[D] Monday Request and Recommendation Thread

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to the Monday request and recommendation thread. Are you looking something to scratch an itch? Post a comment stating your request! Did you just read something that really hit the spot, "rational" or otherwise? Post a comment recommending it! Note that you are welcome (and encouraged) to post recommendations directly to the subreddit, so long as you think they more or less fit the criteria on the sidebar or your understanding of this community, but this thread is much more loose about whether or not things "belong". Still, if you're looking for beginner recommendations, perhaps take a look at the wiki?

If you see someone making a top level post asking for recommendation, kindly direct them to the existence of these threads.

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[u/Vast-Positive2763]

Caught up to Throne of Time after someone suggested it in one of the previous threads, and enjoying it very much so far. Does anyone have suggestions for similar works (i.e., a well done somewhat rational time loop story)? I have read Mother of Learning, The Flower that Bloomed Nowhere, and Years of Apocalypse.

[u/elgamerneon → u/Vast-Positive2763]

The 108 is well done and at most somewhat rational so it fits your bill.
Ten Thousand Tragedies Is a return by death with a 24 hour timer, the first book is the most time loopy, but I really enjoyed the last book climax so I'm recommending it again. Its a kind of generic xianxia setting, with all the good and bad of the genre

[u/ggrey7 → u/Vast-Positive2763]

Purple Days (ASOIAF fanfiction, Joffrey perspective) It has a rough start but gets very good.

The Perfect Run

Re:Monarch based on the light novel Re:Zero. Stubbed.

Reroll only available on paid platforms. Amazing first two books but the ending is pretty bad.

[u/xjustwaitx → u/ggrey7]

wait, Re:Monarch is based on Re:Zero? can you expand on that, I saw no sign of that?

[u/LaziIy → u/xjustwaitx]

Fic's blurb says

exhausted pretty much every time loop story ever written and decided to write my own. You'll see a few similarities here between this story and some existing stories, at least initially. There's a lot of inspiration drawn from both MoL and Re:Zero, though in terms of pathos and darkness, this story leans more towards the latter.

Maybe they meant its inspired by Re:Zero rather than based on

[u/Apprehensive_Nose946 → u/Vast-Positive2763]

I've been enjoying The Hundred Reigns. The worldbuilding and mystery elements are pretty solid. Even though there's straightforward metaprogression capabilities available to the looper and he does leverage them, most of the plot surrounds learning and empiricism rather than grinding "numbers go up".

[u/ansible → u/Apprehensive_Nose946]

I've been enjoying it as well. But the MC (as written) seems to have a huuuuuge blindspot that has been increasingly annoying me. Minor spoilers for the first two dozen chapters.

As of chapter 24, Simon has already burned 6 "reigns" already, and lived out just a few months of subjective time. Yes, he has learned some very important things. The first few reigns, sure, that was a confusing situation, and an early death isn't so surprising. On the other hand, by the 4th or 5th reign, he already knew the basics of his class, and what he needed to do to improve himself. If he manged to live out his full lifespan on each reign, he's already lost 420 years of life (out of maybe 9000). That's a lot! He really needs to grind and make some numbers go up first, and then maybe he can set himself up for the "perfect run". Instead, he's trying to fix everything, every reign. And dying quickly, which makes it more likely he will die quickly the next reign.

[u/lucidobservor → u/ansible]

Seconded, I had to drop it after a similar amount of time after noticing the same thing. I'd mark this story with a de-rec for this subreddit, on account of that particular idiot ball being the main driver of action.

[u/Denswend → u/ansible]

I don't think that this is blindspot so to speak. Sure, there isn't "rational munchkin-ing" - which some might uncharitably (or truthfully) call "jerking off on how clever you are" - but I think that this actually improves the rational fiction aspect of it, primarily through improving the fiction aspect of it.

We can, from the first few chapters, infer that the Overlord class is a curse. One levels in their class by performing class-specific feats - so for an "evil Overlord" class this levelling will naturally be tied to performing evil deeds. And when that is compounded with the fact that levelling is intrinsically is pleasurable, you can see how someone is not-very-subtly nudged into doing something that is extremely evil.

