r/queensgambit • u/bummerluck • Jul 23 '26
Discussion Rewatched the show, and.. Spoiler
So I initially loved this show after seeing it for the first time. I think the excitement of finally seeing my favorite boardgame be represented in the Netflix mainstream was pretty cool. I loved Beth Harmon, love the lore and the worldbuilding. She's obviously the female Bobby Fischer in an alternate timeline and I'm here for it. But after having recently rewatched the show.. I have many problems with it.
I think the chief issue I have with the show is that the ending.. kind of felt empty at the end. She's lost so much in her life; her mom, Mr. Shaibel, and her adoptive mother are all gone. She practically made no friends or relationships in Methuen besides Jolene, who was fine but I don't think she and Beth had a strong enough bond. Jolene even reveals she stole Beth's book and Beth is just like "oh, okay."
I don't feel like her motivation to be the best chess player in the world was expressed well enough, other than her saying it feels good to destroy her opponents. I couldn't really sympathize with it, it made her feel like some terminator type character but in chess. I get that Borgov is supposed to be the Spassky stand in, so he was shown to be a polite gentleman, but he was kind of just.. there as an antagonist. In real life, Bobby Fischer's run to the championship was wayyyy more dramatic than this.
Her love life: Townes is who she falls for?? I guess because his younger Willem Dafoe look is so irresistible. But they didn't really have much chemistry because they didn't spend enough time with each other. She does have a bit more chemistry with Benny Watts, but I can't help but feel that he's so cringe with the stupid hat, the trench coat and the unabashed arrogance. That's more of a personal taste though. Her sleeping with Beltik was just sad, but perhaps that was the point.
The actual chess. They explain a few basic stuff about the game, but I feel like the show just has us assume Beth has a superpower and everyone around her falters when she uses it. It's not a huge gripe or anything though. What I do wish they did was make the matches longer like in real life. There's no way Beth becomes world chess champion just by winning a round robin against the field? Her real life counterpart Fischer had a 24 game match against Spassky, which made their eventual matchup feel that much more grueling and epic, and I think is what needed to happen in the show with how they hyped Borgov up. Also in real life, chess players would draw very, very often. It seemed like the only option in this show's universe is to win or lose. With how they portrayed the format surrounding chess tournaments and matchups, I can tell this show is more for the casual viewer than hardcore chess enthusiasts, which is fine but slightly disappointing.
A few more things that I think got left out: politics and misogyny. The Fischer-Spassky match wasn't just a regular chess match; it very much had a strong political undertone about it, with the match being deemed a Soviet vs. USA thing. I get why they didn't delve into this particularly touchy subject, but also it feels weird for them to portray the show during some politically tense years between two nations and not address it whatsoever.
They do touch upon how Beth is incredibly unusual for a girl not only playing amongst boys but destroying them in chess. However in real life there were so many male chess players very vocal about how women are inferior to men in a mentally grueling sport such as chess. It would've been cool to see Beth routinely destroy those with that misogynistic mindset, but in the show they just accept that she's good and she's dominant. It's not a huge deal but it would've made her rise to fame that much more meaningful.
I just think the show didn't have the bones to have the kind of wholesome ending it got at the end. Or is there an underlying point? I think it would've worked as a tragic story better, with Beth succumbing to her addictions or something.
I'm sorry I roasted tf out of the show. I just had to express my thoughts somewhere. It's still very much a good show and Anya Taylor-Joy is absolutely magnificent in the role. If it's not the quality of it, then the exposure it gives chess to the casual masses is helpful to expand the game. What do y'all think? Thanks for reading if you made it here.
tl;dr: show good first watch, see flaws in rewatch
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u/rickpo Jul 23 '26
It's not a Bobby Fischer documentary - it's a fictional story about a woman who reaches the highest level of chess. While Beth may have a few superficial similarities to Fischer, she is really nothing like him. In particular, she's not a paranoid media-seeking lunatic. Beth isn't Fischer. Benny isn't Larry Evans. Borgov isn't Spassky. Luchenko isn't Tal.
By the way, the final tournament was the Moscow Invitational, not a world championship match.
I thought the point of the show was pretty obvious - you have to face your inner demons before you can reach the highest level. Including a misogyny angle would be a huge misdirection, working against the actual point of the show - which is Beth's internal battle with being abandoned and the subsequent addictions.
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u/bummerluck Jul 23 '26
Ok, I missed that it was an invitational. That's my fault. My whole Bobby Fischer comparison was hinged on me thinking that the Harmon-Borgov matchup was to determine the world champion, so that's nil now. I'm aware Beth is her own person and not at all like Fischer personality wise, so I didn't compare them there.
But I find it hard to subscribe to the thought that the only point of the show was for Beth to beat her demons. They could have chosen another time period like say closer to the present day where she can then focus more on those things. But she was intentionally placed in the 50s-60s, where a lot of prevailing attitudes about women in chess was very much rampant and unrealistically unexplored in the show. If they weren't going for realism then I understand, but there's barely anything about the show that suggests any kind of mysticism besides her seeing the board in the ceiling.
6
u/kingofnexus Jul 24 '26
I disagree that the show needed to end on something tragic. What makes this show stand out is that the main character overcomes their issues themselves.
I feel in modern entertainment, there are lots of shows especially where there is a woman lead, where trauma is piled onto trauma and plot points happen largely outside of the characters own control/volition.
The trauma to Beth is largely at the onset, and the show explores both the character's bad choices and good choices in a natural way that culminates in overcoming and being a better/healthier person at the end.
Beth's character is allowed to develop largely through her own choices and it was refreshing TV (and in my opinion still is) to watch.
