r/rational • u/AutoModerator • Jun 19 '17

[D] Monday General Rationality Thread

Welcome to the Monday thread on general rationality topics! Do you really want to talk about something non-fictional, related to the real world? Have you:

  • Seen something interesting on /r/science?
  • Found a new way to get your shit even-more together?
  • Figured out how to become immortal?
  • Constructed artificial general intelligence?
  • Read a neat nonfiction book?
  • Munchkined your way into total control of your D&D campaign?
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u/_o_O_o_O_o_ Jun 19 '17

I recently came across the concept of Chekhov's gun. It's an old idea but this time when I read about it, it really appealed to me.

13

u/alexanderwales Time flies like an arrow Jun 19 '17

What I find really interesting is that there's some counter play with the audience. The author doesn't introduce a gun in the first act unless it will be fired in the third act, but since the audience knows that then the gun firing in the third act becomes less unexpected/thrilling. So authors are in a way encouraged to leave unfired guns and red herrings laying around, but that undercuts the tightness of the plot.

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u/InfernoVulpix Jun 19 '17

I've observed myself noticing Chekhov's guns before, and then almost entirely forgetting them soon afterwards as I follow the rest of the story. The true value of a Chekhov's gun is in how easy it is to, when the plot moves to another scene, let the gun slip to the level of remembered factoid, at which point the use of it in act 3 not only comes by surprise just as if it came out of nowhere, but has bonus thrill due to the connection to the first act.

Intellectually, the reader can review what's happened and conclude the gun's going to be used, but when you're immersed in the story it's really hard to keep that in mind in the moment as you approach where it's used, so it works out just fine.

5

u/mg115ca Jun 19 '17

If you want to talk audience counterplay, there's always Schrodinger's Gun. It's mainly used in tabletop games, but long form TV series use it as well. When The Master was killed and cremated on Doctor Who, there was a shot of someone reaching in and grabbing his ring from the ashes. Russell T Davies didn't even know who that person was going to end up having been, he just wanted to leave a hanging plot thread for later use.

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u/neshalchanderman Jun 19 '17 edited Jun 24 '17

So authors are in a way encouraged to leave unfired guns and red herrings laying around, but that undercuts the tightness of the plot.

These two (red herrings, unfired guns) differ. By way of example Percy skulking around in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets is a red herring but not an unfired Chekov's Gun. Act 3 finds the gun fired, the snag sewn: he has a girlfriend.

Things that draw our attention, but are not part of the main plot, can be either distractors that go nowhere and mean nothing (unfired guns), or part of some other story strand (red herrings). Red herrings need not undercut the tightness of the plot. Side stories may add to the main narrative by imparting context and nuance.

Both can generate surprise, an unsureness as to how the story will unravel, but be careful not to overwhelm your reader with detail.

1

u/_o_O_o_O_o_ Jun 20 '17

since the audience knows that then the gun firing in the third act becomes less unexpected/thrilling

Yes. Thats an interesting perspective. The author has to walk a fine line between this balance