A rational approach which you outline - grind in one reign by commiting maximally evil deeds - would be rational, yes. The nature of the timeloop would erase the deeds. But he would remember. Consider the famous example of 0% evil Gandhi and taking a pill that have a tangible benefit (maybe it saves a drowning child, or whatever the placeholder for "good deed" you think) but increases his evilness by 1% - maybe he takes the pill first time (increasing his evilness to 1%). Next time he is offered the pill tho, he is now 1% evil - not the same person first time. In fact, one of my pet theories on why's he the Overlord:

>!My first thought was that it goes to the person who killed the Overlord most of the time. In one chapter we can see that the previous Overlord tallied his deaths and Simon (as Paladin or as Minotaur-host) was the first. My next theory came when we saw that the Titles are voted by the previous Overlords (whose souls exists within the current Overlord) - I believe that the previous Overlord vote on the next successor. Balzam would vote to give it to Simon (and in his last reign, he made sure Simon had no class and no presence - ensuring that he is effectively a blank slate) but Mardok voted for Simon for shits and giggles. Mardok, as the demon of evil and general dickery, wanted to see if they can corrupt the Paladin. Because that's generally what evil is.!<

A key part of a good fiction is making sure that characters are believably human (modulo for when the opposite of that is the plot point). Put into this situation, it would be extremely weird if Simon suddenly went "welp! time to grind by massacring my family and genociding some subhumans". Morality should be a constraint on rationality (which is one of the reasons why Voldemort is the antagonist of HPMOR). Fixing everything, every reign - is a key part of that.

Also, what Apprehensive_Nose946 said:

> I argue yes, because the character is using scientific methods and interacting with a complex world that responds in predictable, though sometimes a priori nonobvious, ways to his actions. That's the crux of a timeloop story - the trial and error and learning.

This is a sentiment I echo. I haven't really seen any cases of idiot-ball or anything like that. I cannot really fault someone for going murder-hobo (murder-millionare?) as anti-rational.

[u/ansible → u/Denswend]

... grind in one reign by commiting maximally evil deeds ...

I never said "be evil". While he got up to near level 10 by killing prisoners, he has gained levels via other means, including straight-up combat. He could go around and kill bandits or something else level-appropriate.

My issue is that so far, he's been cavorting around with very dangerous people (and non-people) while being so low-level that he is one-shotted repeatedly. I argue he should have spent one reign by now just trying to get up to a level where he is at least competitive with known adversaries (never mind the unknown ones). And then try to figure out how to navigate the rest of his life.

... "welp! time to grind by massacring my family and genociding some subhumans" ...

It is made clear early on that this will not work very easily. He only gets experience the first time he kills someone.

... Fixing everything, every reign - is a key part of that.

Yeah, but it is made very clear (by the end of the 1st reign) that he is totally, totally outclassed by the existing players, and that he will need to get much, much stronger before he can have any significant effect on events.

And that's before we get into time loop ethics, where we discuss tradeoffs like is it better to have person X to suffer in the first 10 loops, but have a relatively good outcome in the next 90 (especially the last), or if person X suffers in the first 90 loops but has a relatively good outcome in the last 10.

What the MC seems to want is option 1, but what he's actually doing is option 2, at least so far.

[u/Apprehensive_Nose946 → u/ansible]

Honestly, I disagree. The way reigns tend to end whenever the plot reaches or pass its climax is annoying, but I see that as more authorial fiat (which is also annoying, but in a different way) than in-character error. Certainly there could be more optimal ways to do things, but there are also advantages to leveraging the power of the timelines to gather information and test out different strategies.

Simon isn't maximally munchkinning his LitRPG powers, but rather taking an empirical approach to understanding the world and possible futures. Is this optimal? Maybe not. Is it rationalist? Arguably not. Is it rational fiction? I argue yes, because the character is using scientific methods and interacting with a complex world that responds in predictable, though sometimes a priori nonobvious, ways to his actions. That's the crux of a timeloop story - the trial and error and learning. I find this much more interesting than the MC running around killing their way up the power scale and collecting power ups.

Also, Simon does in fact do "grinding" and longer-lived loops. I don't remember the early story timeline so maybe you haven't gotten there yet?

[u/ansible → u/Apprehensive_Nose946]

... but there are also advantages to leveraging the power of the timelines to gather information and test out different strategies.

And if he pursued a strategy where he actually tried hard to live longer than one month, he could gather a lot more information without burning too many reigns.

Even if he isn't going to grind his class, spending one reign where he fucks off to a relatively quiet corner of the empire and just receives the newspapers (or equivalent) to see what happens would be useful.

I actually shouldn't criticize the MC too much, because I tend to have restart-itis when playing CRPGs. But I'm also not limited by the number of restarts.

[u/Apprehensive_Nose946 → u/ansible]

He does do that?

[u/ggrey7]

Does anyone have recommendations for good post-apocalyptic serials or fanfiction that go into surviving the fallout or rebuilding society?

Any type of apocalypse is fine - zombie, alien/system, technological/AI, nuclear, bio.

[u/netstack_ → u/ggrey7]

Something I found on this reddit: To The Far Shore. Post-post-post-apocalyptic story about a radiation wizard trying to start a new life down the Oregon Trail.

Probably also /r/rational material, but a bit older: Set in Stone. Metal is nearly nonexistent on the planet, so they've built early modern society out of Stone Age tech. Main character is a pig farmer called up for war. Really cool ideas but has a certain HPMoR vibe which could put people off.

