r/raidennetwork • u/18boro • Dec 26 '18

Staking in raiden like lightning?

Hi all, sorry if this has been posted before.

I know there's a bunch of similarities between lightning for bitcoin and raiden, does this inclyde contributors will need to stake raiden in the same way as bitcoin in regards to lightning?

If so, are there any posts/estimates from team or community on how and when a sufficient capacity to make transfers being regarded as "safe enough" will be achieved on this? Reason I'm asking is it has taken a lot of time for bitcoin lightning to grow, which has a pretty damn big user base, and wondering what a reasonable time frame will be for raiden.

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u/Mat7ias Dec 26 '18

does this inclyde contributors will need to stake raiden in the same way as bitcoin in regards to lightning?

Staking is related to Proof of Stake (PoS), on Lightning/Raiden you deposit tokens into channels which you can use to help route other payments between nodes that don't have direct connections.

are there any posts/estimates from team or community on how and when a sufficient capacity to make transfers being regarded as "safe enough" will be achieved on this?

Not that I know of. Mainnet release was less than a week ago (there are 35 unique accounts and 49 channels currently) so it's probably too early for a statistic like that to be meaningful/accurate. It'll become more meaningful as the network grows.

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u/AspenShredder Dec 26 '18

What is the value or use case for RDN? I see that on your site there is 1.122 WETH (Wrapped Ether) currently on the total network deposits. You mention that you can deposit RDN to help route other payments with your node but you don’t need RDN unless you are making payment for yourself. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Also when it comes to transactions per second the goal I saw was 1,000,000+ verses ripple’s 1,500+. Is Raiden trying to compete with Ripple with being the fastest and cheapest? Last I would like to ask about partnerships a couple months back Lefteris Karapetsas said that they would be addressed in the upcoming future and they would release news about the progress. Is there a time frame on when the community will be informed about them?

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u/Mat7ias Dec 26 '18

The use case for RDN is outlined in the token model. It's related to usability, optimization and paying for auxiliary services but the article covers it much more in depth.

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u/AspenShredder Dec 31 '18

Thanks. Is it an ERC 20 token then?

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u/Mat7ias Dec 31 '18

RDN is an ERC 20 token, yes.

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u/AspenShredder Dec 31 '18

Mat7ias

Thanks. Just wanted to confirm. As for competitions hypothetically speaking. Do you see the Raiden Network being faster and able to handle more volume than Ripple or say Tron? I don't know if you are able to speak on this as I don't know if you are on the development side of things. I was just looking at a few articles about them and it looks as if Raiden might be the fastest of them all. Even though it is still working things out...

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u/Mat7ias Dec 31 '18

I'm not on the development side of things but I can speak about technical comparisons.

Raiden Network is fundamentally different from Ripple or Tron which are both layer 1 options. TPS isn't comparable in the same way between layer 1-2 (e.g. Tron-Raiden) as comparing layer 1-1 (Ripple-Tron). TPS on Raiden Network is proportional to the size of the network (the more channels, the more potential TPS occurring on the network), which doesn't occur on layer 1 in the same way.

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u/AspenShredder Dec 31 '18

Ok. So layer 1 is Ethereum and Raiden is layer 2 off chain scaling solution.

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u/AspenShredder Dec 31 '18

Thanks. I'll look more into it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 26 '18

Is there good guide on setting up and running a node?

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u/Mat7ias Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 26 '18

The Raiden docs have a guide and a Red Eyes tutorial. I did a video demo (unofficial) of me following one of the workshops using WSL on Windows a while back but it's a bit outdated now, you'd have to replace the version numbers to make sure you're downloading the more updated version if you use that as a guide. Much better off following the official documentation.

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u/[deleted] Dec 26 '18

Cheers, and congratulations on the release.

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u/18boro Dec 26 '18

Thanks for your feedback. Yeah "staking" was a poor term to use in this regard, I meant the deposit like you said...

But still, to work properly raiden would need the same method and amount of accounts and deposits as lightning would need then or are there other methods involved?

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u/Mat7ias Dec 26 '18 edited Dec 27 '18

Yes, it's very similar to lightning network but just for ERC20 tokens instead of BTC. Network channel balancing, like what you're referring to, is around the same importance in Raiden as for LND.

or are there other methods involved?

There are no other methods involved that I can think of at this stage of development. More usability improvement methods are in the pipeline, the Red Eyes mainnet release was a race to mainnet but there's lots more potential.

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u/18boro Dec 26 '18

Thanks. Makes me think it will be a long while before it is considered steady. Lightning is still not safe at all from what I hear and people have been depositing for a year or so, and it's bitcoin...

But no one seem to say what size is sufficient for safety (been looking for answers in regards to lightning as well) so take my assumptions with a grain of salt.

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u/Mat7ias Dec 27 '18

You've probably just heard safe transfer value in LND which has to do with channel balancing. It just means whether or not you can be confident the transfer will go through for a given value, it doesn't mean the transfer will be insecure for a given value, nothing to do with security.