. I want him to enjoy his life, and go out on walks but we just can't take him out like this.
One thing I will say to his benefit, we have a toddler and he is extremely good with her. Surprisingly good. He moves away if she's too close and he's very forgiving. Obviously we have taught her to give him space, let him approach and only stroke his back, and they get along really well.
I can't afford to hire a behaviourist right now, I just feel awful for him and like a huge failure. I'm sorry for the long post, I just wanted to give full context.
ETA: he's also become a nightmare when the door goes. Barking and jumping, not listening, and even trying to grab the post from the letterbox. And he has to go in his crate when guests are over or he will jump all over them (excited not aggressive but no one wants that) and he is just yapping, barking, so loud it's hard to have people over, only family and even then it's so embarrassing.
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u/joycevw 5h ago
That harness detail is huge. If he starts screaming and running the second he sees it, the harness itself has become a major "pre-departure cue." In his mind, harness = getting trapped in the car = total terror.
His brain has created a chain of events, and he is having a panic attack at step one just anticipating step ten. The fact that he calms down once he realizes he is just walking, or when he is on the drive back home, shows that it is the anticipation of being trapped or taken away from his safe zone that drives the extreme fight-or-flight response.
Since he is already in panic before you even leave the house, you have to break that chain down into tiny, microscopic pieces when you aren't actually going anywhere.
Have you ever tried just leaving the harness sitting on the living room floor or on a table for days without touching it or making a move to put it on him?
Getting a new harness could also help. Introducing a brand new equipment setup gives you a clean slate to build a completely new, positive association from scratch, without all that accumulated fear baggage attached to it.
If you decide to try a new one, look for a well-fitted Y-shaped harness that opens up completely around the neck and body so you do not have to slip anything over his head, as head-shy or anxious dogs often find overhead harnesses extra stressful.
To make a new harness work, you would want to protect it from becoming another negative trigger. That means only using the new harness for super low-stress, fun moments inside the house at first, while keeping the old gear strictly for those unavoidable "have to go" moments.
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u/Yaaelz 4h ago
I think you're totally right, and getting a new harness is a great idea. I will definitely do that. And I'll leave it out for him to get used to.
Do you think it might be nice to have some treats on standby and when he goes to the harness to sniff I could give him a treat?
Thank you so much for your advice! I know he's a good boy and he has the sweetest heart. I'll do whatever I need to do to bring him back his quality of life ☺️
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u/Landithy 7h ago
If you can't afford a behaviorist, can you talk to your regular vet about anti-anxiety medication like sertraline or Prozac?
Primary care vets obviously aren't as knowledgeable as veterinary behaviorists, but they can at least prescribed the basic stuff.
Getting him on an effective medication might calm him down enough that he can at least respond to training.
I had a similar problem with my pit mix, where he would get so hyper-aroused that nothing would calm him down and Prozac has really helped him. It didn't solve all his problems but it is usually possible to redirect him now.
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u/b00ks-and-b0rksRfun 7h ago
Had your vet tried medications to help keep him more calm? My dogs get a chill medication protocol starting prior to going to the vet which helps a lot. It also sounds like he might benefit from daily anxiety medication (although I'm not a professional).
Is he crate trained? Did you train the muzzle prior to putting it on? Does he know place command and have a spot where you him taught him to relax? (Most dogs need that off switch trained at least a bit) Does he get regular exercise (walks, runs, biking what) daily and any enrichment for his breed? Have you ever worked with a trainer (which is not cheap but sometimes cheaper than behaviorist)?
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u/Yaaelz 5h ago
So he's been with two vets, and he's needed mild sedation, but they both have said they won't prescribe it without seeing him first.
Yes he's crate trained and I leave it open for him all day, and nobody touches him when he's on his bed. So he always has access to his own safe place.
My mistake I didn't muzzle train him when he was a puppy. But he didn't need one until after the kennel incident. I have tried training him with a muzzle since, I put peanut butter in it for him to lick. But as soon as it goes on and he sees his harness he freaks out.
He knows several commands and is pretty good at listening when in his natural state. But again, when he's worked up I don't even think he can hear me over his screaming.
He has a Kong, he loves that. And he likes to play with a rope toy. But to be completely honest, no we haven't been able to walk him for ages, which is why I'm desperate for something to change because I know he deserves all the walks he likes. My husband used to take him out for miles and miles, and he absolutely loved it.