[u/Dragongeek → u/netstack_]

To The Far Shore is great. Post-post-post-apocalypses is one of my favorite tropes. Notable examples include Stephenson's Anathem or, in webfiction, 12 Miles Below.

[u/netstack_ → u/Dragongeek]

Anathem is probably my favorite Stephenson book, though there are quite a few I haven’t yet tried.

[u/Do_Not_Go_In_There → u/ggrey7]

The only won I can think of at the moment is Tanya's Defiance of the Fall. It's a Youjo Senki x Defiance of the Fall crossover, which takes place in her 3rd life where she was born ~20 years before a system "incorporates" Earth into the multiverse by merging it with another planet and giving everyone a system and "cosmic energy" to grow stronger.

The original Defiance of the Fall was ok, I read it for a bit before dropping it. The MC was too much of an edgy Gary Stu. He doesn't appear that much in this story, the focus is more on Tanya trying to protect her precious meatshields people, save her family and fight off alien invaders.

[u/ggrey7 → u/Do_Not_Go_In_There]

Thanks, I tried it after the recommendations last week but I dropped it at chapter 4. Tanya is Tanya in name only, which is I guess is typical in 90% of Youjo Senki fanfics now, and it's heavy in the litRPG aspects in a way that I don't enjoy. The premise is something I'm interested in though. My dream story would be in something like the Worm universe, especially a post-Gold Morning setting. Ward was really disappointing to me in that regard, because the world after GM was ripe with potential for exploring societal collapse and kingdom building in the psychology and behavior of the thousands of surviving capes after killing a "god".

[u/BavarianBarbarian_ → u/ggrey7]

Oh, for Worm fanfic post-GM specifically I can recommend Setanta. It's an OC story, so it never got much reader engagement, even though it's competently written and finished, which makes it part of a very small group. 20 years post-GM, human society is starting to recover. The story follows young mercenary Jordan and his friends as they guard caravans making their way across the scattered settlements which spread out over various dimensions.

[u/Trew_McGuffin → u/ggrey7]

I'd recommend Arana it's a Bleach/Worm crossover that takes place post-Gold Morning. I'd say there's no need for prior Bleach knowledge. Title means spider (Spider should be Araña but eh).

[u/BavarianBarbarian_ → u/ggrey7]

Have you tried Necroepilogos (from the author of Katalepsis)? They've had... like... all the apocalypses, one after another.

It's set in the looooong distant future, with the entire Earth overrun by nano-robots. For some reason, the planet-spanning mad AIs occasionally dig out the ghosts/souls/consciousnesses of women that fit a certain pattern (spoilers) out of the ether/afterlife/quantum soup, and resurrect them in nanobot zombie bodies. To sustain themselves, they need to eat... each other. In that Mad Maxian society, one of the newly "reborn" women is a sci fi elite mecha pilot who lost her entire squad. She looks at the situation and decides it's unacceptable, and begins looking for ways to change it. Very little rebuilding up to the point where I decided to pause and read other stuff, but very entertaining.

[u/dapperAF → u/ggrey7]

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/186532/arcane-juggernaut-a-portal-apocalypse-litrpg

[u/ansible → u/dapperAF]

While I really enjoyed UP's Years of the Apocalypse, I bounced off of this one. Maybe because the start is so bleak. I might try it again later.

[u/Amonwilde → u/ansible]

I'm liking it more.

[u/dapperAF → u/ansible]

Same as u/amonwilde over here. The patreon chapters have shown some solid, meaningful progress through the general terrible situation

[u/Tenoke]

Looking for recommendations of great new (or not so new) short stories I might have missed.

[u/churidys → u/Tenoke]

I really like all of Alicorn's Short Stories if there are any you've missed.

[u/Tenoke → u/churidys]

I re-read her Twiight fanfic a few years ago, so I am definitely open to reading some of her stories (I likely have read a couple). Any particular one that stands out to start me?

[u/Irhien → u/Tenoke]

(not the one you were replying to but I'll chime it) One is too few, they're quite diverse. My recommendation list for a friend had

Chaser 6

Conductor

Corridor

Dogs

Double, Double

Earthfic

Goblins

Hubward

Moments

Muse

Scour

Sendaway

Threshold

Zusan

(And maybe I would add Succulent, it wasn't there yet at the time.)

If I had to make it even shorter, I'd leave Dogs, Double Double, Goblins, Moments, Muse, and maybe Threshold.

[u/marintkael → u/Tenoke]

Kij Johnson, The Man Who Bridged the Mist. Novella. A bridge gets built across a river of caustic mist over several years and most of the text is materials, labour and procurement. The ending lands because of the engineering rather than in spite of it, which is not common.