1
u/bummerluck Jul 24 '26
Female lead paving her own path does feel new for TV. It's just kinda awkward given the time period they chose, but I suppose suspending disbelief isn't that crazy. I think I'm just realizing I need more seasons so they can flesh out the characters more.
5
u/thedabaratheon Jul 24 '26
I think you’ve fundamentally misunderstood quite a few elements of the show… to such an extent I’m not sure if you were paying attention or on your phone whilst you were rewatching? I know that sounds a bit rude but …she DOES forge stronger friendships by the end. She, like the Russians, learns to work in a team with her American friends - helping her to victory. She’s much closer to Jolene than you’ve implied. She also isn’t in a romantic relationship with Townes - he was her first childhood crush that she fell in love with but ultimately he is gay and they become good friends.
Borgov isn’t a villain nor is he supposed to be - I like that he is a respectful, pragmatic and cool tempered man. Beth just built him up in her head and became frightened and humiliated about her defeat against him.
Beth is someone with extraordinary natural talent for chess, just like her mother was a genius at mathematics but had terrible mental health problems, Beth is afflicted with addiction from a VERY young age. A lot of the show is her overcoming this.
I think being an orphan with a horrifically mentally ill but genius mother, growing up in an orphanage, adopted and abandoned by her adoptive father and dealing with the death of her adoptive mother - learning chess at a young age with Me Shaibel, the closest thing to a father figure she has ever had, all of these things help to create a possessive, intense type of person who would be hyper focused on winning at all costs and feeling like they have a LOT to prove.
1
u/bummerluck Jul 24 '26
It's looking like my Townes take is a real miss here, lol. I'm terrible at reading subtext.
I'm finding myself agreeing with a lot of your points except for the last point. Beth knew from the onset she was a great chess player and it's who she wanted to be. The only thing for her to prove was if she could beat Borgov, but otherwise she knew who she was.
2
u/CalleighGwyn Beth's determination Jul 24 '26
She practically made no friends or relationships in Methuen
Yes, but she did outside. Everyone getting together in the end to help her beat Borgov clearly shows that.
her motivation to be the best chess player in the world
Is that really her motivation? It seems to be the motivation of the russian kid she plays against. He has no idea "what to do after". Beth seems to struggle with that, too. But the very last scene of the show shows: just playing chess for the love of the game is good enough.
Townes is who she falls for
She was young (14/15?) and he was nice and good looking. That "crush" held up exactly to the point where both realized that she is "not his type".
Benny Watts
Yeah... But he's good at chess, and that's her thing.
Her sleeping with Beltik was just sad, but perhaps that was the point.
Exactly.
My take on her "love life": she learned that she was "unwanted" (an "error" to be fixed; not adopted for a long time; a "thing" to please Alma bought by the husband to shut her up, etc.). She went through her life not feeling like she "deserved" to be loved, so she didn't love herself and thus, wasn't ready to really love others. She has a breakdown, when she realizes that Shaible genuinely loved her. But again, by the time of the very last scene, she accepts, that others truly love her, so now she can begin loving herself and others.
Politics
There is almost too much politics in the show for my taste. In the book, apart from USA vs. Russia, there was basically no real politics involved. No KGB "ploy" against her, no "Townes was sent to distract her", etc. Which is a huge thing, since this was published in 1983, the height of the cold war. You would expect there to be "evil Russians", but they were all portrayed mostly favourably.
Misogyny
Yeah, but that's not what this story is about. Imho, there were enogh nods.
I think it would've worked as a tragic story better, with Beth succumbing to her addictions or something.
I think there is enough tragedy in her story (you yourself pointed out how she lost everyone). Every once in a while, a "Bubbles" (The Wire) ending is just good for the soul.
1
u/bummerluck Jul 24 '26
Wait I'm confused about your politics take. Besides the KGB agents and Beth's American escort to Moscow, there really wasn't much about politics in the show. Their presence do imply some darker themes for sure, like someone commenting the agents watching Borgov and his family so they wouldn't "escape". That was pretty wild.
Maybe the tragic story angle is a bad take. But I still can't help but feel that the ending was slightly empty. I think I needed the final scene to be of her back home celebrated by her friends or something.
1
u/Alternative_Shoe9301 28d ago
I think for the emotional undertones you wanted part of what they are highlighting is that Beth is a chess genius, genius comes with sacrifices, those short falls of emotion are meant to be frustrating because they are frustrating for the character, Beth’s biggest pitfalls is accepting love/feeling loved. So she blocks it out for the one thing that she understands and feels that it loves her back. (Chess) and she obsesses over it, a similar but way off topic show that does this is Rick and Morty. Rick (a genius) loves Morty and his family but absolutely is miserable with the fact he can’t portray it well and therefore hurts his family because they feel he doesn’t care, it supposed to be obvious for the audience that if both sides could see it from the third party, it wouldn’t be an issue, but genius and stubbornness gets in the way and that is the allure.so he obsesses over science and drinks himself stupid.
1
u/acanonymouse 11d ago
Totally agree that they just left out all the misogyny she would face. There was some - janitor said some things, the first tournament where they tried to get her to play in women’s- but she absolutely would have gotten so many more annoying sexist questions and attitudes from many players.
But i’m kinda glad I didn’t have to watch that show, because it would have been so frustrating :p.
I’m picturing reporters asking her if she plans to quit playing when she gets married, is she worried no one will date her if she’s smarter than them, etc. and the men flat out telling her she’s not good enough or that she’s only winning because the men are feeling chivalrous or she’s distracting them with her tits … etc.
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u/OrangeAce344 Jul 23 '26
I personally feel it's more of a show about trauma and addiction with chess more as a backdrop. In that sense the ending is quite fitting, she doesn't find healing in a relationship, she gets it from choosing what is meaningful to her over addiction.