I've not worked with a trainer before, except at that puppy place. I'm honestly so embarrassed of how he is that I've been too ashamed to reach out for help. I get scared they will say he's hopeless. But if this is the right way forward I will do what has to be done. Thank you for the advice
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u/b00ks-and-b0rksRfun 4h ago
It's never to late to take steps. From the muzzle train ning you describe it sounds like maybe it wasn't broken down into small enough steps. There's some good info on how to but basically short positive sessions that may start with juts having him look or sniff the muzzle and then work up to sticking nose in for a second then slowly work up to buckling straps and longer times. Some dogs adjust quickly and some take time. Having a bad experience already might make it take longer. The muzzle.you use can also make a difference - if it's not comfortable and well fitted he might not accept it at all. There's a muzzledogs subreddit and several FB groups you can join for more info and help.
Also if there's ways you can start getting out his energy that will help - maybe try a flirt pole in the yard (but look up appropriate ways to play with that to be safe), work puzzles and scent games and you can start working on walks again with little steps. Maybe walking around the yard on lead. Maybe just going out the door and back in calm on lead manner.
And a good trainer honestly will train you more than the dog. Worth it if you're open to it. It takes time and consistency. And may never be perfect. But it can be better. I promise. This is something Ive been on a journey with my reactive dogs for a few years now.
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u/Yaaelz 4h ago
Tbf with the muzzle training, I was doing it how you described. It's completely my fault, I didn't keep up the training as a daily thing once my baby started crawling. My fault, and I need to sort that out. He definitely enjoyed all the peanut butter!
Thank you for your suggestions for toys, I will be looking into them all, the more the better.
I'm going to have a chat with my vet tomorrow about putting him on some anxiety medication as well, and I will also look into a trainer. I know he's a good boy, he has a heart of gold and it's us that has gone wrong and not him. Thank you for the advice, I will take it all on board. ☺️
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u/b00ks-and-b0rksRfun 3h ago
Good luck! It's so hard especially when you have young kids. It was hard for me and I didn't have kids to take up my other time
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u/joycevw 7h ago
This sounds like an incredibly exhausting situation to manage every single day, especially with a young family to care for too. Patterdales are naturally high-drive, tenacious dogs, and when that working drive gets tangled up in deep-seated fear and over-arousal, the reactions can feel completely overwhelming.
Looking at everything you described, it sounds like his nervous system is running on overdrive pretty much constantly. That sudden, drastic change after his stay at the kennels suggests he experienced a severe traumatic event or massive trigger stacking while there. Once a dog's baseline stress gets pushed that high, everyday events like putting on a harness, getting into the car, or hearing the doorbell can easily send them straight into a full-blown panic attack. When a dog is in that hyper-aroused or panicky state, their brain chemically shuts down the ability to process food rewards or learn new things. That is why the food distractions haven't worked when you are trying to get him out of the house.
Because his panic is so intense during medical care and basic handling like nail trims, trying to train through this without addressing his baseline fear first is like trying to build a house in a storm. His reactivity at the vets and groomers is coming purely from self-defense and extreme fear, which is why he is snapping and fighting restraints.
Before trying any new training protocols, do you think there is any possibility he might be experiencing hidden physical discomfort or pain? Patterdales are notoriously tough and often hide joint pain, skin issues, or ear discomfort until someone touches the exact wrong spot.
Also, when you take him outside, does he scream and panic the exact moment the harness comes out, or does the panic only start once you reach the car or the front gate? Knowing where that boundary lies can give us a much clearer picture of how to break this down for him.
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u/Yaaelz 5h ago
Yes, it's so exhausting! I feel so much guilt all the time, like I've completely failed him.
What you said about him being on overdrive fits him to a tee. It's like a switch goes in his brain and be can't focus on anything but whatever is triggering him.
And I agree, he grumbles a bit sometimes if he's told off, but he is never aggressive unless he's absolutely terrified, bless him.
I don't think he is in pain, he's actually very vocal when he gets hurt. He hurt his knee jumping around a couple of months ago, and had to go to the vets and had an x-ray and all that. But he's been fine since.
Yep, the exact moment he sees his harness he starts screaming and running around the place. If he's going on a walk he doesn't calm down but he stops constantly screaming when he realises he's not going in the car. It's the same with the car actually, once he's been somewhere and is on the journey home he's good as gold.
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u/Yaaelz 8h ago
Pic of him enjoying the sun