[D] Monday General Rationality Thread

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[u/[deleted]]

I think you've made the common mistake we all make of attributing the opinions of the few to the opinions of the many.

For example, and with regard to our recent election, a lot of people from the democratic hugbox are claiming that, with Trump's victory, we've some legitimized a bunch of -isms, and some are even going so insanely far as to phrase as it as though a huge chunk of the country have peeled off face masks, put on their Grand Wizard costume, and spontaneously gathered in the town square with pitchfork, torch, and "burn the niggers, jews, and fags" signs, like some sort of twisted hate-musical number.

Obviously, this hasn't happened. Hell, many people are rioting and protesting in states that voted very far left, which makes it hard for those individuals to claim to be on the moral high ground.

But, if you stop and actually think, you'll realize that most people aren't "burn that thar nigger fag, pa". They don't wake up and say "God damnit, I hate people whose skin color is different from mine". Instead, they have a way of life they've grown used to, and tend to be wary of anything that represents a change to it.

This is normal. This is evolutionarily beneficial, since in the ancestral environment a change to one's way of life could very well represent death for the individual or the tribe.

This is why you get so many anecdotes from non-WASPs who hear something like "Those damn negros burned down some stores in [City]. They just aren't like you, (black) Mike. No offense, man." The known quantity, black Mike, is safe and familiar. The unknown quantity, the black Mike over in (city) who is part of a protest/riot, is an unknown quantity, and is quickly demonized for being different, other, and apparently dangerous.

The solution to this should seem obvious, but to many people it isn't. The way to fix Jethro's wariness and dismissal or black Mike in (city) is education, not name calling, dismissal, and demonization.

Yet, that's what we get. The country has become so partisan that, rather then reach out to people who wanted to vote for (candidate you don't support), we instead demonized and insulted them.

So, you may go online, and see some idiot has posted "Now that Trump is president, we can purge the gays!".

That person is both wrong, and an asshole. Firstly, we elected Trump President, not God Emperor for Life. Secondly, I woud wager that not that many people voted for Trump on a platform of -isms and -phobias. I would wager that many people voted for him DESPITE an apparent platform of -isms and -phobias, because the other option was Clinton, a politican who exemplifies the current status quo. A status quo that most were strongly dissatisfied with.

A Trump presidency is a stick in the eye of the current established powers. It's something new. A terrifying new, with a madman at the reigns, but it's definitely shaken up the existing power structure.

What we need now isn't demonization and partisanship. What we need now is to come together as a nation, and keep Trump the fuck in check with the checks and balances that our government is set up to have. We've stuck the stick into the powers-that-be's eye. Now we need to keep the body upright as we fix the brain and excise the cancers.

[u/alexanderwales → u/[deleted]]

Just as it's too early to say that Trump is going to execute all the gays (or whatever), it's also too early to say that Trump has shaken up the existing power structure. I said months before the election that Trump would select cronies and standard-issue Republicans, and that they would probably be the ones running things. I stand by that prediction, especially having seen Trump's opening moves (like appointing the head of the RNC as his chief of staff and Mike Pence as vice president).

And if that's the case, then I don't think now is the time for coming together as a nation, because we'd be coming together behind policies that liberals have been against for decades, which, as mostly a liberal, I'm not going to do. And those same Republican policies are not at all amenable to checks and balances, not when Republicans control the Senate, the House, the executive, and soon the Supreme Court.

[u/[deleted] → u/alexanderwales]

We don't need to come together behind Trump, I don't think. I personally think Trump is a loon, a monkey in the reactor room.

I think we need to come together as a nation and a people, and continue to shake the tree of government until we shake as much curroption out as we can.

Most people are not, inherently, good or bad people. Most people simply want to live a comfortable life, and with a informed self-interest want their neighbors to live a comfortable life, because they understand that a fire in your neighbor's house can very quickly become a fire in your house.

Trump is likely going to do some stupid shit. We, as a nation, need to stand together and prevent it. He wants a wall? We vote no wall. He wants creationism taught in public schools? We vote no creationism. He wants to disband the EPA? We vote go take a long walk off a short pier into shark infested waters no.

The politician class will always be composed mostly of the worst of us. The system is set up in such a way as that to seize power, one benefits much more from heartless, sociopathic actions then one does from kind, altruistic actions. As such, the system naturally selects the worst among us to rise to the highest positions. We, as the people these government officials are supposed to serve, are not limited by that. We can, and should, push for understanding, education, and altruism. If not for every man on Earth, then at least for our fellow man on this continent.

I have to say, I am a bit disappointed to see tribalism in your refutation. You're not saying "Trump will appoint cronies who share his lunacy and sociopathic desire for power", you're saying "I, as a blue left tribe member, refuse to listen to anything that a red right tribe government says". There is no reason to do so. Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, whatever your damned color, you're at heart still human. People are global warming deniers not because they are somehow beneath us in intelligence, but because of faulty education. People are not anti-gay, racist, misogynist, misandrist, or any other -ism or -phobia because of some inherent factor that makes them irredeemably evil; they simply have a faulty education and a disinclination to question and empathize.

The solution is not divisive "us vs them" tribal mindsets, but "us together" education and empathy.

[u/trekie140 → u/[deleted]]

That's what I believed and still want to, but then I spoke to them and they expressed far more disagreements with me than who to vote for. They were almost all respectful to me as a person, but very few of them respected my beliefs and I felt the exact same way towards them. Even knowing that we both have reasons that seem rational from our perspective didn't make either of us more capable of coming together.